Serious dog dilemma

[NB: cross posted in SOMA animals]

We have a serious dilemma. Rescued a mix breed 15 mos ago, who was very shy, nervous and very anxious in the presence of other dogs. Personal trainer, Prozac, 8 week class for reactive dogs at St Hubert’s: dog was improving but had bitten a few times, always and only during the same circumstances: when in the presence of other dogs on / off leashes. Never drew blood until today. An unleashed dog ran across 2 lawns at her, they were going at it, when I stepped in to pull back her by her harness, and she sunk her teeth into my ankle. The prior 3 bites were also only directed at the walker’s lower leg: re or misdirected aggression. In the house she is wonderful and actually timid around new people; never aggressive around people. 
Some family members advocate getting rid of her immediately; others advocate more patience and a better snoot loop and or muzzle. 
Please weigh in, we are struggling.


your dog bit two other people before biting you and you still allow her around other people? I’d get rid of that dog before she bites anyone else. 


It sounds like you've tried your very best to help solve the problem, and been bloodied for your trouble... Maybe it's time to let go.

-s.


She’s bitten before, and now drew blood. I wouldn’t judge you for deciding that it isn’t working out. 


On the flip side though, the description of events (unleashed dog running full speed at her) does sound scary for a dog with fear issues, so if you chose to continue to work with her and tried to find ways to walk/exercise her where she had no contact with other dogs I wouldn’t judge you for that either. 


If you do decide to give it another try (no pressure, just if it was something you were considering anyway) maybe instead of walking her on the street, exercise her in a fenced in back yard, playing fetch or something, so she wouldn’t run the risk of encountering other dogs


Some dogs just don’t get along with other dogs. If you relinquish her to a shelter, given her history of biting, there’s a strong probability that she will be euthanized. If she is only aggressive around other dogs, you could try muzzling her when taking out in public. 


My dog has some leash reactivity issues. In a St. Hubert’s group class, Amber, the trainer, recommended Dr. Levine of Fairfield NJ if people wanted more individual help. Googling that, I think her first name is Emily. She is an animal behaviorist. My dog doesn’t need this level of intervention, but you might want to confirm with St. Hubert’s and give that a try. Good luck!


If you're willing to give it a shot, give Carlos Rojas a call and talk to him. He is located in New Egypt and wow...what an amazing trainer!  My dog hated other dogs; she was gentle until she saw another dog being walked, even if across the street. Then it was all snapping, jumping and pulling. Carlos took her for about six weeks and the first time I took her walking after training, two dogs ambushed us, charging at us head on, barking and snarling. They were inches from my dog. She didn't bat an eyelash at them.



So sorry you're dealing with this disturbing behavior and that you were bitten.  We lived with a dog that had a severe reaction to other dogs, particularly when she was on leash.  By some miracle, we escaped the kind of scuffle you described, and although it was challenging to cope with a dog with this behavioral problem, we were able to keep her and were rewarded with a loving, loyal companion for almost 17 years.  Have you spoken to the person who left their dog off leash?  Is it possible to ask them not to do it?  

Best Friends in Utah recommends muzzling dogs that have aggressive reactions.  I don't know if you've tried a muzzle, but there's a process for introducing dogs to muzzles, which is is described on their website.  We used a muzzle for a while, but that was really to control her barking, which was mindbogglingly loud whenever another dog approached.  We also used the "gentle leader," which gave us more control when we needed to drag her away from an unpleasant encounter.  

Best Friends on dog aggression in general:  https://bestfriends.org/resources/dogs/aggressive-dog-resources-getting-help

Best Friends on muzzles:  https://bestfriends.org/resources/dogs/muzzles-tool-keep-everyone-safe




this is a difficult decision for you and your family that requires serious thoughts such as:

-how much more time can you seriously put into the dog on a daily basis?

-how much is your homeowners insurance and does it cover your dog in a case of KNOWN aggression?

-how comfortable will you be with the dog in 3 weeks, 5 months, or 7 years?

-are you ok with having dog around family members in a dinner/party/get together situation?

-are you comfortable ever boarding this dog if you want to go on vacation? If so where would dog be accepted?


My family went through this, and even though we were heartbroken, giving up the dog was the best for our family.  After a bit of a break, we now have the dog we were hoping for and we are all much calmer and safer.


I highly recommend Dr. Emily Levine for this kind of issue. It would be worth it to go to her even just once for her evaluation and thoughts. Downside: She costs. She is worth every penny, but if you don't have those pennies might not be an option.

We went once, and she pointed us in a different direction appropriate for our dog. She is very honest, matter of fact, and will give you all the options. 

As others have said, no judgement whichever way you choose to go. It's a tough situation without easy answers.


I would give the dog another chance.  You've only had her for 15 months and like spontaneous said, her behavior sounds typical for some dogs, especially for rescues, and that's ok.  I have 2 mixed breed rescues.  One hates men, but adores children and cats; the other is a lot like your rescue - very nervous around all people and aggressive toward other dogs.  Knowing my dogs the way I do, I never let them off the leash outside and never let other people pet them, because I can't predict their reaction.  Both are very loving, faithful companions at home, though.

IMHO I'd give her more time to adjust and at some point you may simply have to accept your dog's personality outside the home.  My thoughts would be different if you'd said that your dog is also aggressive at home.  Of course, no judgement as only you know your situation firsthand.

Good luck.


Unless you can train the dog to never bite, I would  not keep.  


I really do not understand why a choice needs to be made. You are in control of where this dog goes. If there is no problem EXCEPT with other dogs, keep the dog out of any situation that involves other dogs. Instead of walks, play in the back yard to get exercise. Both of my dogs are trained to do their business in the backyard and do not need walks. Use brain games (Brain Games for Dogs is an excellent book) to exercise the dog's mind if physical exercise is limited. When going to the vet, let the receptionist know that your dog has dog problems and leave him in the car until called and enter through the back door. By making creative choices you can keep this dog out of harms way, and he will thrive in your home. 



I understand love for a pet, I do. But a dog with a history of biting shouldn’t be allowed to be around people. Period. Unless you really plan to never let this dog leave your yard/ home, then I think the only choice is to let the dog go. And I’ll double down on that opinion if you have children in your home or will have children ever visiting your home. Why take such a risk? Peoples’ safety trumps your feelings for your dog.


It sounds like a difficult situation. Not everyone, in Maplewood or elsewhere, has a fenced yard, so letting the dog out only in the yard isn't an option. The OP seems to have made it clear that her dog was leashed and harnessed, and it is, in my opinion, very difficult to say that you cannot take a properly leashed dog for a walk. That said, once a dog has bitten someone, no matter what the circumstances (and I know it is as unfortunate aspect of choosing rescue dogs), I think the future is questionable unless there is a way to give the dog full freedom of movement while maintaining safety for people and other pets. Big yard. Tall, solid fence. Lots of human or canine companionship. No supposedly benign neglect. The issue of vacations is a valid one too--you can't really board a dog with that kind of behavior issue, or take him/her with you, or put a paid walker in the position of being responsible for possible injury to others.

Having a family member who was attacked by a dog that leapt off a pickup truck several years ago, resulting not just in significant bites but also a badly broken leg, I take a pretty dim view of repeat offenders no matter how sad their past. This event occurred in Virginia, which has liberal limits on whether dogs are considered dangerous (that is, multiple bites are okay) and low ceilings for damages determined by lawsuits (so not a huge risk for insurers). I do not know what New Jersey's laws are in this instance. Our own dog, who unfortunately had to be euthanized for medical reasons a couple of months ago, was a leash-walked, super-social, and sweet-natured dog; I do regret that he rarely got to run free except at day care and later in our small but fenced side yard after we moved away from Maplewood, and I think he might have liked to have a large fenced yard for the occasional triumphant run; he enjoyed the large (multi-acre) dog park in Sussex County but not the little one at the top of Claremont, where the big dogs were not always kind and their owner weren't consistently mindful). We always walked him, even in bad weather; he had a rain jacket and a winter coat, and the idea of cleaning poop out of a yard or wondering wether urine would burn the grass never appealed to us, and he really enjoyed seeing the world, I think. People knew him, and mostly he got a good response from the dogs we met on walks--the rare off-leash dogs were an issue for him as were occasional poorly managed large dog straining at the leash as we approached, but mostly, both in Maplewood and afterward, his walks were good for him and for his people, opportunities for both exercise and bonding. 

So I have no real advice for the OP other than to reiterate that it's not a good idea to find unlimited excuses, no matter how well intentioned, for a dog that bites. If finances allow  consultation with the expert recommended several posts up might be helpful, but sometimes, sadly, you have to admit defeat and find a solution that is humane for the dog and safe for his/her people and their


I feel for you, I really do. 

Several years ago when we rescued our first ½ pit mix, she was brought back to shelter 3x's by families. My heart broke for her. We got her and like you, trained her, at our old house we had a shared drive so couldn't be fenced in which was an issue, and we worked with her. We had another dog which she got along well with, but she was a handful. Never bit but was extremely aggressive and people were often fearful of her. She was afraid and she was nervous and she needed extra attention, which we gave -- and it wasn't easy. I had two small children, a house another dog and a cat. We never were worried about her harming the children; she was very loving with them and the cat. Her issue seemed to be with older children and adults.

I walked her CONSTANTLY. She needed to be exercised because IMO, she was anxious. I purchased a shock collar for her because when around other dogs, she would freak and become aggressive. All that to say is she was a part of our family for years and we loved her. She was kooky, and funny and greedy and loving and smart. One day she went out to sun and passed away peacefully under our oak tree in the back yard -- one of her fav spots. 

There is hope for these types of dogs. They suffer from trauma and fear. I hope you can work it out; sounds like you really want to. If not, no judgement. Sometimes there just isn't a happy medium. 


I’ve never used them, but there is a place in Frenchtown that from web reviews seems to be able to work with very fearful dogs. Pro Canine Center.  Just in case you wanted a second/third professional opinion before coming to a decision.





In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.