Stanchion Sign

Perhaps this isn't the right name but I'm talking about the signs at crosswalks. I know drivers have to be cautious and the pedestrian has the right of way. Nevertheless,the sign is also a safety hazard perched in the middle of the street. I did notice one on Ridgewood Rd placed on the side of the road. That makes sense. Anyone have a problem with this?

I think the signs are fine from the direct (front/back) approach. The issue is that at night, you cannot see the signs when approaching from the side. There is no side panel, just space between the two thin signs that headlights pass right through. 

I even was very familiar with one of these signs just down the block from me (I carried it back after it was hit several times, and ended up near my house), and yet I still accidentally ran it over. When I took a left, cutting across the middle of the crosswalk, I approached it from the side (cross street). Due to the location of the cross street and the sign angle, it was invisible until I was inches from it. And apparently from the number of times it has been run over, and dragged by cars down the block, it's invisible from the side to many drivers.

I don't know if there is something they can put on for side panels so headlights have something to reflect off of from a side approach?

These signs are an issue where they are placed in areas where street parking takes place (example is Maplecrest Park).  Sometimes the space between the sign and a parked vehicle is very narrow.

They are a goddammed traffic hazard. Well meaning, yes. 

---- and they may be illegal. I refer to the F.H.A. ruling that painting a blue line in the middle of two yellow lines is illegal. If that is illegal, so must these damn signs be illegal.

On Sunday mornings, try making a right hand turn from Parker, onto Prospect. There are cars parked for church. So you move left to avoid the cars and the sign is facing you.... quick bear right and hope you don't hit either.  This becomes more difficult when the sign is knocked out of place by a previous driver and is now in the lane.  

Last night, one on Prospect/Tuscan was knocked off place and into the roadway. 

Alls I know is if I hit one, I will sue for damages to my car.

I have to admit I ran into one on Woodland Road the other day. It was side ways and somehow I didn't see it. Once it was hit it bounced back quickly. I did have minor scratches on my fender which I had repaired. Somehow I just don't think these signs are the solution.

I hate them!  Not only a hazard to turning vehicles, what's much worse are the idiot pedestrians who now feel empowered to simply walk into the street without stopping.

I've seen mothers with kids just keep talking, holding the kids hand, and walk without stopping at the curb.   Adults who almost seem to make a game of it - walk out while I'm driving speed limit, just on the other side of the intersection, with, what, 40' to come to a stop from 35mph.  Awful

It is the driver's responsibility to take proper caution when approaching a pedestrian crosswalk. The pedestrian does not need to wait. Plus I think in most places where you would find cross walks the speed limit is lower than 35.

"The driver of a vehicle must stop and stay stopped for a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk,"

http://www.nj.gov/oag/hts/pedestrian.html

What will it take to get drivers to respect pedestrians' rights?

FYI, all of Valley Street is now 25 MPH.

Wyoming is still 35 mph.

The area around the Millburn Wyoming School it is 25.

Yes, true what everyone has said about the driver's responsibilities, but...

If the children are young enough to be holding hands, the parent should be modeling stopping at the curb to look for traffic.  Makes me nuts, as do parents who cross in the middle of the block with their little ones (without a crosswalk).

Here lies the body of William Jay 
Who died maintaining his right of way -
He was right, dead right, as he walked along,
But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.'

Or even looking. These people are tool walkers.

peteglider said:

I hate them!  Not only a hazard to turning vehicles, what's much worse are the idiot pedestrians who now feel empowered to simply walk into the street without stopping.

Is this really a rant about pedestrians who assert their right of way? I think the OP was complaining about the type of speed softening efforts not their intent.

Over the summer we spent some time on an island in Maine that had two interesting speed reducing interventions that were very successful. 

One home had chickens that wandered around their yard and into the road and we slowed down every time we passed.

On another part of the island two homes had placed mannequins near the entrance to their driveway and changed the outfits on them weekly.

Everyone slowed down to see what crazy outfits the mannequins had on.

It made me think about our suburban speeding problems and the "speed bumps" and Stanchion signs we've erected. Maybe things are simpler on an island, but I can't say they didn't work.

It's not about the desire to improve pedestrian safety. Its that the stanchions are causing their own problems. At least once per week, I see a stanchion that is off its location between the yellow lines. It is usually IN the traffic lane. That means it was a traffic obstruction that became a traffic hazard. Now, if I see at lease one per week, how many are hit that I do not see? How many "hits" resulted in damage to someone's car?

39:4-183.9 indicates the state requires minimum dimensions of a sign that is going to control traffic. I doubt the stanchions meet the requirement.

Again, if we are serious about pedestrian safety, buy more of the signs like the one at the corner of Parkwood and place it on the berm and not in the middle of the kfcungi street.

Forget the thread drift regarding pedestrian safety for a moment, but sounds to me like those drivers who are hitting the signs either can't drive, or have issues with the dimensions of their own vehicles.

Similar to when I am driving down Prospect or Parker, and see vehicles cross a double yellow when they come upon a car parked at the curb of a home on Prospect\Parker as if they are worried they will hit the parked car. Totally unnecessary.

prerak77 said:

Similar to when I am driving down Prospect or Parker, and see vehicles cross a double yellow when they come upon a car parked at the curb of a home on Prospect\Parker as if they are worried they will hit the parked car. Totally unnecessary.

On the flip side, I saw a moving minivan knock a side-view mirror off of a car parked in front of the church on Prospect/Parker. That moving minivan did need to move over more.

sprout said:

prerak77 said:

Similar to when I am driving down Prospect or Parker, and see vehicles cross a double yellow when they come upon a car parked at the curb of a home on Prospect\Parker as if they are worried they will hit the parked car. Totally unnecessary.

On the flip side, I saw a moving minivan knock a side-view mirror off of a car parked in front of the church on Prospect/Parker. That moving minivan did need to move over more.

Didn't you admit to hitting one of the signs at night? Perhaps you shouldn't be driving at night.

prerak77 said:

...

Didn't you admit to hitting one of the signs at night? Perhaps you shouldn't be driving at night.

If I recall, the circumstances were that it was nighttime. The sign had been hit and re positioned so that only the narrow sides of the sign were facing traffic. If so, there would have been no reflective signage visible to any driver. 

----difficult to avoid hitting what you can't see.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

prerak77 said:

...

Didn't you admit to hitting one of the signs at night? Perhaps you shouldn't be driving at night.

If I recall, the circumstances were that it was nighttime. The sign had been hit and re positioned so that only the narrow sides of the sign were facing traffic. If so, there would have been no reflective signage visible to any driver. 




----difficult to avoid hitting what you can't see.

An if that was a pedestrian at night? Not all joggers, dog walkers, kids, deers, etc wear those flashing blinkers.

You have headlights, and at 25-30mph should be able to see very far ahead. Even if that sign was turned, its still bright yellow\green.

Not sure what that has to do with the above (I wasn't the one who hit the mirror in case that's what you thought I said). 

I'd love NOT to drive at night, but fortunately, other than that sign, I haven't hit anything else. (Hopefully saying this won't be jinxing myself).

prerak77 said:

An if that was a pedestrian at night? Not all joggers, dog walkers, kids, deers, etc wear those flashing blinkers.

You have headlights, and at 25-30mph should be able to see very far ahead. Even if that sign was turned, its still bright yellow\green.

I don't mind the signs, I just think the thin side could use a panel (maybe tape) for headlights to have something to bounce off of. It's not bright yellow/green from the side. It's only two sets of 1/8" width of sign, and hollow in between.

Keep in mind that the sign has no motion, and motion is what your eyes are most able to detect. This makes it different from a pedestrian, which tends to have motion.  (It's also different in that pedestrians tend to have more than 1/8" of thickness for headlights to reflect off of).

It's not about hitting the parked car, it's about hitting a car door if it opens or hitting someone getting out of the car or emerging from in between cars.

prerak77 said:

Forget the thread drift regarding pedestrian safety for a moment, but sounds to me like those drivers who are hitting the signs either can't drive, or have issues with the dimensions of their own vehicles.


Similar to when I am driving down Prospect or Parker, and see vehicles cross a double yellow when they come upon a car parked at the curb of a home on Prospect\Parker as if they are worried they will hit the parked car. Totally unnecessary.

yahooyahoo said:

It's not about hitting the parked car, it's about hitting a car door if it opens or hitting someone getting out of the car or emerging from in between cars.

prerak77 said:

Forget the thread drift regarding pedestrian safety for a moment, but sounds to me like those drivers who are hitting the signs either can't drive, or have issues with the dimensions of their own vehicles.


Similar to when I am driving down Prospect or Parker, and see vehicles cross a double yellow when they come upon a car parked at the curb of a home on Prospect\Parker as if they are worried they will hit the parked car. Totally unnecessary.

There is no one in the car, easily seen thru the rear window. I can see that when I am behind the car that crosses over, and at 25-30mph you are crawling down the road, can easily see, or slow down if the need arises, or are you perhaps going faster?

Additionally usually the cars that do this, do it while there may be another car oncoming.

prerak77 said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

....

.... Even if that sign was turned, its still bright yellow\green.

No it ain't. If its turned with its side facing the driver, you see nothing.

I'm with Tom.  Even on Springfield Ave with the signs that have the flashing LED lights, people do not stop for pedestrians...only enforcement and hitting people in the wallet will make it happen.

Tom_Reingold said:

What will it take to get drivers to respect pedestrians' rights?

prerak77 said:

yahooyahoo said:

It's not about hitting the parked car, it's about hitting a car door if it opens or hitting someone getting out of the car or emerging from in between cars.

prerak77 said:

Forget the thread drift regarding pedestrian safety for a moment, but sounds to me like those drivers who are hitting the signs either can't drive, or have issues with the dimensions of their own vehicles.


Similar to when I am driving down Prospect or Parker, and see vehicles cross a double yellow when they come upon a car parked at the curb of a home on Prospect\Parker as if they are worried they will hit the parked car. Totally unnecessary.

There is no one in the car, easily seen thru the rear window. I can see that when I am behind the car that crosses over, and at 25-30mph you are crawling down the road, can easily see, or slow down if the need arises, or are you perhaps going faster?


Additionally usually the cars that do this, do it while there may be another car oncoming.

I can't count the number of times folks parked on Parker have gotten out of their cars as I've turned from Prospect.  And no, you can't see them.  Furthermore, if both sides of Parker have cars parked there, it's even more of a dangerous situation. 

yahooyahoo said:

These signs are an issue where they are placed in areas where street parking takes place (example is Maplecrest Park).  Sometimes the space between the sign and a parked vehicle is very narrow.

Maplecrest is the WORST.  Sometimes you have to move into oncoming traffic to get by.  Brilliant, right there. 

Tom_Reingold said:

What will it take to get drivers to respect pedestrians' rights?

lanky said:

I'm with Tom.  Even on Springfield Ave with the signs that have the flashing LED lights, people do not stop for pedestrians...only enforcement and hitting people in the wallet will make it happen.

Let me rephrase. What will it take to enforce the laws so as to change behavior? When people ask for better enforcement and get it, they get pulled over. Then they push back to the police officer with such nonsense as "I'm a citizen who pays your salary. Don't you have better things to do than to cite minor infractions?"