Fascism and Anti-Fascism

Gaetz scares me. I think he could be a strong candidate in 24. He is not a dumb guy. He knows exactly what he's doing.


Sometimes I think Antifa is anti fascist like China is a People's Republic. 


I think anyone who talks about antifa as if they actually matter is kinda silly.


drummerboy said:

I think anyone who talks about antifa as if they actually matter is kinda silly.

 or if they even exist. At this moment there is probably more evidence that groups claiming to be "antifa" are more likely to be right wingers pretending to be antifa. 


What is the evidence that right wingers are dressing as people you think don't exist?


Where's the evidence that antifa should even be talked about as any kind of serious force?


terp said:

What is the evidence that right wingers are dressing as people you think don't exist?

 they're not "dressing."  They go on social media and say they're "antifa."

Fact check: Antifa Twitter account that called for violence was fake

then there's the imaginary antifa:

41 Cities, Many Sources: How False Antifa Rumors Spread Locally 

Claims about the involvement of anti-fascist activists in protests of racism show the many ways false information spreads inside communities online.

I'm surprised you aren't aware how much of the chatter about "antifa" is phony in one way or another.


Antifa is a "boogeyman" for many right-wing fables.

President Trump has spread some unfounded rumors about antifa to a national audience — including his accusation, without evidence, that a 75-year-old Buffalo protester who was hospitalized after being knocked down by a police officer could be “an antifa provocateur.

But on the local level, the source of the false information has usually been more subtle, and shows the complexity of stunting misinformation online. The bad information often first appears in a Twitter or Facebook post, or a YouTube video there. It is then shared on online spaces like local Facebook groups, the neighborhood social networking app Nextdoor and community texting networks. These posts can fall under the radar of the tech companies and online fact checkers.

“The dynamic is tricky because many times these local groups don’t have much prior awareness of the body of conspiratorial content surrounding some of these topics,” said Renée DiResta, a disinformation researcher at the Stanford Internet Observatory. “The first thing they see is a trusted fellow community member giving them a warning.”

Full article: 41 Cities, Many Sources: How False Antifa Rumors Spread Locally


ml1 said:

terp said:

What is the evidence that right wingers are dressing as people you think don't exist?

 they're not "dressing."  They go on social media and say they're "antifa."

Fact check: Antifa Twitter account that called for violence was fake

then there's the imaginary antifa:

41 Cities, Many Sources: How False Antifa Rumors Spread Locally 

Claims about the involvement of anti-fascist activists in protests of racism show the many ways false information spreads inside communities online.

I'm surprised you aren't aware how much of the chatter about "antifa" is phony in one way or another.

He is just trolling you. Terp is a libertarian. He is yet to come up with a successful example of whatever the heck he is for. Until that time feel free to just ignore him.


You claim more trolls, basil, than a mechanical claw in a boardwalk arcade.


It's not "trolling" if you actually believe it or don't know all the facts.


nohero said:

It's not "trolling" if you actually believe it or don't know all the facts.

 this is true. Although I think I get trolled from time to time because a) there are a few people whom I suspect see my handle and avatar and just disagree reflexively and b) I bring it on myself by how often I ask for other people to show evidence for their claims.  So if I make a commentary on that doesn't cite studies or other articles, it's a reflexive -- "where's your evidence"?  Which I guess is only fair turnabout.


ml1 said:

terp said:

What is the evidence that right wingers are dressing as people you think don't exist?

 they're not "dressing."  They go on social media and say they're "antifa."

Fact check: Antifa Twitter account that called for violence was fake

then there's the imaginary antifa:

41 Cities, Many Sources: How False Antifa Rumors Spread Locally 

Claims about the involvement of anti-fascist activists in protests of racism show the many ways false information spreads inside communities online.

I'm surprised you aren't aware how much of the chatter about "antifa" is phony in one way or another.

Thanks for posting.   We live in the age of propaganda.  It is more and more difficult to understand what is going on.  Stunts like this certainly don't help.

I definitely think Antifa exists in some form.  At least some elements of Antifa are violent.  See the Andy Ngo incident where he posed no physical threat but ended up with a brain hemorrhage.  That is not to excuse violence by any other party.  I'm anti-violence regardless of who is involved with few exceptions (self defense, or defense of others being physically attacked).


terp said:

Thanks for posting.   We live in the age of propaganda.  It is more and more difficult to understand what is going on.  Stunts like this certainly don't help.

I definitely think Antifa exists in some form.  At least some elements of Antifa are violent.  See the Andy Ngo incident where he posed no physical threat but ended up with a brain hemorrhage.  That is not to excuse violence by any other party.  I'm anti-violence regardless of who is involved with few exceptions (self defense, or defense of others being physically attacked).

 even if there are incidents, there isn't any evidence that there is a widespread organized "antifa." There's more evidence of hype than any actual presence. 


I'm not saying that they should be labeled a terrorist group or the threat isn't being overblown or anything like that. 


but even presenting "antifa" as if it's some sort of real entity instead of scattered handfuls of people is a distraction from the very real and widespread problems of systemic racism, policy brutality, and the actual existence of right wing terror groups.  It's presented by people on the right as if it's some equivalent and equal force to right wing extremism.  And it surely is not.


ml1 said:

but even presenting "antifa" as if it's some sort of real entity instead of scattered handfuls of people is a distraction from the very real and widespread problems of systemic racism, policy brutality, and the actual existence of right wing terror groups.  It's presented by people on the right as if it's some equivalent and equal force to right wing extremism.  And it surely is not.

It's not just "people on the right".  It's the official position of the Attorney General of the United States.  And by the way, you're supposed to capitalize "Antifa" (because that makes it look like a real, official organization).  It's set out in "Attorney General William P. Barr's Statement on Riots and Domestic Terrorism":

"To identify criminal organizers and instigators, and to coordinate federal resources with our state and local partners, federal law enforcement is using our existing network of 56 regional FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF).

"The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”



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