Seth Boyden teacher accused of removing student's hijab during class

tjohn said:

Could this situation have been handled as follows?

1.  2nd grader tells parent what happen at school.

2.  Parent contacts principal and asks for a meeting to discuss what happens.

3.  With a mediator, parent and teacher and principal discuss this issue and how to prevent this from happening again.

4.  If parent is still unhappy, then they can hire a lawyer.

However, now that this has been tried in the court of daily outrage, there are no good outcomes and the entire community suffers.

FWIW: When the parent asked some in the Seth Boyden community for guidance on how to proceed, it was suggested by many to start by going to the principal. However, that was not the option selected (possibly due to other louder voices, who may have their own agenda).


jamie said:

I'm not sure if it was mentioned on this thread - but a hoodie is an acceptable substitution for a hijab.

Sounds like Herman thought she had her hijab on underneath.  

Seeing the 2 accounts side by side is helpful.  The "forcible removal" of the hijab sounds like a stretch.  Also - the quote of telling the student that  "her hair was beautiful and she did not have to wear hijab to school anymore." - is really odd.  Would other students be able to corroborate this statement?

 sure a hoodie can serve the purpose of a hijab, but teachers aren't psychic, they can't tell if there is an actual hijab under the hoodie or not and if a student normally wears an actual hijab, a teacher would expect they have it on that day and was the hood  as a hoodie...until they were informed otherwise


There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.


jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.


Dennis_Seelbach said:

jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.

 wow. very bad take.


Folks, 

Probably worthwhile noting that the investigation is not yet complete.   While it is great that the teacher gave a statement, it is likely that the truth still remains somewhere in the middle.   


drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.

 wow. very bad take.

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !


The teacher's lawyer has now verified that the teacher did touch the student but "gently."
Major miscalculation by the lawyer not to admit there was contact between the student and teacher in the first statement.  I still believe it was an honest misunderstanding, but changing your story doesn't help.

From the Village Green Facebook page:

"An accusation that a teacher “forcibly” removed a second grader’s hijab has shaken the South Orange and Maplewood community in the last week, as the student’s family and friends and the teacher have offered differing accounts of the incident.

While the teacher does admit to touching the seven-year-old’s head covering in a new statement sent to Village Green, she contends that she thought the student was wearing a hoodie over her hijab, that the motion was done “gently,” and that the student “kept the hood on” when the teacher realized her mistake.

The attorney representing the student and her family, says that this account differs from a previous statement because the teacher "learned yesterday that we had confirmation [that an individual saw it happen].”"


Dennis_Seelbach said:

drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.

 wow. very bad take.

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !

 one doesn't have to know exactly what happened to know that the Olympic fencer was totally off base with her initial post and that she created an unnecessary sh!tstorm that cause great grief for the teacher.

She deserves every bit of criticism that comes her way for this incident. She has behaved disgracefully. And, apparently, has now run for cover, since I've seen nothing from her since the first day of this mess.

She trashed her own reputation.

And I don't know what thread you're reading, but there have only been a handful of posts that have criticized the teacher.


drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.

 wow. very bad take.

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !

 one doesn't have to know exactly what happened to know that the Olympic fencer was totally off base with her initial post and that she created an unnecessary sh!tstorm that cause great grief for the teacher.

She deserves every bit of criticism that comes her way for this incident. She has behaved disgracefully. And, apparently, has now run for cover, since I've seen nothing from her since the first day of this mess.

She trashed her own reputation.

And I don't know what thread you're reading, but there have only been a handful of posts that have criticized the teacher.

 Bullsh!t!


Dennis_Seelbach said:

drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.

 wow. very bad take.

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !

 one doesn't have to know exactly what happened to know that the Olympic fencer was totally off base with her initial post and that she created an unnecessary sh!tstorm that cause great grief for the teacher.

She deserves every bit of criticism that comes her way for this incident. She has behaved disgracefully. And, apparently, has now run for cover, since I've seen nothing from her since the first day of this mess.

She trashed her own reputation.

And I don't know what thread you're reading, but there have only been a handful of posts that have criticized the teacher.

 Bullsh!t!

 wow. you're quite the wordsmith.


drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

drummerboy said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

jeffl said:

There are many apologies that should be forthcoming that, sadly, are unlikely.

 Including from ALL of you who have advanced various theories, laid blame on various folks, and opined with ZERO knowledge of what happened, or didn't happen. ALL of you should be ashamed.

 wow. very bad take.

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !

 one doesn't have to know exactly what happened to know that the Olympic fencer was totally off base with her initial post and that she created an unnecessary sh!tstorm that cause great grief for the teacher.

She deserves every bit of criticism that comes her way for this incident. She has behaved disgracefully. And, apparently, has now run for cover, since I've seen nothing from her since the first day of this mess.

She trashed her own reputation.

And I don't know what thread you're reading, but there have only been a handful of posts that have criticized the teacher.

One verifiable fact is that the fencer, who was not present for the incident, posted an account as if it was a fact. Her post on Instagram has over 2500 comments. Most are critical of the teacher. Many call for her immediate firing, some call for her to be arrested and then there are a handful of comments that suggest violence and a handful of anti Semitic comments. Radio silence from fencer since last week.


sbenois said:

Folks, 

Probably worthwhile noting that the investigation is not yet complete.   While it is great that the teacher gave a statement, it is likely that the truth still remains somewhere in the middle.   

 Exactly 


At this point, the results of the investigation are just a footnote.  The damage has been done and those who would have benefited most from a less public treatment of this incident are all going to be worse off for the experience.


The fencer who has used this incident to help sell her book is in the CHS hall of fame. Her books are proudly sold at Words, there have been parades for her. Thousands of posts on soma FB in support of her because of who she is. OTOH, The teacher one way or the other is forever disgraced, can’t ever work here again and feel safe since thousands of people around the world believe she’s a racist. It’s unsafe for her and the children to keep her around. How unfair. 

It should start with removing the fencer from the hall of fame, removing her book from the stores. She is the disgrace but it’s the teacher who will pay. 


Redfruit said:

The fencer who has used this incident to help sell her book is in the CHS hall of fame. Her books are proudly sold at Words, there have been parades for her. Thousands of posts on soma FB in support of her because of who she is. OTOH, The teacher one way or the other is forever disgraced, can’t ever work here again and feel safe since thousands of people around the world believe she’s a racist. It’s unsafe for her and the children to keep her around. How unfair. 

It should start with removing the fencer from the hall of fame, removing her book from the stores. She is the disgrace but it’s the teacher who will pay. 

 Proving that:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !

 


Redfruit said:

It should start with removing the fencer from the hall of fame, removing her book from the stores. She is the disgrace but it’s the teacher who will pay.

From the “Whoa, everybody — what this situation calls for is more impulse action” chapter in the Book of Wisdom (not currently on sale).


Because of the fencer's rush to social media (instead of behaving like a responsible adult), I'm having to receive emails from the school like this: 

As a follow up to Dr. Taylor’s 10/12 communication regarding the allegations against a Seth Boyden teacher, we want to be proactive and have plans in place in case we have additional media presence or protestors come to the school building. While we are not anticipating any danger or violence toward staff or students, we want to be sure that we have a plan that limits the amount of exposure our students have to this sensitive and ongoing issue.

Lovely. 

My child - our innocent children - are put at risk due to the way this situation has been recklessly and irresponsibly handled. It was needlessly inflamed on social media. That's the real truth. 


STANV said:

Redfruit said:

The fencer who has used this incident to help sell her book is in the CHS hall of fame. Her books are proudly sold at Words, there have been parades for her. Thousands of posts on soma FB in support of her because of who she is. OTOH, The teacher one way or the other is forever disgraced, can’t ever work here again and feel safe since thousands of people around the world believe she’s a racist. It’s unsafe for her and the children to keep her around. How unfair. 

It should start with removing the fencer from the hall of fame, removing her book from the stores. She is the disgrace but it’s the teacher who will pay. 

 Proving that:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

 OK, do YOU know what happened? The answer is NO. So you have, along with a whole bunch of others, chimed in, with various opinions, that have trashed a respected teacher's reputation, or have trashed a respected Olympic fencer's reputation, with absolutely ZERO knowledge of what may, or may not have happened. Good work, Bozo !

 

As I posted earlier, Muhammad's post was reckless and directly led to death threats to the teacher.

Doesn't matter if we personally knew what happened. Her post was a bad thing.

She gets no benefit of the doubt and has, in fact, revealed a rather ugly side.

HOF material? YMMV


drummerboy said:

As I posted earlier, Muhammad's post was reckless and directly led to death threats to the teacher.

Yes, And also, the post puts the kids and staff at Seth Boyden at risk. Those violent threats were mixed in with calls to protest the school (providing the address). 

I have zero respect for the way this was handled. 


DaveSchmidt said:

Redfruit said:

It should start with removing the fencer from the hall of fame, removing her book from the stores. She is the disgrace but it’s the teacher who will pay.

From the “Whoa, everybody — what this situation calls for is more impulse action” chapter in the Book of Wisdom (not currently on sale).

 I assume You know so little about this case that you are resorting to humor in order to sort it out. Not a good luck on your part. Read the threats being made against the community and the teacher all in the name of the social media message sent by the fencer. Not a joke..


That's disturbing. 

And there's been no repudiation of this by the fencer. No calls for non-violence. Radio silence. 


Redfruit said:

Not a joke..

No kidding. Here's to cooler heads.


composerjohn said:

That's disturbing. 

And there's been no repudiation of this by the fencer. No calls for non-violence. Radio silence. 

She’s actually reiterated that she believes everything she originally said. She’s also blocking those who are trying to take her to task for her words. And again remember this is a public figure, a celebrity. Heck, there’s a Barbie doll named after her but still she’s willing to destroy a teacher all to sell books. She also seems to have no issue with the teacher’s Jewish ethnicity angrily being discussed on her message board. 


So going back to a question from a few days ago...What has the CCR done? 

They poured gasoline on the fire. That's what they did.

(The bold below is mine.  It is the statement from the linked post by the Executive Director of the CCR on October 8th)

https://www.communitycoalitiononrace.org/response_to_recent_incidents_of_racism_in_our_schools?fbclid=IwAR0NKF7zHpB4enz8wQL4mcEFar0rVHOuYHYmPD17ho1GzZiXto-hA-MJ2so

Instead of acting in a manner that was truly cautious and respectful of the investigation that was taking place, the CCR concluded 7 days ago that the incident happened as "described" to them by family members.   Their rush to judgment - which included a "this (the teacher's alleged action) is not acceptable"  comment on Ms. Muhammad's FB post by their Executive Director was, and remains, inexcusable.  Her comment did not contain a disclaimer that she was expressing her own views rather than those of the organization that she leads. 

While the press release covered multiple recent incidents, it is clear from the content that the focus here was the teacher involved hence the need to provide better and more frequent training to all teachers.  

Guilty!  Proclaimed the CCR.  They'll get to the facts later.

Incredibly, they then turned around in the same news release and asked everyone to be "proactive in examining our own roles and spheres of influence in which we can make a difference" while they took out a match to get the fire roaring.

One would have thought that the very group that MAPSO taxpayers help to fund specifically for their guidance through times like these would have stepped up to the plate to be even-handed while urging restraint among all.   Surely their sage advice on spheres of influence was lost on them as they wrote those now awfully hollow words.    

In the past I have supported the CCR's goals. And I still do. But this ugly episode dearly called out for the very leadership that the CCR seems to proclaim a lot from their lofty heights.. but fails to offer when it is most needed.

I certainly do not know what happened at that school. None of us really do and, as stated above, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. If the teacher did something that violated BOE policies, she should be punished accordingly, up to, and including, termination. 

But what is irrefutable is the fact that the CCR has failed to lead here by offering a balanced and unbiased response to the first reports of the incident.   Nor have they seemingly offered a strong statement condemning the ugliness that has been circling Seth Boyden and this teacher for a week now.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=community%20coaltion%20on%20race

This is an unforgivable failure on the part of  CCR leadership and, as such, their Executive Director should step down.   




Posted by Nancy Gagnier 194.20sc on October 08, 2021

Only one month into the school year, and the Coalition has already been made aware of several incidents of discrimination and bias, including racist graffiti, islamophobia, lunch-shaming of children of color, anti-Semitic graffiti, and homophobic graffiti in the schools. Most recently our community has heard from family members whose child described having her hijab pulled off by a teacher. This is unacceptable in any community, but particularly shameful in ours, which has repeatedly declared itself committed to inclusivity and integration in its schools. Each incident is distressing and demands both the care and concern of the community, as well as action that addresses bias and discrimination.

Every child deserves a learning environment that is safe and welcoming, and all of the adults in our community have a part to play in making that happen. As a community, we need to provide support to the students affected. More importantly, we need to be proactive in examining our own roles and spheres of influence in which we can make a difference in preventing these incidents from happening, including: caregivers educating their children on respecting and celebrating each other's differences, and how to be an upstander; caregivers examining their own bias and how that may be communicated to their children; and most critically, the school district taking seriously its obligations to train our educators on systemic bias.

We understand the school district and police department have begun investigations of this latest incident, but that is not enough. For the school district's Intentional Integration Initiative to be successful, regular anti-bias training for teachers and staff is necessary, as is regular anti-racism education for our students. An occasional half day workshop for teachers is not enough. This training must occur regularly, and must be regularly reinforced at the individual school and classroom level.

We urge the school district to examine its training protocols and implement changes to ensure incidents like these do not happen again; to support any students who experience any type of discrimination; and to provide ongoing supervision and feedback to educators on how to hold themselves accountable for teaching without bias.


I'm afraid the NY Post nailed it on this one.


yahooyahoo said:

The teacher's lawyer has now verified that the teacher did touch the student but "gently."
Major miscalculation by the lawyer not to admit there was contact between the student and teacher in the first statement.  I still believe it was an honest misunderstanding, but changing your story doesn't help.

From the Village Green Facebook page:

"An accusation that a teacher “forcibly” removed a second grader’s hijab has shaken the South Orange and Maplewood community in the last week, as the student’s family and friends and the teacher have offered differing accounts of the incident.

While the teacher does admit to touching the seven-year-old’s head covering in a new statement sent to Village Green, she contends that she thought the student was wearing a hoodie over her hijab, that the motion was done “gently,” and that the student “kept the hood on” when the teacher realized her mistake.

The attorney representing the student and her family, says that this account differs from a previous statement because the teacher "learned yesterday that we had confirmation [that an individual saw it happen].”"

 Flat out denying the touching only to admit it and downgrading it to “gentle” doesn’t sit right with me at all, as I already knew there was touching involved. Anxious to see how this plays out. 


Fully revising my response to Tall_Mocha. 

The part that I'm most focused on is: 

  • Did the teacher intend to push off a student's hijab (while knowing it was a hijab)?  I don't think so (based on the student's description of the event).
  • Did the teacher actually push off a student's hijab, thinking it was a hoodie? I think so (based on the student's description of the event).

If this is the case, then what would be the most productive outcomes for all involved?

The rest is lawyer-level semantics I don't actually feel like debating.


    Well obviously the teacher should be fired, run out of town, have her life ruined, get death threats and invite the scorn of 500k people.   

    If we fired every second grade teacher in the county who has ever touched a student, we would have about 6 teachers left.   


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