America: The Farewell Tour

Chris Hedges has a new book out called "America: The Farewell Tour," and it's bleak, even by Chris Hedges standards which are very, very bleak. I still want to read it.  He explains this in terms of the failing American empire, late stage capitalism, and destroyed humanity;  expressed  through close encounters with disparaging Americans. He wants to jolt people into action. Here is a better written description by the publisher: http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/America-The-Farewell-Tour/Chris-Hedges/9781501152672

And here is Hedges presenting his ideas as expressed in the book.  He speaks for about 30 minutes and then takes questions from a traumatized audience.

With those credentials - he must have a show on RT?

jamie said:
With those credentials - he must have a show on RT?

 Which credentials?  The Pulitzer Prize?  The job at the New York Times? The many years as a war correspondent?  The degree from Harvard Divinity School?  The teaching job in a prison?

I just meant with someone writing about: 

failing American empire, late stage capitalism, and destroyed humanity; expressed through close encounters with disparaging Americans

 - he would be an excellent candidate to have a show with RT - this is the type of person that they love to hire.  I could see him being a regular on Sputnik news also.

\

jamie said:
I just meant with someone writing about: 

failing American empire, late stage capitalism, and destroyed humanity; expressed through close encounters with disparaging Americans

 - he would be an excellent candidate to have a show with RT - this is the type of person that they love to hire.  I could see him being a regular on Sputnik news also.

 Stop acting like you don't know about his show On Contact.  Why don't you listen to what he says and comment on his ideas?  I thought that was how it is supposed to be done around here.  

So the Hedges video is over an hour long.  

If I'm not spending over an hour to watch it, could you summarize what his proposed solutions are?

I'm not asking for his litany of problems, concerns, and parade of horribles.  I'm asking what he says we are to do.  Is there a summary of that part of his argument?

I didn't know that they were still together and touring.  I used to love A Horse With No Name but over time I grew to hate it.

Nan, what was your favorite song?

I still like Ventura Highway.

Well I’ll try to watch Chris one day, but my time gets so damn pressed
That it may not be till Monday, once I take mtierney’s test
I ain’t ready for Nekrasov, but I do agree it’s fine
When these MOL threads sure can be a grind

.

jamie said:
With those credentials - he must have a show on RT?

 Who is RT?

He speaks for about 30 minutes and then takes questions from a traumatized audience.

I love this.

Tom_Reingold said:

jamie said:
With those credentials - he must have a show on RT?

 Who is RT?

 RT is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

It's where all of nan's heroes have a voice.

Russia loves taking those who speak out against our democracy and gives them a major platform.

jamie said:

Tom_Reingold said:

jamie said:
With those credentials - he must have a show on RT?

 Who is RT?

 RT is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

It's where all of nan's heroes have a voice.
Russia loves taking those who speak out against our democracy and gives them a major platform.

 Isn't Al Jazeera news of the same ilk as RT and, possibly, more anti-Western?

Just saying, state sponsored propaganda is not solely a phenomenon of RT but similar narratives are being spun by Al Jazeera (owned by the government of Qatar).  Which means that you need to be very cynical when hearing/viewing the world news broadcast by RT or AL Jazeera.  As both have an ideological narrative to promote (and both broadcaster's narratives are anti-Western).

To answer Jamie's question about solutions, he doesn't have many. A couple of people ask him about what they can do and why he is on RT and he answers those questions (he was in the middle of answering those when my computer crashed, so I didn't catch what he actually said to the audience on all of it). 

Needless to say, if you want to hear a prophecy of doom, this is for you. I actually enjoyed it, as I'm a fan of dystopian cyberpunk futures and am currently working on a series of books which deal with a world rebuilding after a massive world-wide Durkheimian Anomie, so his vision of the future falls right into my wheelhouse.

nohero said:
So the Hedges video is over an hour long.  
If I'm not spending over an hour to watch it, could you summarize what his proposed solutions are?
I'm not asking for his litany of problems, concerns, and parade of horribles.  I'm asking what he says we are to do.  Is there a summary of that part of his argument?

 Life sucks and we are all going to die. That's the summary of his diagnosis as well as his remedy.

ridski said:
 A couple of people ask him about what they can do and why he is on RT and he answers those questions (he was in the middle of answering those when my computer crashed, so I didn't catch what he actually said to the audience on all of it). 

 Coincidence? I don't think so.

DaveSchmidt said:
Well I’ll try to watch Chris one day, but my time gets so damn pressed
That it may not be till Monday, once I take mtierney’s test
I ain’t ready for Nekrasov, but I do agree it’s fine
When these MOL threads sure can be a grind

 She's giving a test or taking a test?

Who is Nekrasov? Is that part of the test?

I listened to it.  Interesting ideas a couple of which is the coziness of government with corporations and the agenda of the christian right entwining itself with the state and that until the hidden aristocracy 'fear', no change will happen.  Definitely the 'prophecy of doom' spiel is over the top. Agree with Ridski that there were no pragmatic ideas for solutions.  I think I may watch the film Brazil again.

RealityForAll said:

jamie said:

RT is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

It's where all of nan's heroes have a voice.
Russia loves taking those who speak out against our democracy and gives them a major platform.

 Isn't Al Jazeera news of the same ilk as RT and, possibly, more anti-Western?

 Whether they are or not is beside the point, since the statement was an accurate one about RT.

gerritn said:

nohero said:
So the Hedges video is over an hour long.  
If I'm not spending over an hour to watch it, could you summarize what his proposed solutions are?
I'm not asking for his litany of problems, concerns, and parade of horribles.  I'm asking what he says we are to do.  Is there a summary of that part of his argument?

 Life sucks and we are all going to die. That's the summary of his diagnosis as well as his remedy.

 So it's Ragnarok, no hope of avoiding doom.

[Edited to add] But seriously, what's the point of listening to him, unless his nihilism is a useful or even viable political philosophy for 21st Century America.

nohero said:
So the Hedges video is over an hour long.  
If I'm not spending over an hour to watch it, could you summarize what his proposed solutions are?
I'm not asking for his litany of problems, concerns, and parade of horribles.  I'm asking what he says we are to do.  Is there a summary of that part of his argument?

 You can just watch about 30 minutes to hear him speak before questions.

I think it is interesting that you and some others don't consider this valid unless there are solutions offered.  It reminds me of when I worked in the corporate world where the culture demanded that anyone informing anyone of a problem had to also include suggested solutions.  Not having the thing at least half-way solved by the time of omission meant you were just dumping your problems on someone else and not taking responsibility and making more work for your boss who already had enough on his plate.  

But, the corporate world is not the real world where nature and oppression don't give a crap what you have to say about anything. It's all just meaningless chatter.  So, yeah, Chris Hedges just dumps doomsday at our door and whether we like it or not he might be right.  You can't say he is wrong just because there is no solution. He does encourage people to fight back, but the resistance he is talking about is much different than Any Blue Will Do fighting back or voter shaming.  

dave23 said:
He speaks for about 30 minutes and then takes questions from a traumatized audience.
I love this.

 Chris Hedges is probably not fun at parties. But who knows.

jamie said:

Tom_Reingold said:

jamie said:
With those credentials - he must have a show on RT?

 Who is RT?

 RT is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

It's where all of nan's heroes have a voice.
Russia loves taking those who speak out against our democracy and gives them a major platform.

 This is an unfair portrayal of non-Western media, especially related to "out democracy" which is one of the big problems since we really don't have one.  Chris Hedges used to work at the New York Times, but they let him go when he would not spout the required propaganda about the Iraq war.  Ed Schultz had a similar story and others.  Mainstream media used to feature lots of different voices such as Noam Chomsky, and Ralph Nader and others.  

Now most of the talking head "experts" are ex-military or CIA personal or conservative think tanks or establishment Democrats.  You never see Noam Chomsky  or Glen Greenwald on CNN or MSNBC anymore (sometimes FOX news is better because they will bring on Progressives).  So, these people have to go to other outlets to find jobs, and non-Western media sometimes hires them.  Chris Hedges RT program, On Contact, is a terrific program, better than much of the crap on mainstream media.  He is 1000x better than Jake Tapper or Chuck Todd.  The late Ed Schultz also did a great job on RT.  These people were the same before they were on RT, but RT allowed them to stay on the air.  What you should be asking is not why non-Western media expresses negative views about the US, but why US media does not.  

He's good, but he seems to be crushing hard on Noam Chomsky.

ridski said:
He's good, but he seems to be crushing hard on Noam Chomsky.

 He does emphasize Chomsky's influence on this book, but there are others he cites as admirable, especially Sheldon Wolin who he did a long interview with just before Wolin died. I had only listened to a small part of this, but perhaps I will go back and hear the whole thing thanks to Hedges' recommendation:

lord_pabulum said:
 I think I may watch the film Brazil again.

 The name's Buttle.

dave23 said:

lord_pabulum said:
 I think I may watch the film Brazil again.

 The name's Buttle.

 Salt?

nan said:

ridski said:
He's good, but he seems to be crushing hard on Noam Chomsky.

 He does emphasize Chomsky's influence on this book, but there are others he cites as admirable, especially Sheldon Wolin who he did a long interview with just before Wolin died. I had only listened to a small part of this, but perhaps I will go back and hear the whole thing thanks to Hedges' recommendation:

 LONG interview. I might try to listen to it tomorrow, while I’m working. He is also extremely fond of Reingold Niebuhr. I see nothing wrong with any of this, but a few good men, I have learned, do not define a reality. It would be like relying on Tacitus, Cicero and Seneca’s writings to describe the Roman experience. One (or two, or three) sociologist(s) cannot see all of the connections that encompass the events of now and see where they will affect the future. 

I’m often seen as a pessimist, when it comes to the future. I write a lot about dystopian futures, where war is prevalent. But in reality, many of the worlds I envision still have humans in a prominent role, spread across the universe, or at least, surviving the global Durkheimian Anomie.

I do wonder where Hedges (remember I have yet to watch the above 3 hour interview) stands in terms of whether we are beyond redemption has a species. I write dystopian future fiction yet believe we are not. No matter how awful the world is, we improvise, we adapt, we overcome. In the words of Willam Gibson when it came to technology, “The Street find its own uses.” As a species, we will figure it out. Our crises will be man-made and man-fixed. If not, it will be death of man.