Decentralized government experiment

This is not going to end well

hoops said:

This is not going to end well

Libertarian experiments never do

basil said:

hoops said:

This is not going to end well

Libertarian experiments never do

 Would terp consider this a liberatarian experiment?

PVW said:

basil said:

hoops said:

This is not going to end well

Libertarian experiments never do

 Would terp consider this a liberatarian experiment?

I asked him for some examples of successful libertarian nations / societies a while ago, he never responded. Probably because it is a trick question, because there aren't any. Libertarians are very good in explaining what they are against, they never tell you what should replace it. 

Why so much negativity? To me it's a positive experiment.

PVW said:

Curious on terp's take on this:

Free Food, Free Speech and Free of Police: Inside Seattle’s ‘Autonomous Zone’ (NYT)


I'll be curious to see a few things:
- how the official government, from the municipal to state, respond
- how long this lasts, and how successfully the participants manage to navigate the cross-currents of different interests among themselves
- what innovations and ideas mainstream government can take from this

 The idea for the police chief to abandon its police station, permitting protestors to have their own “Seattle Peoples Department” headquarters, has to win a stupid prize.  The chief was quoted as saying, she saw it as a move toward deescalation!

I watch too many cop shop series. My first thought was did the police remove arrest records, physical evidence from crime scenes, all police personnel records, etc. Or is everything today stored in the iCloud? How about weapons and the keys to police cars?

Wasn’t the COVID-19 virus first noted in the U.S. in our Pacific Northwest?

mtierney said:

PVW said:

Curious on terp's take on this:

Free Food, Free Speech and Free of Police: Inside Seattle’s ‘Autonomous Zone’ (NYT)


I'll be curious to see a few things:
- how the official government, from the municipal to state, respond
- how long this lasts, and how successfully the participants manage to navigate the cross-currents of different interests among themselves
- what innovations and ideas mainstream government can take from this

 The idea for the police chief to abandon its police station, permitting protestors to have their own “Seattle Peoples Department” headquarters, has to win a stupid prize.  The chief was quoted as saying, she saw it as a move toward deescalation!

I watch too many cop shop series. My first thought was did the police remove arrest records, physical evidence from crime scenes, all police personnel records, etc. Or is everything today stored in the iCloud? How about weapons and the keys to police cars?

Wasn’t the COVID-19 virus first noted in the U.S. in our Pacific Northwest?

 you really do find the dumbest cartoons I've ever seen.  it's uncanny.

Why you need to visit Christiania before you die

The Dictator of China is in favor of de-funding police and emptying jails. Tell that to the people of Hong Kong.

Are you insane?

STANV said:

The Dictator of China is in favor of de-funding police and emptying jails. Tell that to the people of Hong Kong.

Are you insane?

 Of course, not on his turf — but, in America, he sees the whole movement as a win-win for him.  

But, you surely figured that out for yourself.

ml1 said:

 you really do find the dumbest cartoons I've ever seen.  it's uncanny.

 
Not really, no special powers. I am not possessed, not too sure about my cat, however!

mtierney said: 

The idea for the police chief to abandon its police station, permitting protestors to have their own “Seattle Peoples Department” headquarters, has to win a stupid prize.  The chief was quoted as saying, she saw it as a move toward deescalation!

No. The article reported that the police chief “said in a video message on Thursday that the decision to leave the police station was not hers and that she was angry about how it developed.”

The article I read definitely gave her the “credit”. Heads will roll!

mtierney said:

The article I read definitely gave her the “credit”. Heads will roll!

 Was it the same article where you got this? 

mtierney said:

 The idea for the police chief to abandon its police station, permitting protestors to have their own “Seattle Peoples Department” headquarters, has to win a stupid prize.  The chief was quoted as saying, she saw it as a move toward deescalation!

I watch too many cop shop series. My first thought was did the police remove arrest records, physical evidence from crime scenes, all police personnel records, etc. Or is everything today stored in the iCloud? How about weapons and the keys to police cars?

Read the article posted at the start of the thread, instead of tossing in non-facts. 

STANV said:

Why so much negativity? To me it's a positive experiment.

Sorry, should have been clearer, my negative comments were about libertarianism, not about what is going on in Seattle, which essentially is a creative way to deescalate the situation around the police station there.

mtierney said:

 Of course, not on his turf — but, in America, he sees the whole movement as a win-win for him.  

But, you surely figured that out for yourself.

 That's absurd. How does China benefit? 

Cash bail keeps poor people in jail for long terms before trial even for some minor offenses. Doing away with that does not benefit China and if China did away with it, it would not benefit us. That is also true of allowing people in prison to vote. Of course China doesn't let anybody really vote. If they did it would not hurt us.

The other things listed are not championed by anyone. 

STANV said:

mtierney said:

 Of course, not on his turf — but, in America, he sees the whole movement as a win-win for him.  

But, you surely figured that out for yourself.

 That's absurd. How does China benefit? 

Why did you bother?  Ms. Mtierney brings up COVID-19 and the Chinese leader, which is probably similar to the GOP nonsense about the virus possibly being a Chinese plot.

I don’t know for sure, but my feminine intuition says China would love a weakened, distracted America.

mtierney said:

I don’t know for sure, but my feminine intuition says China would love a weakened, distracted America.

 then why would they campaign for Biden when Trump has spent nearly four years weakening and distracting America?  Reelecting Trump would achieve those goals.  the cartoon makes zero sense.

ml1 said:

mtierney said:

I don’t know for sure, but my feminine intuition says China would love a weakened, distracted America.

 then why would they campaign for Biden when Trump has spent nearly four years weakening and distracting America?  Reelecting Trump would achieve those goals.  the cartoon makes zero sense.

Xi probably sent Putin a "Thank you" card. 

mtierney said:

I don’t know for sure, but my feminine intuition says China would love a weakened, distracted America.

And what do you think Trump has given us so far?

ml1 said:

 then why would they campaign for Biden when Trump has spent nearly four years weakening and distracting America?  Reelecting Trump would achieve those goals.  the cartoon makes zero sense.

 To you, perhaps.
 China might see Trump a likely winner, and they do not like the President. America might appear weak due to the failed  Democratic effort to change the results of 2016.  What a waste of time and resources!  what a tremendous source of distraction for the whole nation!

Maybe, just maybe, had the Impeachment debacle, which wound down in February,  not taken place, we might have seen the COVID threat way before March 15th.

Impeachment was a debacle because of the actions of McConnell and the Republican Senate. Who ever heard of a trial without witnesses? If Trump had been removed from office there would have been fewer casualties of COVID 19 and far less disruption of our Alliances which weakened us and strengthened China and Russia. 

And, removing Trump would have not actually changed the results of the 2016 election, although that would have been a good thing, because, aside from the fact that Clinton actually won, Pence would have become President. His policies might not have been much different than Trump's but I can't imagine him being so narcissistic  or incompetent.

Let me note further that the idea that campaigning for reform of the Police, and the lives and dignity of Black People will aid the foreign enemies of America is the same argument that Segregationists and their apologists used against the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s and 60s.

I wonder what Ms. Mtierney's position was then. 

mtierney said:

 To you, perhaps.
 China might see Trump a likely winner, and they do not like the President. America might appear weak due to the failed  Democratic effort to change the results of 2016.  What a waste of time and resources!  what a tremendous source of distraction for the whole nation!

Maybe, just maybe, had the Impeachment debacle, which wound down in February,  not taken place, we might have seen the COVID threat way before March 15th.

 do you know the date of the impeachment acquittal?  It was February 5.  It's asinine of you to continue to assert that the impeachment distracted Trump from COVID-19 all through the month of February and half way through March when the whole thing was over a few days into February.

You know what distracted him?  His obsession with the DJA, and his idiotic rallies, which he continued to hold throughout February.

STANV said:

Impeachment was a debacle because of the actions of McConnell and the Republican Senate. Who ever heard of a trial without witnesses? If Trump had been removed from office there would have been fewer casualties of COVID 19 and far less disruption of our Alliances which weakened us and strengthened China and Russia. 

And, removing Trump would have not actually changed the results of the 2016 election, although that would have been a good thing, because, aside from the fact that Clinton actually won, Pence would have become President. His policies might not have been much different than Trump's but I can't imagine him being so narcissistic  or incompetent.

Let me note further that the idea that campaigning for reform of the Police, and the lives and dignity of Black People will aid the foreign enemies of America is the same argument that Segregationists and their apologists used against the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s and 60s.

I wonder what Ms. Mtierney's position was then. 

 why do those colored people have to be so disruptive?

ml1 said:

STANV said:

Impeachment was a debacle because of the actions of McConnell and the Republican Senate. Who ever heard of a trial without witnesses? If Trump had been removed from office there would have been fewer casualties of COVID 19 and far less disruption of our Alliances which weakened us and strengthened China and Russia. 

And, removing Trump would have not actually changed the results of the 2016 election, although that would have been a good thing, because, aside from the fact that Clinton actually won, Pence would have become President. His policies might not have been much different than Trump's but I can't imagine him being so narcissistic  or incompetent.

Let me note further that the idea that campaigning for reform of the Police, and the lives and dignity of Black People will aid the foreign enemies of America is the same argument that Segregationists and their apologists used against the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s and 60s.

I wonder what Ms. Mtierney's position was then. 

 why do those colored people have to be so disruptive?

 Yeah, they should just take a knee if they want to protest.

To Stav’s thought, I was living and working in Washington in the late ‘50s and witnessed, first hand, segregation, saw separate washrooms, water fountains, etc etc. It was so unfair to my New York City  eyes, but I didn’t do, or know how to, protest in my new surroundings. I have grown up since then — a lot. 

In the late ‘50s - early ‘60s, We were living in Newark — Ivy Hill apartments to be precise. We moved into our first home in Maplewood in 1962. I was in the maternity wing at Orange Memorial in July, 1967 — back then, moms and babies stayed a week — the week the rioting broke out in Newark. 

With now four children under five, in a time of assignations, the National  Guard on Springfield Ave, etc.  I remember being scared for my family.  We stayed in Maplewood, but saw many neighbors leave.

By 1973, we realized we needed a bigger house, and bought a second house in 1973, also in Maplewood, where we remained until 2010.

mtierney said:

To Stav’s thought, I was living and working in Washington in the late ‘50s and witnessed, first hand, segregation, saw separate washrooms, water fountains, etc etc. It was so unfair to my New York City  eyes, but I didn’t do, or know how to, protest in my new surroundings. I have grown up since then — a lot. 

In the late ‘50s - early ‘60s, We were living in Newark — Ivy Hill apartments to be precise. We moved into our first home in Maplewood in 1962. I was in the maternity wing at Orange Memorial in July, 1967 — back then, moms and babies stayed a week — the week the rioting broke out in Newark. 

With now four children under five, in a time of assignations, the National  Guard on Springfield Ave, etc.  I remember being scared for my family.  We stayed in Maplewood, but saw many neighbors leave.

By 1973, we realized we needed a bigger house, and bought a second house in 1973, also in Maplewood, where we remained until 2010.

A few questions to consider (no need to reply):
- When you grew up in Brooklyn, how many of your neighbors were black? Why do think that was?

- I don't know what the Ivy Hill neighborhood in Newark was like at the time, but same question -- how many of your neighbors were black?

- When the rioting broke out in Newark, and you were scared for your family, how do you suppose families living in Newark felt? When your neighbors left, were did they go? Why do you suppose black parents, who were scared for their families, didn't follow your neighbors to the same towns?

When you moved to a bigger house in 1973, did you find you had black neighbors who also moved to your new neighborhood as they also realized they needed a bigger house? Why do you think that was?

Again, no need to answer, just some things to consider.

it won' embed, but you gotta click on this, especially Monty Python fans.

https://twitter.com/dandrezner/status/1271905224798732288?s=20