SOMSD Changes

You are mistaken if you think white students from well educated families don't fail at CHS. 

brealer said:
You are mistaken if you think white students from well educated families don't fail at CHS. 

That’s a big “if” you’ve attached to erins’ comment. “Black children from high-income, well educated families are not excelling” doesn’t have to mean they’re failing. It can mean they’re capable of more but, despite the open access policy, are still encountering obstacles.

meant no slight to Mr Fields's daughter. She seems very successful to me. 

DaveSchmidt said:

brealer said:
You are mistaken if you think white students from well educated families don't fail at CHS. 

That’s a big “if” you’ve attached to erins’ comment. “Black children from high-income, well educated families are not excelling” doesn’t have to mean they’re failing. It can mean they’re capable of more but, despite the open access policy, are still encountering obstacles.

Assuming they've completed K-8 (un-leveled) heterogeneously grouped courses here at SOMA, and considering there's an open access policy at the high school with supports for classes and several paths to jump ahead in Math (even in middle school), what obstacles are talking about?  

Keep in mind I don't know any family, of any ethnicity, mine included, that hasn't had a scheduling problem or had the school schedule the wrong course.   My kid begged for CAD class for 4 years and never got it.  It's public school.

tbd said:

DaveSchmidt said:

brealer said:
You are mistaken if you think white students from well educated families don't fail at CHS. 

That’s a big “if” you’ve attached to erins’ comment. “Black children from high-income, well educated families are not excelling” doesn’t have to mean they’re failing. It can mean they’re capable of more but, despite the open access policy, are still encountering obstacles.

Assuming they've completed K-8 (un-leveled) heterogeneously grouped courses here at SOMA, and considering there's an open access policy at the high school with supports for classes and several paths to jump ahead in Math (even in middle school), what obstacles are talking about?  
Keep in mind I don't know any family, of any ethnicity, mine included, that hasn't had a scheduling problem or had the school schedule the wrong course.   My kid begged for CAD class for 4 years and never got it.  It's public school.

The open access policy only came into existence in the past couple of years and there are still prerequisites for some of the courses.  The math curriculum was just simplified this past spring for the 18-19 school year.

I agree that scheduling (in general) at the high school is a mess, every year. Every year we've had to request changes and sometimes we've succeeded and sometimes failed.

tbd said:

DaveSchmidt said:

brealer said:
You are mistaken if you think white students from well educated families don't fail at CHS. 

That’s a big “if” you’ve attached to erins’ comment. “Black children from high-income, well educated families are not excelling” doesn’t have to mean they’re failing. It can mean they’re capable of more but, despite the open access policy, are still encountering obstacles.

Assuming they've completed K-8 (un-leveled) heterogeneously grouped courses here at SOMA, and considering there's an open access policy at the high school with supports for classes and several paths to jump ahead in Math (even in middle school), what obstacles are talking about?  
Keep in mind I don't know any family, of any ethnicity, mine included, that hasn't had a scheduling problem or had the school schedule the wrong course.   My kid begged for CAD class for 4 years and never got it.  It's public school.

This is brilliant.

This poster is actually on a computer with instantaneous access to pages and pages of information that specifically detail all of the obstacles he/she professes to know nothing about.

Instead of clicking any number of links that would provide examples, stats, anecdotes, filings, reports, legal precedent, etc., this poster decides that the problem is really just a scheduling snafu. How? Well, that's simple, his/her kid tried to get into a CAD class for four years- and couldn't. So there you go. It's just scheduling, nothing more. And, (and mind you this is a GIANT 'and') EVERYBODY has the same problem regardless of ethnicity. That's right, everybody. So it can't possibly be racist.

Problem solved.  Things are looking up now!

I must admit that I read these threads to understand what my fellow neighbors think about this situation, but I don’t expect it to help clarify my thinking on this complex issue.  

As I know Ex-Principal Aaron, I can only hope that her successor works as hard and tirelessly towards an improved education for all students.  Our children’s educations depend on it. 

Filmbro,

Access to education is easier here than in any surrounding district (maybe anywhere).  We may be unhappy about outcomes and want to work on bettering those, but no, I don't believe the district or it's teachers and administrator are racist.  That's partly why I find it such BS that principal Aaron is being kicked out.

tbd said:
We may be unhappy about outcomes and want to work on bettering those, but no, I don't believe the district or it's teachers and administrator are racist.  That's partly why I find it such BS that principal Aaron is being kicked out.

I'm reading between the lines on this audit, but when I see:

(from https://villagegreennj.com/towns/maplewood/somsd-to-hire-consultant-to-review-chs-credit-recovery-grading-policy-and-procedures/ )

 “...questions regarding grading and credit recovery at the high school” were brought to his attention, his  “initial reaction to that was that we would look into it.”

Rando and White’s initial investigation turned up “a number of inconsistencies and a lack of clarity in the policies and procedures...”

“...We are going to put out an RFP which is a request for proposals for an audit of the policies and procedures at CHS,” said Ficarra. The outside consultant will “do a thorough audit and make recommendations.”

This doesn't tell us what the "questions" and "inconsistencies" are that were brought up. But if the auditor finds that the inconsistencies in application of this policy were by race and/or socioeconomic status of the students, then it would fit the definition of institutional racism/classism.

I’d be surprised to find that Ms Aaron would approve of a « racist policy » given her track record but maybe she is the fall guy for a subordinate’s flawed implementation?

Perhaps that is what the district's self-imposed audit is expected to determine.

A while ago, I think, flimbro mentioned that his family was weighing whether his eighth-grade daughter would be going to CHS. All I know of flimbro is what I read on MOL, but regardless of what the decision was, shouldn’t it worry the district just a little — lawsuit or no lawsuit — when the high school gives a parent like him second thoughts?

There are many issues that need to be solved in our district, including at CHS.  The data clearly shows a significant achievement gap between white and minority students.  However, I disagree with Mr. Fields' strategy and tactics.  A lot of long-term damage is being done in addition to the progress that is being made.  I don't have the answers but I think more productive paths could be taken.

yahooyahoo said:
There are many issues that need to be solved in our district, including at CHS.  The data clearly shows a significant achievement gap between white and minority students.  However, I disagree with Mr. Fields' strategy and tactics.  A lot of long-term damage is being done in addition to the progress that is being made.  I don't have the answers but I think more productive paths could be taken.

The thing is, historically, no matter what form of protest POC choose to express their anger and frustration about the oppressive circumstances of their lives, it is deemed by upholders of the status quo to be 'inappropriate.' Just witness the absolute refusal of so many in this thread to recognize that there is institutional racism going on in this district. The voices of the students who have experienced it are out there for anyone to hear, if they will listen. 

Since the district agreed in 2014 that there is indeed a problem to be solved, an entire cohort of students have journeyed through the school from freshman year to graduation without significant change happening. That is significant damage to hundreds of lives. How long should the families wait? A crucial step in repairing the long-term damage done by racism is to listen to and believe those who experience it. 

The Community Coalition on Race has put forth a letter of concern regarding administrative changes in the district. There is also concern about the resulting divisiveness. This could get interesting if it is shown that the principal of CHS is being thrown out with the bath water, or, if she moved too slow with the necessary remediation.

and now the rally has been cancelled

tbd said: Filmbro, Access to education is easier here than in any surrounding district (maybe anywhere).  We may be unhappy about outcomes and want to work on bettering those, but no, I don't believe the district or it's teachers and administrator are racist.  That's partly why I find it such BS that principal Aaron is being kicked out.

Then to what do you attribute this activity? Pushy Black folks? One troublemaker with an incredible amount of sway? Spineless administrators afraid to stand up to six or seven people?  What is it?  If there's no problem here, what are we all talking about? 

Your response ignores reality. We live in a town within a state in a country that has always been defined by and required some degree of racial bias. That's just a fact. Schools nationwide have been reverting to segregated status since about 1988. That's also a fact. We aren't moving forward- we're moving backward. We're not special. There's no protective bubble here. We are in the world. 

We are in the world. 

So much of this is about what we want to believe about ourselves and what we want to believe about the place we live. Inclusivity requires work. Diversity requires work. Equal access requires vigilance and ingenuity. Good thoughts won't deconstruct white privilege any more than rainbow crosswalks will ward off homophobia- it takes work and maintenance. Saying you don't think administrators, teachers and principals are racist doesn't mean the school system isn't crippled by institutionalized bias based on skin color and economics- because that's the way the system was designed. We're engaged in a fight to redesign what started off wrong. Looking the other way used to work- it won't any more. Not here.

Well-meaning people fall victim to bad systems every day. This thread is about one such candidate. Innocent people fall as well and those are the thousands of students who didn't get the opportunity to shine when they should have.

Agreed--so why get rid of a person who is taking concrete action to ameliorate the situation (detailed in the petition to reinstate). Considering the deep rooted nature of the bias, she is expected to "solve" the problem in 4 years? 

Looking the other way? Not here.

annielou said:
The Community Coalition on Race has put forth a letter of concern regarding administrative changes in the district. There is also concern about the resulting divisiveness. This could get interesting if it is shown that the principal of CHS is being thrown out with the bath water, or, if she moved too slow with the necessary remediation.

The CCR letter: 

 http://www.twotowns.org/2018/07/09/coalition-on-race-responds-to-changes-in-school-district-administrators/

Short version: we intend to link Aaron with the slow pace of change at CHS, then disingenuously ask the Board members that we put on the Board: tell us why you got rid of her. 

Phony.

Coffeegretchen said:

yahooyahoo said:
There are many issues that need to be solved in our district, including at CHS.  The data clearly shows a significant achievement gap between white and minority students.  However, I disagree with Mr. Fields' strategy and tactics.  A lot of long-term damage is being done in addition to the progress that is being made.  I don't have the answers but I think more productive paths could be taken.

The thing is, historically, no matter what form of protest POC choose to express their anger and frustration about the oppressive circumstances of their lives, it is deemed by upholders of the status quo to be 'inappropriate.' Just witness the absolute refusal of so many in this thread to recognize that there is institutional racism going on in this district. The voices of the students who have experienced it are out there for anyone to hear, if they will listen. 
Since the district agreed in 2014 that there is indeed a problem to be solved, an entire cohort of students have journeyed through the school from freshman year to graduation without significant change happening. That is significant damage to hundreds of lives. How long should the families wait? A crucial step in repairing the long-term damage done by racism is to listen to and believe those who experience it. 

 I didn’t see the refusal of “so many” people to acknowledge that institution racism was an issue.  The thread is an open discussion About whether or not Principal Aaron has been part of the problem or has been working towards the solution.  

And Flimbro, it would be disappointing if you chose to send your children elsewhere to high school, but I would understand.  Whilst I am committed to continuing to send my (white) children to Columbia, I have sometimes questioned whether or not I am providing them the best opportunity of a great education and a great high school experience.  We continue to send them based on the hope that they will be part of a more diverse and inclusive environment that mirrors our aspirational view of what we hope the US can be.  We recognize that as idealistic.  But it still feels better than giving in to some non-diverse private school or more institutionally racist neighboring towns (Livingston, Millburn, Summit, Chatham).  

Woot said:

Coffeegretchen said:

yahooyahoo said:
There are many issues that need to be solved in our district, including at CHS.  The data clearly shows a significant achievement gap between white and minority students.  However, I disagree with Mr. Fields' strategy and tactics.  A lot of long-term damage is being done in addition to the progress that is being made.  I don't have the answers but I think more productive paths could be taken.

The thing is, historically, no matter what form of protest POC choose to express their anger and frustration about the oppressive circumstances of their lives, it is deemed by upholders of the status quo to be 'inappropriate.' Just witness the absolute refusal of so many in this thread to recognize that there is institutional racism going on in this district. The voices of the students who have experienced it are out there for anyone to hear, if they will listen. 
Since the district agreed in 2014 that there is indeed a problem to be solved, an entire cohort of students have journeyed through the school from freshman year to graduation without significant change happening. That is significant damage to hundreds of lives. How long should the families wait? A crucial step in repairing the long-term damage done by racism is to listen to and believe those who experience it. 

 I didn’t see the refusal of “so many” people to acknowledge that institution racism was an issue.  The thread is an open discussion About whether or not Principal Aaron has been part of the problem or has been working towards the solution.  


And Flimbro, it would be disappointing if you chose to send your children elsewhere to high school, but I would understand.  Whilst I am committed to continuing to send my (white) children to Columbia, I have sometimes questioned whether or not I am providing them the best opportunity of a great education and a great high school experience.  We continue to send them based on the hope that they will be part of a more diverse and inclusive environment that mirrors our aspirational view of what we hope the US can be.  We recognize that as idealistic.  But it still feels better than giving in to some non-diverse private school or more institutionally racist neighboring towns (Livingston, Millburn, Summit, Chatham).  

 Wow....just wow.  Woot where is your evidence that there is institutional racism in our neighboring towns?  Having had a child graduate from Chatham HS and one who graduated from CHS I can tell you that both got fantastic educations.  One is already successful in his own right and the other is well on his way.  

In Chatham we didn't have to deal with some of the nonsense that goes on here but there were other issues.  And as for the latest round of BS going on at CHS I cannot wait to remove my youngest son from this district and move him west of here.

Just because the neighboring towns are lacking in skin color diversity doesn't automatically make them "institutionally racist."

sportsnut said:

Woot said:

Coffeegretchen said:

yahooyahoo said:
There are many issues that need to be solved in our district, including at CHS.  The data clearly shows a significant achievement gap between white and minority students.  However, I disagree with Mr. Fields' strategy and tactics.  A lot of long-term damage is being done in addition to the progress that is being made.  I don't have the answers but I think more productive paths could be taken.

The thing is, historically, no matter what form of protest POC choose to express their anger and frustration about the oppressive circumstances of their lives, it is deemed by upholders of the status quo to be 'inappropriate.' Just witness the absolute refusal of so many in this thread to recognize that there is institutional racism going on in this district. The voices of the students who have experienced it are out there for anyone to hear, if they will listen. 
Since the district agreed in 2014 that there is indeed a problem to be solved, an entire cohort of students have journeyed through the school from freshman year to graduation without significant change happening. That is significant damage to hundreds of lives. How long should the families wait? A crucial step in repairing the long-term damage done by racism is to listen to and believe those who experience it. 

 I didn’t see the refusal of “so many” people to acknowledge that institution racism was an issue.  The thread is an open discussion About whether or not Principal Aaron has been part of the problem or has been working towards the solution.  


And Flimbro, it would be disappointing if you chose to send your children elsewhere to high school, but I would understand.  Whilst I am committed to continuing to send my (white) children to Columbia, I have sometimes questioned whether or not I am providing them the best opportunity of a great education and a great high school experience.  We continue to send them based on the hope that they will be part of a more diverse and inclusive environment that mirrors our aspirational view of what we hope the US can be.  We recognize that as idealistic.  But it still feels better than giving in to some non-diverse private school or more institutionally racist neighboring towns (Livingston, Millburn, Summit, Chatham).  

 Wow....just wow.  Woot where is your evidence that there is institutional racism in our neighboring towns?  Having had a child graduate from Chatham HS and one who graduated from CHS I can tell you that both got fantastic educations.  One is already successful in his own right and the other is well on his way.  
In Chatham we didn't have to deal with some of the nonsense that goes on here but there were other issues.  And as for the latest round of BS going on at CHS I cannot wait to remove my youngest son from this district and move him west of here.
Just because the neighboring towns are lacking in skin color diversity doesn't automatically make them "institutionally racist."

 It also doesn’t mean they aren’t diverse, just that the diversity looks different. Fewer AA families, many more Asian, Indian, Latino and first generation immigrants.

If everywhere that is integrated is ipso facto instutionally racist, what’s the solution?  Each race gets their own school with teachers of their own race? That  is going way backwards.  MSO, while not utopia bends over backward to try to close the achievement gap, sometimes to the exclusion of everything else.  While implementing policies that try to close the gap, it’s a long standing, pernicious problem that is based on income,parental education, advocacy and many more issues other than just race. It’s not going to be solved by tossing out a well regarded principal in an affluent suburb.

campbell29 said:

If everywhere that is integrated is ipso facto instutionally racist, what’s the solution?  

A start would be agreement that institutional racism is everywhere. But see how hard even that first step is.

DaveSchmidt said:

campbell29 said:

If everywhere that is integrated is ipso facto instutionally racist, what’s the solution?  

A start would be agreement that institutional racism is everywhere. But see how hard even that first step is.

Fragile psyches are shattering

You're a brave man @DaveSchmidt. Godspeed and keep your powder dry.

Thought better of my post and deleted. 

sportsnut said:

Wow....just wow.  Woot where is your evidence that there is institutional racism in our neighboring towns?  Having had a child graduate from Chatham HS and one who graduated from CHS I can tell you that both got fantastic educations.  One is already successful in his own right and the other is well on his way.  
In Chatham we didn't have to deal with some of the nonsense that goes on here but there were other issues.  And as for the latest round of BS going on at CHS I cannot wait to remove my youngest son from this district and move him west of here.
Just because the neighboring towns are lacking in skin color diversity doesn't automatically make them "institutionally racist."

 What exactly do you mean by nonsense?

yahooyahoo said:
 What exactly do you mean by nonsense?

 If you've been around a while you may remember my ranting about my child's having two iPhones stolen - one from the elementary school where the child was caught on video and the other when his gym locker was broken into.  More recently the turmoil and "nonsense" going on with the BOE, the revolving door of upper administration and the chasing of the Holy Grail of equal outcomes.  Sorry but I'd rather be in a district where these issues don't exist.

You don’t have to be a ’Nova fan to know nearby Radnor High’s reputation. It’s sterling.

“A recent influx of thefts”: Teen Steals Bait Phone at Radnor High School (January 2018)

DaveSchmidt said:

campbell29 said:

If everywhere that is integrated is ipso facto instutionally racist, what’s the solution?  

A start would be agreement that institutional racism is everywhere. But see how hard even that first step is.

 There is a very strong argument that NJ has long-standing and entrenched structural racism that causes our state to be extremely segregated by race.

http://www.antipovertynetwork.org/resources/Documents/The%20Uncomfortable%20Truth%20Final%20-%20web.pdf