Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide

I think he would have evolved his thinking like most of society's educated members. He likely would no longer be against women voting either.

Your malice, on the other hand, has no excuse.

mtierney said:
If he were alive today, what would Chesterton say 88 years later?

“THE next great heresy is going to be simply an attack on morality; and especially on sexual morality. And it is coming, not from a few Socialists surviving from the Fabian Society, but from the living exultant energy of the rich resolved to enjoy themselves at last, with neither Popery nor Puritanism nor Socialism to hold them back… The roots of the new heresy, God knows, are as deep as nature itself, whose flower is the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eye and the pride of life. I say that the man who cannot see this cannot see the signs of the times; cannot see even the skysigns in the street that are the new sort of signs in heaven. The madness of tomorrow is not in Moscow but much more in Manhattan — but most of what was in Broadway is already in Piccadilly.”
~G.K. Chesterton: “G.K.’s Weekly,” June 19, 1926.

How do we look the other way when the discrimination and killings of Christians goes unchallenged?

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/27/john-kerry-needs-a-lesson-on-anti-christian-persecution-in-egypt/

mtierney said:
How do we look the other way when the discrimination and killings of Christians goes unchallenged?
http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/27/john-kerry-needs-a-lesson-on-anti-christian-persecution-in-egypt/

The same way we look this other way when the discrimination and killings of anyone goes unchallenged. Many, many people die each year for their beliefs, the color of their skin, their sex, their sexual orientation. And we look the other way when it's not people "like us."

Pope notes that all Christians, of all sects, races, and nationalities face the threat of annihilation by Islamic terrorists ...

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/07/03/pope-to-christians-put-aside-divisions-amid-persecution/

Perhaps I missed the hyperbole about "fac[ing] the threat of annihilation by Islamic terrorists" in that article.

That's quite an incredible leap you made, attributing that thought to the pope. Annihilation? Really?

What line in the story says what you claim it says?

mtierney said:
Pope notes that all Christians, of all sects, races, and nationalities face the threat of annihilation by Islamic terrorists ...
http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/07/03/pope-to-christians-put-aside-divisions-amid-persecution/

mtierney said:
How do we look the other way when the discrimination and killings of Christians goes unchallenged?
http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/27/john-kerry-needs-a-lesson-on-anti-christian-persecution-in-egypt/

The pope is not crazy. He wouldn't say that.

Perhaps the hyperbole is mine, however the annihilation of Christians is a Islamic terrorists' goal, often stated and demonstrated by them. I can't get the photo of those 20+ young Christian men, dressed in orange jumpsuits, forced to kneel and await their beheadings.

The Pope has made a number of impassioned statements over this threat to "annihilate" Christianity .

Pope Francis latest outreach ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/world/americas/pope-francis-visit-to-latin-america-will-test-his-ability-to-keep-catholics-in-the-fold.html?ref=todayspaper

Religious fanatics want everyone in the World to convert to their religion and in their most extreme form will murder those who refuse. Perhaps in that sense ISIS wishes to "annihilate" all Christians as well as all Shiite Muslims, Moderate Muslims, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc.

The same can be said of other Religious extremists going back to the Catholics of the Spanish Inquisition.

Wonder if what happened in church this morning is some sort of indication of a seismic shift in Catholic awareness? Everyone stayed awake and attentive during the sermon as our priest strongly urged us to pay attention to what is happening to our country.

Contrary to a belief that we are force fed every Sunday on what to think, how to respond, etc., the exact opposite is the norm. Today was different.

The priest strongly pointed out how sanctity of marriage (between a man and a woman only) is being eroded away by our own indifference and our belief that only by accepting such social changes can Catholics avoid being considered as residing in the dark ages - or, worse then that, irrelevant in the 21st century.

It is the very first time I remember hearing the congregation respond to a sermon with enthusiastic applause!

In addition, our Pastor's letter in the weekly bulletin today addressed a similar need for Catholics to stop asking "what difference does it make," or "does it really matter,"or "what's the harm, etc." He stated: "there is, however, a far more dangerous enemy. It is the overwhelming and stifling response of indifference from so many, particularly of those who claim to have faith."

You know, like forWillie Lohman, "attention must be paid."

Did he explain exactly how the sanctity of marriage is being eroded away?

Sounds to me like your Pastor is calling for some kind of action to protect the sanctity of heterosexual marriage. I'm presuming your Pastor is a human and doesn't advocate doing what the bible actually says you're supposed to do to gay people, so what is your plan?

Indeed. What was this priest's final solution?

My personal take on this is that we must educate ourselves in the faith -- and pray more!

mtierney said:
My personal take on this is that we must educate ourselves in the faith -- and pray more!

Good for you. What does that have to do with people who are not Catholic and how they choose to live their lives?

Was Jesus gay? Probably.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/20/was-jesus-gay-probably

ParticleMan said:
Did he explain exactly how the sanctity of marriage is being eroded away?

Yes. By the inertia, complacency, and indifference, we lost sight God's plan and design.

Sounds like your priest is gay, too.

mtierney said:

ParticleMan said:
Did he explain exactly how the sanctity of marriage is being eroded away?

Yes. By the inertia, complacency, and indifference, we lost sight God's plan and design.

But what is being eroded? And how? Eroded means eaten away, possibly until it's gone. Are you (or he) suggesting that allowing same sex marriages will eliminate religious heterosexual marriage? If so, can you explain the logical steps from one to the other?

mtierney said:

ParticleMan said:
Did he explain exactly how the sanctity of marriage is being eroded away?

Yes. By the inertia, complacency, and indifference, we lost sight God's plan and design.

Which is...?

Romans 12:1-2 Offer your body as a willing sacrifice and you will know His plan.

dave said:
Romans 12:1-2 Offer your body as a willing sacrifice and you will know His plan.

Also found in Aztecs 7:5-52.

mtierney said:
...
The priest strongly pointed out how sanctity of marriage (between a man and a woman only) is being eroded away by our own indifference and our belief that only by accepting such social changes can Catholics avoid being considered as residing in the dark ages - or, worse then that, irrelevant in the 21st century.
It is the very first time I remember hearing the congregation respond to a sermon with enthusiastic applause!
...

This makes me sad. A few weeks ago Pope Francis released a major encyclical on humanity's relationship to our planet, an issue that affects all people and our posterity, and the American church's reaction, at best, was a shrug.

A priest talks about same sex marriage, something that has very little direct affect on most people (and for whom it does have the most direct effect, is empirically a positive!), and yet this is what gets an enthusiastic applause?

I dissent from official church teaching on same sex marriage (I support marriage equality), but let's put that aside for a second. Assuming no change on church teaching here, is this really a wise or just prioritization of values?

Or take a look a little upthread on the subject of terrorism. The problem with ISIS isn't that they're Islamic, it's that they're terrorists. Their primary victims are Muslims. But it's not enough that ISIS is killing people to get Republican christians concerned, no, it's the fact that this can now be framed as an attack on "christianity." Once they kill people who matter to Republican identity, then it can be cast in properly political terms...

You mentioned worries of irrelevancy. I'm afraid it's already come to pass. The American catholic church has driven anyone who is not Republican out of the church completely or to the far margins. And what is their reward? Little more than becoming junior members of the Republican coalition. The language remains catholic, but the substance is just politics. That's not a church, that's just Fox news with poorer production values.

You have managed to offend Catholics, christians , republicans and even Fox News with unsubstantiated statements -- I should add democratic voters as well! Wow!

That you suggest republicans saw political value in the ISISkillings of christians is despicable.

Perhaps you should be offended by Republicans using religion to divide people? Meditate on that.

mtierney said:
You have managed to offend Catholics, christians , republicans and even Fox News with unsubstantiated statements -- I should add democratic voters as well! Wow!
That you suggest republicans saw political value in the ISISkillings of christians is despicable.

mtierney said:
Wonder if what happened in church this morning is some sort of indication of a seismic shift in Catholic awareness? Everyone stayed awake and attentive during the sermon as our priest strongly urged us to pay attention to what is happening to our country.
Contrary to a belief that we are force fed every Sunday on what to think, how to respond, etc., the exact opposite is the norm. Today was different.
The priest strongly pointed out how sanctity of marriage (between a man and a woman only) is being eroded away by our own indifference and our belief that only by accepting such social changes can Catholics avoid being considered as residing in the dark ages - or, worse then that, irrelevant in the 21st century.
It is the very first time I remember hearing the congregation respond to a sermon with enthusiastic applause!
In addition, our Pastor's letter in the weekly bulletin today addressed a similar need for Catholics to stop asking "what difference does it make," or "does it really matter,"or "what's the harm, etc." He stated: "there is, however, a far more dangerous enemy. It is the overwhelming and stifling response of indifference from so many, particularly of those who claim to have faith."
You know, like forWillie Lohman, "attention must be paid."

He's right. Thankfullymost Catholics do not listen to priests on current social issues.

mtierney said:
You have managed to offend Catholics, christians , republicans and even Fox News with unsubstantiated statements -- I should add democratic voters as well! Wow!

That you suggest republicans saw political value in the ISISkillings of christians is despicable.

Despicable because it is undoubtedly a true statement. And it is true not of rank and file Republicans but of the political Republicans.

mtierney said:
You have managed to offend Catholics, christians , republicans and even Fox News with unsubstantiated statements -- I should add democratic voters as well! Wow!
That you suggest republicans saw political value in the ISISkillings of christians is despicable.

Well you should be offended; it's a heavy charge I'm making. And one I make with more than a little anger. I've watched American Catholics take Just War theory, meant to restrain humanity's violence and aggression, and turn it into a justification for pre-emptive, elective war. I've watch American Catholics either stand silent, or worse, defend and cheer on, our country's use of torture. I've watch American Catholics engage in vile rhetoric against immigrants (many of whom are Catholic, I might add!). And now you tell me that a priest encouraging focusing on a tiny number of people who just want to lead lives of dignity brings out "enthusiastic applause!"

Is my charge unsubstantiated? Try this thought experiment. If tomorrow, there were no Catholics in America -- everyone magically transferred to the next-closest affiliation -- how would public life in America be different? I submit that nothing would change. Conservatives would still be fighting marriage equality and claiming to be defending religious freedom. Fox would still rile viewers up over terrorism (as long as it's "Islamic"). Donal Trump would still receive cheers for slurs against immigrants. In short, everything would be exactly the same.

That's what you should find offensive -- that the Church in America has renounced her role as a prophetic voice and become just another demographic group within the Republican coalition. So take offense, but maybe think carefully on who the target of your offense ought to be.

Wonderful This American Life episode this week about a Somali Muslim trying to escape his war-torn nation.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/560/abdi-and-the-golden-ticket