Letter to my Congressman

I sent this letter to my Congressman, Donald Payne, Jr. yesterday:

Dear Congressman Payne,

I'm a moderate Democrat, a supporter of yours and Nancy Pelosi's. I've previously thought that the Speaker was smart in reigning in some Democrats' desire to begin impeachment proceedings, but I have changed my mind. Democrats must act in the face of President Trump's stonewalling of all congressional attempts to investigate his many transgressions and to discharge the responsibilities that the Constitution assigns to Congress. The Mueller report makes clear that Trump obstructed justice and committed treason by actively accepting assistance from our enemies. I now believe the House must move forward with impeachment proceedings. Yes, winning in 2020 is the major objective we must focus on, but history will judge the Democrats harshly for allowing the president to so wantonly run roughshod over the Constitution. Additionally, avoiding this responsibility makes the Democratic Party look weak and ineffectual, which will not help our nominee next year. I would like to see you actively support moving forward with impeachment and go on the record with media in in our district that the time has come for this serious step.

Thank you.


Please feel free to send it to yours.


I don't think Trump is the real threat to the country, I think the real threat is the conservative movement that is now blending in with the extreme right. The longer Trump stays in office, the more (lasting) damage he will do to them, because the electorate will slowly start to see them for what they really are. I know it's uncomfortable, but I'd rather have a few more years with Trump as President and the Republican party broken up, than go for the quick win. So I don't think we should impeach him at all.

And yes, you are right, he totally obstructed justice. He did it right in front of our eyes, on national television. And then Mueller documented several more cases.


basil said:
I don't think Trump is the real threat to the country, I think the real threat is the conservative movement that is now blending in with the extreme right. The longer Trump stays in office, the more (lasting) damage he will do to them, because the electorate will slowly start to see them for what they really are. I know it's uncomfortable, but I'd rather have a few more years with Trump as President and the Republican party broken up, than go for the quick win. So I don't think we should impeach him at all.
And yes, you are right, he totally obstructed justice. He did it right in front of our eyes, on national television. And then Mueller documented several more cases.

 hoo boy is this wrong.


drummerboy said:


basil said:
I don't think Trump is the real threat to the country, I think the real threat is the conservative movement that is now blending in with the extreme right. The longer Trump stays in office, the more (lasting) damage he will do to them, because the electorate will slowly start to see them for what they really are. I know it's uncomfortable, but I'd rather have a few more years with Trump as President and the Republican party broken up, than go for the quick win. So I don't think we should impeach him at all.
And yes, you are right, he totally obstructed justice. He did it right in front of our eyes, on national television. And then Mueller documented several more cases.
 hoo boy is this wrong.

Care to elaborate?


basil said:


drummerboy said:

basil said:
I don't think Trump is the real threat to the country, I think the real threat is the conservative movement that is now blending in with the extreme right. The longer Trump stays in office, the more (lasting) damage he will do to them, because the electorate will slowly start to see them for what they really are. I know it's uncomfortable, but I'd rather have a few more years with Trump as President and the Republican party broken up, than go for the quick win. So I don't think we should impeach him at all.
And yes, you are right, he totally obstructed justice. He did it right in front of our eyes, on national television. And then Mueller documented several more cases.
 hoo boy is this wrong.
Care to elaborate?

Sure. While Trump certainly has uniquely horrible qualities, he is not doing any damage, lasting or otherwise, to the Republican brand. After two years of his crap, there is not even the slightest inkling that support for Republicans is waning. Why would you think that two more years of his crap would make any difference? He is wildly popular among Republicans - and the place where you need to see waning support for Republicans is among Republicans. And that's not happening.

It's been clear for some time what they really are, and the electorate really doesn't give a sh!t. I don't see them having an epiphany on the subject because of Trump.


Yeah.  I generally assume that everything that comes out of Trump's pie hole is a lie but, when he said he could shoot a guy in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose a percentage point in the polls he was telling the truth.

Just look at mtierney.  When HRC said that Trump's supporters were irredeemable and deplorable she was absolutely right on both counts. Anyone who could be saved has already abandoned him.


All of which just demonstrates the absurdity the dream that Great Uncle Grabby will convert a single Trumpist in the Rust Belt.


I am not sure I agree. First of all the average american (and also republican) is not paying a lot of attention to what is going on in DC, so it will take a while. Second, there is a move (see 2018 mid terms) of moderates and independents away from republican party. Thirdly, so far Trump has had a great economy, wait until that changes and (God forbid) an international crisis breaks out. And lastly, to quote Winston Churchill, "you can always count on Americans to do the right thing, after exhausting all other options" (which apparently is not a quote from Churchill but from some Irish dude, but Churchill sounds a lot better)


I'm counting on some female Republicans and Independents to get corralled by Dems, particularly females, and challenged over the chance of another SCOTUS pick or two.

I'm remembering my impassioned arguments at a holiday dinner after the election. My Trump supporting friend and her family thought I was being hyperbolic. Same reaction by an acquaintance on FB. Then I went down the list, cousins, friends, all thinking it would never be a problem.

Well here we are and things are moving so fast that I'm checking FOX to see if they are covering the laws that are being passed to challenge Roe v Wade. Missouri was to be decided Friday and now postponed till next week. Everyone who is even slightly paying attention, knows its getting real. Justice Thomas just said that they will have to look again at Roe.

I did say some females because there will be those with religious conflicts. But some of us who are for a women's right to control her own body are going to be arguing with friends and family who have sisters, daughters and nieces.

Its time to woman up.


I know there's an active impeachment thread, but I thought I'd share the reply to my message (above) that I got yesterday from Congressman Payne. Let me say  that I find this response very unsatisfying. Your thoughts? 


Dear Soulful Mr T: 

Thank you for contacting me to express your support for an impeachment inquiry of the Trump Administration. As your Representative, I appreciate hearing from you on this important matter. 

  After the conclusion of Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation, Attorney General Barr released a redacted version of the Special Counsel’s 448-page report into the Trump campaign’s possible coordination with Russia.    Critically, the report did not exonerate the President on charges of obstruction of justice, but it did make clear that it is up to Congress to determine if the Trump Administration tried to obstruct justice. 

I believe that Congress should follow the blueprint laid out in the Mueller Report to further investigate possible obstruction of justice charges. In fact, the House Judiciary Committee has already begun investigating the Trump Administration. The Committee has subpoenaed the unredacted version of the Mueller Report and all supporting documents; asked Special Counsel Robert Mueller to testify before the committee; and most recently, has brought civil contempt charges against Attorney General Barr and former White House attorney Don McGahn for their non- responsiveness to Committee issued subpoenas for information. 

  I fully support these efforts to seek the truth. We must get to the bottom of this situation and then based on the factual evidence uncovered, Congress should act. Furthermore, I believe that all options should be kept on the table, including impeachment. I strongly believe that pursuing or abstaining from impeachment should not be a political decision, but the result of a thorough investigation that follows  every lead.  Please know that I share your deep concern about President Trump and his administration. Determining the extent of President Trump’s actions as well as the appropriate response is my job as your Representative, and I intend to do my job.

  Again, thank you for your correspondence.    As a constituent of the 10th Congressional District of New Jersey, I am honored to work on your behalf, and encourage you to contact me regarding your concerns and interests.    Please visit my website at  www.payne.house.gov , where you may sign up for my electronic newsletter and receive periodic updates on my activities to stay informed about the 10th Congressional District of New Jersey.

Sincerely,

Donald M. Payne, Jr.

Member of Congress


The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
I know there's an active impeachment thread, but I thought I'd share the reply to my message (above) that I got yesterday from Congressman Payne. Let me say  that I find this response very unsatisfying. Your thoughts? 

I can't argue with his approach.

[Edited to add]  Although, contrary to what Rep. Payne writes, impeachment is political to the extent that more of the public needs to appreciate the weight of the evidence, to get elected representatives on board.  The hearings taking place now are a means to that.*


* I know there's a whole Mueller report, but not a lot of the public is going to wade through it for the big picture.


I believe one would get an identical letter from any democrat who has not come out for Impeachment. All that would be changed is the Congressional District number and the website. 


nohero said:

[Edited to add]  Although, contrary to what Rep. Payne writes, impeachment is political to the extent that more of the public needs to appreciate the weight of the evidence, to get elected representatives on board.  The hearings taking place now are a means to that.*

More of the public? Impeach when its popular? Turning impeachment into a political circus? The house started Nixon's impeachment hearings with only 19% percent of the public in support. Good thing Pelosi was not speaker then. Nixon's impeachment hearings would not have happened. He would have served out his term.

It was his impeachment hearings that shifted the public from 19% to 57% in favor:

Some say polls argue against impeachment, but polls mean little when the vast majority of people have neither read the Mueller report nor absorbed what it says from in-depth reporting. What the public has heard is the Trump team celebrating exoneration while the Democrats seem uncertain and conflicted. Polls will change if we move forward with an impeachment inquiry, just as they did during Watergate, when support for impeachment rose from 19 percent to 57 percent, per Gallup, within 14 months of the time impeachment hearings began.

We need more evidence? We don't know enough yet?

They have said we need to hold investigative hearings first to gather more information, but the truth is that we know more than enough already from the Mueller report and Trump’s public conduct to begin an impeachment inquiry now. Such a formal inquiry would put the House in the best possible position to defeat Trump’s effort to block access to documents and witnesses, because Congress’s constitutional impeachment power is undisputed. Suggesting we don’t know enough yet only sends a misleading message to the public.

During the 2020 presidential debates Trump will say they knew there was no collusion or obstruction and that is why they did not impeach. To say there was is FAKE NEWS.


The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
Let me say  that I find this response very unsatisfying. Your thoughts? 

 I’d say it’s the Congressman that is unsatisfying. 



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