South Orange Reservation Mask wearing

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

jmitw said:

I had someone call the cops on my while I was sitting on the front steps on residential property....alone -with no one else around-because I was not wearing a mask.....

it seems it is legal for the reservation to have more stringent rules....I did find a website that does say masks are required.

 --- and how much time did you spend in the clink? Or was it, "Sorry to have bothered you?

 Has this been answered? I never wear a mask when I'm working in my yard unless it's a dusty task. My front porch, that I sit on time to time is at least 15ft from the sidewalk. 


On the one hand, I don't think I'm in much danger when I'm masked in the Reservation and I pass someone walking in the opposite direction who isn't, though they should follow the rules (aside - in all my years here, I don't recall the county sheriffs ever enforcing a single rule in the Rez).

My real concern is progressive slacking off and relaxation of vigilance that will threaten efforts to loosen restrictions and bring people back to work.  For life to be normal, we all have to internalize the abnormality and ongoing danger of the virus and behave accordingly.  AS much as possible we have to voluntarily keep distance and wear masks.


It's become clear that only about 50% of people will wear masks other than in situations in which they can cannot gain entrance otherwise (such as supermarkets). I'm not basing that statistic on anything other than my observations. So, ultimately, those of us who are masked  need to decide how much risk we are able to tolerate. As time goes on, I don't think more people will wear masks, I think it will be the opposite. I wear a mask outside, although I tend to have it on and off during walks. I do believe though that the risk outside of transmission is very low. If I didn't believe that, I'd probably never leave my house.


bub said:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Is-risk-of-coronavirus-transmission-lower-15287602.php

 This article only loads if you subscribe. However, I know the risk is not 0 outside. Its lower than inside. It's mitigated by social distancing, wearing masks. Nothing is 0 risk.


the_18th_letter said:

 Has this been answered? I never wear a mask when I'm working in my yard unless it's a dusty task. My front porch, that I sit on time to time is at least 15ft from the sidewalk. 

 i was doing nothing wrong.., you are allowed to be on residential property without a mask....even at that time, outdoor gatherings of 10 or less were allowed...and you are allowed to visit with close friends and family.  you just need to be socially distancing from any one else that walks by.......now gatherings up to 25 are allowed outside.  I keep a mask on me just in case there should be a situation that requires it.


jmitw said:

 i was doing nothing wrong.., you are allowed to be on residential property without a mask....even at that time, outdoor gatherings of 10 or less were allowed...and you are allowed to visit with close friends and family.  you just need to be socially distancing from any one else that walks by.......now gatherings up to 25 are allowed outside.  I keep a mask on me just in case there should be a situation that requires it.

 I believe you are correct in your actions and response. If anyone gives you crap, call me and I will straighten out their sorry a..es.


honestly, there are some people that while following the rules make me uneasy.   I have a neighbor who runs up and down the block for an extended period, breathing heavy-possibly spreading more germs than someone just walking.  Another --who is a real ars---coughs heavily outside his home.  He is a smoker and I have seen him smoking outside before.  His home is on a corner, As I rounded the corner, he was leaning out the door hacking away....a considerate person would have stepped inside to cough like that.  But, rather than whining to the police, I just keep my distance..and mask handy (even though supposedly they are to protect others from you).


It is not a question of what is or is not permitted by law so much as a question of what will keep you healthy and safe.  You can be on your property with or without a mask and still run into problems.  I do not wear a mask when I trim the shrubs in my backyard or foundation planting.  Both are far enough from the sidewalk to keep me more than six feet from passersby.  The problem arose when I tried to trim the corner shrubs which are on my property; but, adjacent to the sidewalk.  I could wear a mask to protect others from me.  Passersby not wearing a mask could still infect me.  I decided not to trim the shrubs.  If code enforcement tells me they are too high, I will ask them to recommend a safe way for me to trim them.  Similarly, if I decide to sit outside on my property, I make sure my chair is at least six feet from the sidewalk.  That is hard to do in some parts of town, even if one is sitting on their front steps.


it is a question of what is permitted with people who are no where near me are calling the cops on me for doing nothing wrong.  I have to be fearful of who the person is.  If they have a problem with it, they should just stay away from me....like I stay away from the people I am uneasy with.  About 2/3rds of people I see on the public sidewalk are not wearing a mask.  I have seen people technically violating the rules (ie visiting with non close friends or family inside the homes), but haven't caused a scene over it.  And honestly, I don't trust the government when they say 6 feet is safe...after all this is the same gov that said no need for masks.  Germs linger in the air for a while-i don't remember how long, but if you walk through the same air or the germs drift in the breeze, you can be infected.  but there is a line between being cautious and panicking....making an issue of someone alone on residential property not wearing a mask is clearly crossing the line.  I would be okay with trimming bushes along the side walk, but I would be watching for others coming and step back for a few minutes.

There are people who think we are or should be in 100% lockdown.  I have a neighbor with a kid about 10.  I can hear her bouncing off the walls.  She has not been outside at all  in over 2 months from what I  have seen.  Their home is small, not much room to play inside for an active child.  I hear banging and the father yelling.  On the other hand, I have seen other kids out in front of their houses playing.  I see walkways decorated with chalk and other signs the families are balancing caution with normalcy.

There are people choosing to not interact with anyone outside their own household...not even a best friend or sibling.  That is their choice.  But that doesn't give them the right to force their laws on me.  I live alone. I have a friend that lives alone.  We have formed a partnership with limited contact.  Neither of us is socializing with others.  We mostly sit outside 6 feet apart.  I have gone inside his home to help with tech issues -i worked in his office while he was in the living room-or wash my hands.  It's not healthy to completely isolate from other humans for extended time.

Yes, in stores or another location that requires a mask, you can expect others to abide...but again, remember, some people are medically exempt.  I have had an issue a couple times where I had to stop and lift the bottom of the mask to breathe in cool area.  One of my health issues is that my body is not efficient at regulating my body temp..and even though it was cool in the store, i started to overheat from the warm air trapped by the mask and feel short of breath.  I also get severe pain quickly.  I have managed to make it through a couple stores over a period of about an hour, but by the time I left the 2nd store, I was ripping the mask off by the time I got to my car because oft he pain.


jmitw said:

 i was doing nothing wrong.., you are allowed to be on residential property without a mask....even at that time, outdoor gatherings of 10 or less were allowed...and you are allowed to visit with close friends and family.  you just need to be socially distancing from any one else that walks by.......now gatherings up to 25 are allowed outside.  I keep a mask on me just in case there should be a situation that requires it.

 I'm surprised the police department responded to a call of "neighbor in his yard without a mask" call unless it was a large gathering. Thankfully there were no summons or arrests. 


I'll come trim your shrubs if you want, Joan.

joan_crystal said:

 I decided not to trim the shrubs.  If code enforcement tells me they are too high, I will ask them to recommend a safe way for me to trim them.  


bikefixed said:

Thank you so much.  Much as I would love to see you, I have been able to get the corner shrubs down to a manageable size.  It is just a question of tackling them at times of the day when few people are passing by.  I find that the pruning is relaxing and a good excuse for getting outside.  Walking around town has become problematic with so few persons in my neighborhood wearing masks.  


Went to the Reservation at about 2 pm yesterday to walk dog on trail.  It was like the Woodstock festival.  I've never seen anything like it there.  Packed with cars and people everywhere.  I never got out of the car.  Well see how this plays out.  Lately, articles seem to be emphasizing a significantly lower risk of transmission outdoors (with the "ifs" of mask-wearing, distance, and brevity of contact with others) .  Hope they're right.  
 


I was concerned that college spring breakers (like those on the beaches in Florida) would become super spreaders but I don't see any recent follow up related to these. There was an early article showing where the students returned to from Florida, but no reports that I have seen related to major subsequent outbreaks. It seems that most outbreaks in the midwest are related to food processing plants and/or large indoor gatherings. 


bub said:

Went to the Reservation at about 2 pm yesterday to walk dog on trail.  It was like the Woodstock festival.  I've never seen anything like it there.  Packed with cars and people everywhere.  I never got out of the car.  Well see how this plays out.  Lately, articles seem to be emphasizing a significantly lower risk of transmission outdoors (with the "ifs" of mask-wearing, distance, and brevity of contact with others) .  Hope they're right.  
 

We were going to go with the dogs yesterday and drove through it and like you said it was too risky. I have never seen it so packed.  We decided to drive into Maplewood and walk through some different neighborhoods. 


On Friday we went for a walk on the Hacklebarney trails about 40 mins away. They were already quite busy, and about 2/3rds of the groups we saw were wearing masks (those with dogs less often than those with kids, possibly because those with dogs were more regulars who weren't aware that it would be so busy on the Friday before Memorial Day weekend). 

Their trail loops had all been made to go one-way, which seemed helpful so you wouldn't pass people going the opposite direction. 


I called the Sheriff's office today because the parking lot for Hemlock Falls was full and five or six cars were parked on the shoulder of South Orange Ave between the lot and the bridge.  One guy opened his car door and hopped out right in front of me as I went around the curve - luckily there was nobody in the other lane so I could move over.  He wasn't wearing a mask, but I only called because of the danger of having cars illegally parked on the shoulder at that particular place.

When I got to the top of the hill I observed that those parking spaces right at the entrance to the reservation were full and there was a line of cars along the edge of Crest Drive too.


mulemom said:

I called the Sheriff's office today because the parking lot for Hemlock Falls was full and five or six cars were parked on the shoulder of South Orange Ave between the lot and the bridge.  One guy opened his car door and hopped out right in front of me as I went around the curve - luckily there was nobody in the other lane so I could move over.  He wasn't wearing a mask, but I only called because of the danger of having cars illegally parked on the shoulder at that particular place.

When I got to the top of the hill I observed that those parking spaces right at the entrance to the reservation were full and there was a line of cars along the edge of Crest Drive too.

 Well, where else were they 'sposed ta park?  question

Do ya expect them to hike a half mile to do their hike?


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

mulemom said:

I called the Sheriff's office today because the parking lot for Hemlock Falls was full and five or six cars were parked on the shoulder of South Orange Ave between the lot and the bridge.  One guy opened his car door and hopped out right in front of me as I went around the curve - luckily there was nobody in the other lane so I could move over.  He wasn't wearing a mask, but I only called because of the danger of having cars illegally parked on the shoulder at that particular place.

When I got to the top of the hill I observed that those parking spaces right at the entrance to the reservation were full and there was a line of cars along the edge of Crest Drive too.

 Well, where else were they 'sposed ta park? 
question

Do ya expect them to walk a half mile to do their hike?

 A large number of people seem to be unaware that the Glen Ave. lot is not the only access point to the Reservation.  Selfishly, I can't say I'm terribly sorry about that but when I see the immense crowding there now, it makes me a little nervous about the lack of social distancing.


I noticed a bit more laxity on both social distancing and mask wearing over the weekend, on the street and in parks.

That said, I think it’s becoming clearer from the lack of case spikes in areas that are reopening,   that things are moving in the right direction, and as long as people aren’t stupid and totally careless, there isn’t much transmission risk from just being out and about. So while some folks may be jumping the gun in terms of their behavior relative to what the government says, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable, and as long as someone’s not right up in my grill, I don’t mind if someone’s not wearing a mask outside.

I always thought, if this thing can be spread by a person walking past another person on the street , we’re all screwed. Thankfully it looks like that dire scenario didn’t play out.


Smedley said:

I noticed a bit more laxity on both social distancing and mask wearing over the weekend, on the street and in parks.

That said, I think it’s becoming clearer from the lack of case spikes in areas that are reopening,   that things are moving in the right direction, and as long as people aren’t stupid and totally careless, there isn’t much transmission risk from just being out and about. So while some folks may be jumping the gun in terms of their behavior relative to what the government says, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable, and as long as someone’s not right up in my grill, I don’t mind if someone’s not wearing a mask outside.

I always thought, if this thing can be spread by a person walking past another person on the street , we’re all screwed. Thankfully it looks like that dire scenario didn’t play out.

 I beg to differ with your assertion that things are moving in the right direction as long as daily new cases in the US are in the tens of thousands.

Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases


Ok, that’s one interpretation of the data. So do you disagree with Murphy and Cuomo commencing gradual reopenings? Presumably they wouldn’t be doing so if they didn’t think things are moving in the right direction. 


I don't accept the presumption that they are reopening because they think things are moving in the right direction. I would argue that their motivations are more political and based on the level of dissent they are feeling.

I would be more comfortable if their policies were governed more by science than politics, and especially if Murphy's were less influenced by Cuomo.

I would be more comfortable if the lead speakers at their pressers were scientists.

I would be more comfortable if I believed that the majority of people were taking the health risks seriously.


max_weisenfeld said:

I don't accept the presumption that they are reopening because they think things are moving in the right direction. I would argue that their motivations are more political and based on the level of dissent they are feeling.

I would be more comfortable if their policies were governed more by science than politics, and especially if Murphy's were less influenced by Cuomo.

I would be more comfortable if the lead speakers at their pressers were scientists.

I would be more comfortable if I believed that the majority of people were taking the health risks seriously.

I agree with Max. Reopening in NY and NJ seems to be based more on the fact we are now at the unofficial start of summer and there is a lot of political pressure to reopen. I have limited confidence in Murphy's leadership during this crisis.


yahooyahoo said:

I agree with Max. Reopening in NY and NJ seems to be based more on the fact we are now at the unofficial start of summer and there is a lot of political pressure to reopen. I have limited confidence in Murphy's leadership during this crisis.

 He's better than most of the other governors. 


Smedley said:

I noticed a bit more laxity on both social distancing and mask wearing over the weekend, on the street and in parks.



 Yes. I didn't know we had so many tracheotomy patients in our area. These are the people wearing their masks around their necks.


Murphy and Cuomo have very difficult jobs.  Trump did not want to take any blame so he shifted all responsibility to the governors. The governors are doing the best they can in an all new situation. Trump is home free all.


yahooyahoo said:

max_weisenfeld said:



I agree with Max. Reopening in NY and NJ seems to be based more on the fact we are now at the unofficial start of summer and there is a lot of political pressure to reopen. I have limited confidence in Murphy's leadership during this crisis.

Why? 


yahooyahoo said:

max_weisenfeld said:

I don't accept the presumption that they are reopening because they think things are moving in the right direction. I would argue that their motivations are more political and based on the level of dissent they are feeling.

I would be more comfortable if their policies were governed more by science than politics, and especially if Murphy's were less influenced by Cuomo.

I would be more comfortable if the lead speakers at their pressers were scientists.

I would be more comfortable if I believed that the majority of people were taking the health risks seriously.

I agree with Max. Reopening in NY and NJ seems to be based more on the fact we are now at the unofficial start of summer and there is a lot of political pressure to reopen. I have limited confidence in Murphy's leadership during this crisis.

 Personally I give high marks to both Murphy and Cuomo for their handling of the crisis. I’m sure there is pressure to reopen but at the same time I believe both governors are putting data and science first in their decisions on how to move forward.

Regarding the data - daily new cases in the US are down by about 1/3 over the past month and a half (as per Max’s graphic above), during which time testing more than doubled (see below).

How is that not moving in the right direction?


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