Should I replace my knob and tube?

Have old know and tube in the wall sconces, and wondering if I should replace it or just let it be?

Thanks

I would replace it. It isn't going to get less dangerous.

Knob and Tube is very dangerous and should be replaced. The insulation will be old and dry and may even be missing in places.

When you go to sell your home the buyer may require you to upgrade or ask for an adjustment to the price to cover the upgrade. In either case you are at a disadvantage. Better to do it when you can get the best price from and electrician rather than paying a premium price because you need it Now!

You're right. Thanks

Knob and Tube is not inherently dangerous. Our 100+ year old house has had K&T without incident. That said, we are well aware that before we sell - most likely in the late 2030's we will need to replace the wiring. K&T and in ground oil tanks became a real concern after the housing bubble. Most banks will not issue a mortgage for a house with either and getting homeowners insurance can be difficult.

Amused said:

Knob and Tube is not inherently dangerous. Our 100+ year old house has had K&T without incident. That said, we are well aware that before we sell - most likely in the late 2030's we will need to replace the wiring. K&T and in ground oil tanks became a real concern after the housing bubble. Most banks will not issue a mortgage for a house with either and getting homeowners insurance can be difficult.

I get your point, but I disagree. If the wiring were by itself, untouched, it might be fine. But if someone blows insulation into the wall, or there is a winter of roof leaks, it's a whole different animal. It's old, it has brittle insulation, it can't take a problem.

K & T wiring is only dangerous IF it is connected- conducting current. Otherwise it's as worrisome as spent light bulb in thhe trash.

of course, from the OP we are assuming it is in use.

If a contractor blows insulation into a homeowner's walls without knowing that the home has K&T wiring they would be negligent and liable.

Yes. Of course. You can be legally in the right, or you can avoid the whole problem.

Avoiding the whole problem in most instances involves the removal of all wall and ceiling finishes and rewiring - (including most likely a new service). Or you can choose to live in a home that was either constructed after the 1940's (not that many in our community) or was renovated recently. Our plan is to eventually replace the K&T, primarily so we can install A/C - it's just not the fire hazard that some make it out to be.

the op discussed knob and tube wiring to their sconces, that's all. I have pulled permits and completely rewired a few homes, including this 1904 house. It can be done much less destructively than you think. I have some wall and ceiling patches, but it just takes time and patience.

If you plan to sell your home one day, unless current standards change, you should remove it. As a realtor I can tell you that it will be very difficult to sell your home with knob and tube wiring. Buyers will expect you to remove it before closing, but more likely they will present you with an estimate and expect a credit so they can remove it themselves, and you can bet their estimate will be much more than it will would cost you.

Although this is only anecdotal , Years ago I experienced a small fire in my own home that came from the knob and tube wiring. We thought we smelled smoke in the house ( although the smoke detectors never went off) and traced it to a second floor bedroom. We could see smoke but couldn't see where it was coming from. My husband ( who was an architect who knew how to do electric wiring and who had grown up doing carpentry and projects with his father ) felt along the wall until he found a hot spot, opened the wall ( like a crazy man) found the smoldering wire/wood and put it out. It was after that that we had the entire house completely rewired.

When we bought our SO house in late '09 our insurance company wouldn't write a policy unless the K&T was removed. They also wouldn't give me a quote after I accidentally clicked "in ground oil tank."

We were in the same situation in 2004 when we purchased our home. At that time only Chubb and USAA would insure homes in NJ with K&T and In Ground Oil Tanks. We had both.

We've removed the oil tank. We don't see a need - currently - to replace the wiring.

I too am an Architect.

I've traced and identified all of our electrical circuits. Knowing that the same circuit serves multiple devices in different rooms and on different levels of our home, I don't see how selective demolition of the plaster on lath finishes would be a safe approach to replacing the K&T.

The one situation where I would recommend replacement of K&T ASAP is if you have a combination of K&T and other wiring and you can see splices outside of a junction box.

I thought knob & tube did not meet code anymore?

yahooyahoo said:

I thought knob & tube did not meet code anymore?

That doesn't mean you need to remove it.

We have some in our house. I've been systematically decommissioning and/or removing it. It's actually in great condition but if I need to open a switch or outlet box that's fed by it I replace it. The stuff is okay if undisturbed.

My plan is to get it all out of service by the end of this year. It's a pain but see comments above regarding resale and insurance.

Aren't you fine decommissioning it and leaving it in place if need be? Electrician could snake new lines without too much destruction...

If it's going to lights and only lights I'd be less concerned than if it's going to outlets.

Wonder if putting LED or other low voltage bulbs would (moderately) decrease any potential risk. Truly don't know the answer.

Of course once it's unhooked it's just garbage in your walls, and is nothing to worry about. It just comes down to comfort level, I guess, as to whether or not you keep it in service. It's not guaranteed to cause a fire, but it isn't ideal.

FilmCarp said:

Of course once it's unhooked it's just garbage in your walls, and is nothing to worry about. It just comes down to comfort level, I guess, as to whether or not you keep it in service. It's not guaranteed to cause a fire, but it isn't ideal.

I was wondering more if insurance cos or buyers wanted it 100% pulled, since you could conceivably hook it back up. In our house the lines were cut far, far from service so that it would take major effort to "re-commission" It. Of course we were assured it was all gone and found it after closing.

Even more dangerous, the house we owned in Maplewood, built in 1888, had gas lines in the walls and ceilings for lights. They were not connected to the supply, so they didn't pose a hazard, but they would have if they had been hooked up.

We had the same thing, Tom, but I don't consider it dangerous. It would take real effort to reconnect that stuff. If you are going to do that you deserve what you get, right?

For what it's worth, I've worked with a home inspector, who shared a story about another inspector who missed the knob & tube during an inspection. There was a subsequent fire, deemed to have been caused by it. That inspector was sued, lost his license and his career.

My two cents would be to get it removed/disconnected

RobB said:

When we bought our SO house in late '09 our insurance company wouldn't write a policy unless the K&T was removed. They also wouldn't give me a quote after I accidentally clicked "in ground oil tank."

LOL...in ground oil tanks?! Ugh!

First, buyers won't buy a home with K&T. Second, RobB is correct...a potential buyer would have a super tough time getting homeowner's insurance. That's two strikes. I'd remove it.

Any recommendations for electricians who are respectful of old houses that willing to do this work in a house that will be lived in while the work is being done? The ability to do this work with as little damage that needs repair is a plus (especially if you like plaster walls, and prefer to avoid fully replacing sections of walls) as is the willingness to work on a few rooms at a time to allow furniture moving.

Have had some reluctance getting estimates. Apparently there are a lot of requests for estimates without follow- through. Not sure if they prefer working in empty houses.

it is a time consuming job, and requires a careful approach. It may be hard to find people to do it.

This past summer we used Ryland Electric (973-512-3217) to remove the extensive knob and tube in our 1910 house and they did a great job. We were here at the time. Only small holes, which they plastered over, in the ceiling and in walls near light switches.

Would suggest Superior Wirework, 973-713-5345. Ask for the owner, Dan, who has experience with knob & tube and is likely to be able to answer all of your questions. (In the interest of full disclosure, my home is from the 1950s, so I do not have first hand experience with K & T, but know of friends who have had it replaced, and friends who have left it as is.)

much of our wiring has cloth covered wires, is that knob and tube? We have an updated panel.

maps said:

much of our wiring has cloth covered wires, is that knob and tube? We have an updated panel.

https://goo.gl/images/P21qrA