Serious Question: Is Trump a Nazi?

I read this article today on rawstory and it chilled me. they are talking about Donald Jr. however we all know that Trump has courted what they are calling alt-right, which used to be called FAR right, and what I call anti-semitic, racist, fascists.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/here-are-the-neo-nazi-origins-of-donald-trump-jr-s-warming-up-the-gas-chamber-comment/

It can't be coincidence and its amazing in a very bad way that our main stream media is ignoring this. How outrageous does he have to get for him to disqualify himself.

For all the crap thats been spewn on this site regarding Ibtihaj Muhammad and finger pointing regarding who is and who isnt anti-semitic, this is chilling to me.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/post/donald-trump-pepe-the-frog-and-white-supremacists-an-explainer/

This is seriously outrageous.


No, that is not a serious question. Grow up.


no, it is a serious question. his appeal to the "alt-right" and the coded language he and his clan use to appeal to them are not just coincidental. no one uses that terminology.

did you read the article or are you just thinking its not possible and no one should accuse anyone of it? you do know there are people walking around with those beliefs right?

oh, and i'm fully grown. i'd appreciate either a serious discussion or an empty thread.


I posted a link back in the Spring to an article calling Trump a Fascist and one of the responses is that it was just mud-slinging.

When a candidate begins his campaign by attacking an ethnic minority as drug peddlers and racists, continues with calling for people to be banned from entering the country based solely on their religion, encourages violence,,advocates for torture and proposes attacking the ships of a foreign country solely for dissing US personnel what term should we use to describe his politics?


If you're interested in the answer you should do some reading on the political landscape in Europe circa 1930's. While the Nazi party would be in relative terms "to the right" of many of the dominant political movements of that time and place, they would not be considered "right wing" as it describes politics in post WWII America.

Full name was "Nationalsocialistische Deutschd Arbeiterpartel", translating to "National Socialist German Worker's Party". "Socialist Workers Party?" Doesn't sound very conservative. Does sound similar to other groups domestically though.

Go read the lyrics to Horst Wessel Lied. Defining as enemies the "red" (German communists) and "reactionaries" (weirmar republic, conservative political parties). They were a socialist organization with nationalist rather than internationalist aspirations. Even CPUSA supported them until Hitler made a right turn (literally, not figuratively) and invaded Russia. Then of course they became full throated Nazi haters lol.


at first the public impression of Donald Trump is some cunning businessman with a great organization and as a tough but fair reality tv host. but when the mask comes off theres too much out there to not to be very wary of his actual thoughts and affiliations.

the things he says, lies about saying, then says again are all things that taken seriously should be enough to disqualify him from any leadership position in this country, however with the climate created and nurtured by the republican party, with great assistance from the media, has allowed someone like him to reach this height.

I wish the media would cover him with the serious scrutiny that his campaign requires and not on the "curve".


we all know that the name of something doesnt necessarily translate into what it really is. as if the patriot act was patriotic or no child left behind means benefit to the children or really anything that republicans send through congress.

just because the word socialist is in a title doesnt make the organization leftist.


Socialism, almost by definition, is internationalist. Marx wrote "Workers of all Countries, unite".

National Socialism is an oxymoron.



hoops said:

we all know that the name of something doesnt necessarily translate into what it really is. as if the patriot act was patriotic or no child left behind means benefit to the children or really anything that republicans send through congress.

just because the word socialist is in a title doesnt make the organization leftist.

I don't think you can argue too strenuously that the Nazis weren't a socialist organization and certainly advertised themselves as such (Volkswagen!).

Hitler was strongly anti-communist but only because the Bolsheviks were internationalists and that was a huge threat to the "national" part of "national socialism". He was an egalitarian AS LONG AS YOU WERE AN ARYAN. All the "benefits" of socialism were intended to accrue to "real Germans". There are really no "internationalist" socialist movements anymore except for a few crackpots claiming to be Trotskyites so by that measure.... Nazis everywhere!

What you're focusing in on is the nationalist elements of political candidates.... But again, most countries and most parties today have nationalist streaks. That doesn't make them Nazis.

EDIT TO ADD- I see your post above re: "workers of the world"... Well, tell it to the Stalinists! Was he not a follower of Marx? Why did he have poor Leon chopped up (or ice picked? Ice axed? Something like that.) Was Mao not a Marxist ("Marxism with Chinese character").... Nobody is a Marxist by your formulation.




Jackson_Fusion said:

Even CPUSA supported them until Hitler made a right turn (literally, not figuratively) and invaded Russia. Then of course they became full throated Nazi haters lol.

I don't think the American Communist Party ever "supported" Hitler and the Nazis. They followed the line of the Soviet Union so they supported the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact. I am pretty sure that some members of the American Communist Party and some sympathizers fought in the Spanish Civil War against Franco who was supported by Hitler and Mussolini.



Jackson_Fusion said:



EDIT TO ADD- I see your post above re: "workers of the world"... Well, tell it to the Stalinists! Was he not a follower of Marx? Why did he have poor Leon chopped up (or ice picked? Ice axed? Something like that.) Was Mao not a Marxist ("Marxism with Chinese character").... Nobody is a Marxist by your formulation.

Which is why the Trotskyists consider Stalin and Mao to be Fascists.

Marxism is based on Class Warfare. Nationalism unites the classes of the Nation on the basis of race or ethnicity.

Would Marx consider any of these people Marxists? This is a very academic discussion.



LOST said:



Jackson_Fusion said:



EDIT TO ADD- I see your post above re: "workers of the world"... Well, tell it to the Stalinists! Was he not a follower of Marx? Why did he have poor Leon chopped up (or ice picked? Ice axed? Something like that.) Was Mao not a Marxist ("Marxism with Chinese character").... Nobody is a Marxist by your formulation.

Which is why the Trotskyists consider Stalin and Mao to be Fascists.

Marxism is based on Class Warfare. Nationalism unites the classes of the Nation on the basis of race or ethnicity.

Would Marx consider any of these people Marxists? This is a very academic discussion.

And there you have it. I doubt they'd consider them fascists given the structure of ownership of fascism vs communism, but you are on point- nobody except academics and kids are strong form Marxists. Being all about the Volk likewise doesn't kick the Nazis out of the socialist club unless it kicks everyone else out.


Then no one is a Marxist and everyone is a socialist. OK.


The issue here is how to characterize the politics of Donald Trump. He is certainly not a socialist.

The "Alt-Right" has aligned itself with Trump, most noticeably through Bannon. The "Alt-Right" appears to include Neo-Nazis and White Supremists. Is "fascist" an appropriate term for them?


Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.


I don't think that Trump has any principles that extend beyond self-promotion. So, while I don't think he is a right-wing extremist, if saying things that appeal to these groups benefits him, he will do it.



algebra2 said:

Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.

Maybe.

Anyway here is more on the "alt-right"

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Alt-Right-fascist




LOST said:

The issue here is how to characterize the politics of Donald Trump. He is certainly not a socialist.

The "Alt-Right" has aligned itself with Trump, most noticeably through Bannon. The "Alt-Right" appears to include Neo-Nazis and White Supremists. Is "fascist" an appropriate term for them?

What is that history stack site? Who are the peeps discussing this stuff? Looks like a reddit wanna be... Not sure what the authority level is.

Are we going to tar candidates with their purported supporter's most repellant beliefs? Do the Clinton supporters really want that? Shall we define Hillary similarly? Oh the fun we could have.

Rather than trying to label people with whatever monster word we can come up with, why not discuss ideas?

It's pretty funny watching the left "brand" alt right as a dirty word. SPOILER ALERT! It's the same branding- "racist, misogynist, xenophobic, greedy, sleazy hypocritical criminals who are the reason life isn't working out like it should be- but vote for me I'll protect you."


The mainstream right has branded the (((alt right))) in similar terms as the left has.


Serious Question: Is Trump a Nazi?

Short answer? No.

Long answer? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


I'm not sure how important the label we slap on Trump is. He's astoundingly ignorant, incredibly narcissistic and thin-skinned, and he's appealing to the worst aspects of human nature. Does it matter if he's literally a Nazi?



ml1 said:

I'm not sure how important the label we slap on Trump is. He's astoundingly ignorant, incredibly narcissistic and thin-skinned, and he's appealing to the worst aspects of human nature. Does it matter if he's literally a Nazi?

Short answer? No.



algebra2 said:

Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.

Ivanka has shown herself to be quite independent. No disqualifier there.


algebra2 said:

Trump's daughter and top adviser is married to a Jew. Pretty much disqualifies him from being a Nazi.

This is seriously wrong. Having a Jewish daughter and in-laws does not by default make someone more sympathetic to Jews or rule out any possibility of being a Nazi. Many Nazis turned on their own relatives and friends in Nazi Germany. And this statement especially would not apply DJT. He is not principled or thoughtful. I would venture to say he does not care about his children as individual souls with inner lives and convictions. He only cares about them to the extent that they serve his needs.



Jackson_Fusion said:



Rather than trying to label people with whatever monster word we can come up with, why not discuss ideas?

In the context of the current presidential campaign what ideas should we discuss?



LOST said:



Jackson_Fusion said:



Rather than trying to label people with whatever monster word we can come up with, why not discuss ideas?

In the context of the current presidential campaign what ideas should we discuss?

My idea is that we say we're going to vote for Trump, then when we get to the ballot box, we realize what a stupid thing that would be and we vote for someone else instead.

I feel like nothing could be more Trumpish.



ml1 said:

I'm not sure how important the label we slap on Trump is. He's astoundingly ignorant, incredibly narcissistic and thin-skinned, and he's appealing to the worst aspects of human nature. Does it matter if he's literally a Nazi?

For an 'astoundingly ignorant' individual Trump has done exceedingly well versus his astoundingly brilliant opponents.

Perhaps he is not the one who is astoundingly ignorant.

A better discussion would be - did Trump, who until recently was a NY Democrat, really 'evolve' into a Republican, or is he really a con man who was smart enough to tap into a vein of anger at both parties which has him now in a position of possibly being our next President.


Trump is not a nazi. He's likely to be really really bad if elected. But then....



BCC said:


ml1
A better discussion would be - did Trump, who until recently was a NY Democrat, really 'evolve' into a Republican, or is he really a con man who was smart enough to tap into a vein of anger at both parties which has him now in a position of possibly being our next President.

He is definitely a con man. He promises what he cannot deliver and when questioned about it changes the subject. He also makes things up as he goes along with no care as to whether they are true or not. Isn't his entire business model a con or mostly a con.

As to Party affiliation it is not based on any belief but simply a matter of convenience. It's part of the con.

As to his ignorance a crooked used car salesman does not have to understand the mechanics of the car he is selling. He just has to make believe he understands.


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