Question: Was it Obama or Trump?

mem

I was in a recent conversation where it was insisted that Obama was ruining the economy during his term and trump rescued it, and that trump is the reason the stocks and 401Ks etc. are "finally" up. I argued that economies and the stock market need years to build, and and that the economic growth turnaround started during the Obama administration. I was shot down, badly. Anyone? 


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ml1

the people arguing with you are either being willfully dishonest, or they don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about.  The economy overall and the stock market specifically have been trending positively for several years.  This year is a continuation of trends that go back to the great recession.

Not to mention the fact that less than a year into his term, there's no way Trump could have made any policy changes that would have had a measurable effect yet.

The people you were arguing with were wrong.


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ml1

here's an example.  S&P 500 trend since 2009:



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ml1

here's per capita GDP growth from the recession through last year.


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South

I think it will be hard to argue with them, because they're not accepting facts right now.  Maybe ask them if they can identify what exactly Trump has done to cause this "turnaround" once he was elected.  Either they'll come up with something that they can't prove happened, or they'll stick with "more confidence" as their only argument.


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mem

This supporter insisted that they "suffered for 8 years under Obama". When I challenged this, I got the BS about the 401k increasing dramatically after trump became president, and how business is finally booming everywhere. Foaming at the mouth was initiated when I stated that I miss Obama desperately. These people are rabid.


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Jamie

Rolling back regulations and promising major tax cuts may be contributing to a bump in the market.  Obama brought stability to the market - time will tell what the Trump effect will be.  Sad part is that people equate a stock market boom to more jobs and money for everyone - shareholders make out like bandits, the rest - who knows.  The market will take full advantage while Goldman Sachs runs the WH.


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ml1

DJIA trend right up until today.  This is a trend that's been going on for 8 years.  Only a fool or a partisan hack would attribute this to Trump.


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BG9

Its a time waster trying to enlighten the remaining Trump supporters with facts.

Just like it was a time waster trying to convince some that Obama was born here and that he is not a Muslim.

They are immune to facts shown them. To them, your facts are fake news. They have their "facts", immutable. Showing them graphic charts will not make a difference.


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Dave

It's hard for Trump supporters to dispute this fact:  Obama's budget ran up until the end of September 2017.  Trump's timeline starts this month.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_federal_budget


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drummerboy

yes, your conversation partner either knows nothing or is lying. Mostly though, they're an idiot.

mem said:

I was in a recent conversation where it was insisted that Obama was ruining the economy during his term and trump rescued it, and that trump is the reason the stocks and 401Ks etc. are "finally" up. I argued that economies and the stock market need years to build, and and that the economic growth turnaround started during the Obama administration. I was shot down, badly. Anyone? 



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BG9


dave said:

It's hard for Trump supporters to dispute this fact:  Obama's budget ran up until the end of September 2017.  Trump's timeline starts this month.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_federal_budget

Dispute it they will. And, for them, it won't be hard. Special reality.

They will quote the stock market, will quote the jobs Trump has supposedly saved such as with Carrier, etc.

We can pat each other on our backs showing easily retrieved facts. But we're talking to the choir. Doing this and showing this won't change Trump supporters.

ps - at what point does this irrational trust and love become a cult? We had the cargo cults, Jonestown cult, etc. Just look at this screaming Trump supporter.


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ml1

I didn't think this was to preach to the choir. I thought it was to reassure mem that she's correct and her friends are not. We also need to reach out to the sane people who are being gaslighted by the Trumpists 


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LOST

What is that saying?

"You cannot reason someone out of a position that he did not reason into"


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drummerboy

It's clearly a cult already.

BG9 said:



dave said:

It's hard for Trump supporters to dispute this fact:  Obama's budget ran up until the end of September 2017.  Trump's timeline starts this month.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_federal_budget

Dispute it they will. And, for them, it won't be hard. Special reality.

They will quote the stock market, will quote the jobs Trump has supposedly saved such as with Carrier, etc.

We can pat each other on our backs showing easily retrieved facts. But we're talking to the choir. Doing this and showing this won't change Trump supporters.

ps - at what point does this irrational trust and love become a cult? We had the cargo cults, Jonestown cult, etc. Just look at this screaming Trump supporter.



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Dave

The only way Trump can win again is if the DNC foists Hillary on us again (yes, foists, as in the recent CYE episode).  I don't think they're that stupid, but some days I do wonder.


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Joseph

As I offered elsewhere, why  - regardless of whom to credit - wouldn't WS go wild at the prospect of slackened rules, the sabotage of the EPA, and WS folks in the cabinet and other offices. Must feel like the Wild West again. Yeehaw!


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John


BG9 said:

Its a time waster trying to enlighten the remaining Trump supporters with facts.

Just like it was a time waster trying to convince some that Obama was born here and that he is not a Muslim.

They are immune to facts shown them. To them, your facts are fake news. They have their "facts", immutable. Showing them graphic charts will not make a difference.

My new Tee shirt came in the mail today....

"When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead.

It's just difficult for others.

It's the same when you're stupid."



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BG9


drummerboy said:

It's clearly a cult already.

BG9 said:



dave said:

It's hard for Trump supporters to dispute this fact:  Obama's budget ran up until the end of September 2017.  Trump's timeline starts this month.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_federal_budget

Dispute it they will. And, for them, it won't be hard. Special reality.

They will quote the stock market, will quote the jobs Trump has supposedly saved such as with Carrier, etc.

We can pat each other on our backs showing easily retrieved facts. But we're talking to the choir. Doing this and showing this won't change Trump supporters.

ps - at what point does this irrational trust and love become a cult? We had the cargo cults, Jonestown cult, etc. Just look at this screaming Trump supporter.

For sure:



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