Supreme Court & New York's gun carry laws

NJ is next.  God willing.


BarneyGumble said:

NJ is next.  God willing.

I'm an atheist, so I wouldn't presume to know God's will. But I'd hope it didn't mean (s)he wanted NJ to have the same firearm death rate as PA. 

But who knows, maybe it's a vengeful God. 


NY's Sullivan law, a law passed in 1911 and enforced since has been struck down by our supreme court. Every SC from 1911 on until now, even the extremely conservative Lochner era courts, found no problem with that law.

Now it is ruled the law is unconstitutional. 

This is an amazing court. To have found something its many predecessors missed.


ml1 said:

Firearm mortality by state

Interesting to look at NY's color in 10 years.


ml1 said:

Firearm mortality by state

Taking a deep dive into the statistics for each, NJ isn't the worst place to live, if you can afford it. 

edited to remove "maybe" before "NJ."


Does this ruling effect open carry at all?


RTrent said:

Interesting to look at NY's color in 10 years.

isn't it noteworthy how virtually every color coded map of the states, regardless of what measure it's depicting, pretty much looks the same?


Does this just eliminate the need to prove a "special cause" to carry a concealed gun in NY?  Or does it go further?  I'm guessing gun owners will still need a proper license in NY to carry a gun?


GoSlugs said:

Does this ruling effect open carry at all?

No


yahooyahoo said:

Does this just eliminate the need to prove a "special cause" to carry a concealed gun in NY?  Or does it go further?  I'm guessing gun owners will still need a proper license in NY to carry a gun?

That's my understanding.


yahooyahoo said:

Does this just eliminate the need to prove a "special cause" to carry a concealed gun in NY?  Or does it go further?  I'm guessing gun owners will still need a proper license in NY to carry a gun?

it means almost anyone can now get a carry license. Of course the states are trying to write legislation that adheres to this ruling and doesn't allow everyone to carry a concealed weapon anywhere they want.

So we'll see if they can keep concealed weapons out of schools, bars, churches, public transit while still allowing more people licenses. 



max_weisenfeld said:

GoSlugs said:

Does this ruling effect open carry at all?

No

are you sure about that? isn't the whole point of the ruling to loosen open carry restrictions?


I think the main issue was having to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

I'm guessing open carry won't be far behind.

Since they're interpreting "the right to bear arms" there probably shouldn't be any restrictions.  It is pretty straight forward.

Here's the full amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

I guess my question is - is the right tied to regulated militias?  This was proposed by James Madison to allow the creation of civilian forces that can counteract a tyrannical federal government.

Of course when this was written, firearms were a bit different.


drummerboy said:

max_weisenfeld said:

GoSlugs said:

Does this ruling effect open carry at all?

No

are you sure about that? isn't the whole point of the ruling to loosen open carry restrictions?

My apologies. I get it now.

Open carry will take another step.


States can still require a license to carry.

I think that the license requirements should include training, and annual qualifications similar to the requirements for law enforcement. Better yet, set up "DMV-like" bureaus for issuing the licenses, and getting renewals.


So, hang on: this also redefines rules around blades/swords; rocks/stones; slingshots & catapults; various portable explosives (grenades etc); spears, arrows, throwing axes; hunting boomerangs & woomeras & the gaucho throwing bola; pitchforks, clubs, tasers etc BECAUSE back then the definition of ‘arms’ (as shown by Black's Law Dictionary) defines as "anything that a man wears for his defense, or takes in his hands as a weapon.

ETA: my David just reminded me you can use a bullroarer as a weapon. Well, men can; women can’t have anything to do with them, traditionally, not even look at one. 


nohero said:

States can still require a license to carry.

I think that the license requirements should include training, and annual qualifications similar to the requirements for law enforcement. Better yet, set up "DMV-like" bureaus for issuing the licenses, and getting renewals.

I saw Gov. Hochul being interviewed last night. At minimum NYS plans to prohibit concealed weapons in a whole host of locations:  public transit, churches, schools, etc. They'll make it so that outdoors or in one's private vehicle will be about the only legal places to carry a concealed weapon. Road rage incidents with guns in NY State will probably be more common in the future, but I guess the SCOTUS believes that's a price the residents of the state will have to pay.


let the games begin,

Instructions for a Conceal Carry Permit

Contact the Maplewood Detective Bureau at 973) 761-7927" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">(973) 761-7927 and request to speak with the Detective in charge of Firearms or email us at Sgyimoty@twp.Maplewood.nj.us.

https://www.maplewoodnj.gov/government/public-safety/police-department/detective-bureau/firearms-id-information



BarneyGumble said:

let the games begin,

Instructions for a Conceal Carry Permit

Contact the Maplewood Detective Bureau at 973) 761-7927" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">(973) 761-7927 and request to speak with the Detective in charge of Firearms or email us at Sgyimoty@twp.Maplewood.nj.us.

https://www.maplewoodnj.gov/government/public-safety/police-department/detective-bureau/firearms-id-information


I couldn't get beyond the section that asked for an ORI number, but the next section is titled "Purpose." I'm thinking that section is no longer allowed based on the SCOTUS ruling.


yahooyahoo said:

BarneyGumble said:

let the games begin,

Instructions for a Conceal Carry Permit

Contact the Maplewood Detective Bureau at 973) 761-7927" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">(973) 761-7927 and request to speak with the Detective in charge of Firearms or email us at Sgyimoty@twp.Maplewood.nj.us.

https://www.maplewoodnj.gov/government/public-safety/police-department/detective-bureau/firearms-id-information


I couldn't get beyond the section that asked for an ORI number, but the next section is titled "Purpose." I'm thinking that section is no longer allowed based on the SCOTUS ruling.

I suspect they can still ask, they just cannot use the answer to deny


The purpose pretty much has to be shooting people since any given concealed weapon, by definition, can't act as a deterrent.


didnt realize folks open carried pepper spray and pocket knives all these years.


At least a few of the NJ folks I've heard complaining about how difficult it is to buy a firearm and how difficult it was to get a concealed carry permit seem like generally angry people. It was something of a relief to.know such folks weren't walking around all the time with guns. 



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