Patch blog/Steve Latz crossing the line? archived
Apr 23, 2012 at 4:41am Edited
Straw, there are quite a few people on both sides who owe apologies as a result of this campaign.
max_weisenfeld said:
Straw, there are quite a few people on both sides who owe apologies as a result of this campaign.
Perhaps, but the use of the race card was a new low in local SOMA politics.
It is time to make sure our schools have an efficient, coherent and clear curriculum. We need to encourage our students to start engaging in politics, science and society. I believe our curriculum lacks content, and is a major cause for inadequate student performance. Our public schools are doing a poor job of preparing students of all backgrounds to take on the responsibilities of participating in a Democracy.
That said, we need to combat the nihilism plaguing our youth. We need teachers who are educated, not trained. We need a strong BOE who works together to focus on developing an explicit curriculum, instead of instituting their own personal agendas.
This debate is distracting us from the real problem. And in that regard, I believe that CCR and Steve Latz did these towns a great disservice. Should we all be waiting for an apology? I don't think so. Instead, let's focus on holding those we elected accountable and on improving our public schools in any way we can.
That said, we need to combat the nihilism plaguing our youth. We need teachers who are educated, not trained. We need a strong BOE who works together to focus on developing an explicit curriculum, instead of instituting their own personal agendas.
This debate is distracting us from the real problem. And in that regard, I believe that CCR and Steve Latz did these towns a great disservice. Should we all be waiting for an apology? I don't think so. Instead, let's focus on holding those we elected accountable and on improving our public schools in any way we can.
strawberry said:
max_weisenfeld said:
Straw, there are quite a few people on both sides who owe apologies as a result of this campaign.
Perhaps, but the use of the race card was a new low in local SOMA politics.
While both sides had their obtuse followers, I found the actions of an elected official from SO to be the most disturbing in this whole ball of wax. A certain SO Trustee dispersed under the guise of some kind of "Village update" email his staunch support for one slate over another. While he certainly had the right to endorse whomever he wanted, intermingling that endorsement with town-wide information and updates was totally unethical. Furthermore, if one wants to see where gasoline was thrown on this raging fire all one had to do was see this same trustee copy and paste the inciteful email on this message board for all to see, almost begging the flames to be fanned to new heights.
This sort of behavior I find to be the most repugnant because as an elected official, a public figure, a higher standard of conduct should be expected. Alas, this individual has shown a complete inability to act in such a manner. Frankly, the 20 something VP has more class and maturity in his little finger then this yutz has in his whole body.
Doback, how is it different from what VP Torpey sent out back in november, which I am pasting here. Under the guise of a village update for the storms, he then went on to state his positions on all of the election items for the November election. You really should check your history before name calling...
"Friend -- This past week as been a trying time for many of us. We started it with over 6,000 people without power and then saw one of the largest power restoration efforts in any recent history. Although the Village has no formal role in managing utility companies, we spent our week working hard lobbying for South Orange residents and trying to bring as much information out to the community as possible and ensure PSE&G would be accountable for the promises they made. You can read the latest update about debris pickup and storm cleanup below. But first, information about tomorrow.
Today I’m writing to you to remind you of the importance of voting tomorrow. Coming from someone who won an election by only 14 votes, don’t let anyone ever tell you that your vote doesn’t matter. Not only will South Orange residents get the chance to vote on county and state officials, we have three important ballot questions to gain public input from.
The first is changing the name of South Orange from the Township of South Orange Village back to South Orange Village. The ‘township’ name qualified us for particular federal funding years ago, but is no longer relevant or in any way beneficial.
The second is to change the name of Village President to Mayor and Board of Trustees to Council. No one outside of South Orange really knows what either of those is, and I believe we lose valuable external credibility by having to always explain “Well, that’s like the Mayor/Council” whenever we are introduced anywhere. We can continue to respect our historic roots by using the ‘Village’ prefix before the titles, and by changing the name of the town back to Village, but let’s call these positions what they are.
The third is to allow the Board and Village President stipends, with no other benefits. This can and should be done in a way that no elected official can vote their own payments and that it is as difficult as possible to increase them over time. We currently have a political system in place that is not open to any citizen. Due to the high costs of being in office (including even just travel expenses to a workshop or government event) we prevent or discourage those outside of wealthier income brackets to serve. Every town in Essex County with a population above 15,000 people provides their elected officials a stipend, South Orange is the only one that does not. Only three towns in Essex don’t provide compensation, for example Essex Fells, with a population 2,113. It would cost approximately one to two cents per taxpayer to help allow anyone that wants to run for office, no matter their socio-economic status, to do so. Supporting this action will uphold a founding democratic principle to our form of government - that government service isn’t just for the wealthy or well-funded, it is for anyone with leadership qualities and good ideas.
Read more about why it is so important to remove class barriers to public office in my editorial here. You can also find the general summaries and interpretive statements on the Village website here. Don’t forget to get out and vote tomorrow!
Alex
PS here is the latest on storm information: http://southorange.org/notices.asp?guid=6ff1157d
Alex Torpey
http://www.alextorpey.com/"
"Friend -- This past week as been a trying time for many of us. We started it with over 6,000 people without power and then saw one of the largest power restoration efforts in any recent history. Although the Village has no formal role in managing utility companies, we spent our week working hard lobbying for South Orange residents and trying to bring as much information out to the community as possible and ensure PSE&G would be accountable for the promises they made. You can read the latest update about debris pickup and storm cleanup below. But first, information about tomorrow.
Today I’m writing to you to remind you of the importance of voting tomorrow. Coming from someone who won an election by only 14 votes, don’t let anyone ever tell you that your vote doesn’t matter. Not only will South Orange residents get the chance to vote on county and state officials, we have three important ballot questions to gain public input from.
The first is changing the name of South Orange from the Township of South Orange Village back to South Orange Village. The ‘township’ name qualified us for particular federal funding years ago, but is no longer relevant or in any way beneficial.
The second is to change the name of Village President to Mayor and Board of Trustees to Council. No one outside of South Orange really knows what either of those is, and I believe we lose valuable external credibility by having to always explain “Well, that’s like the Mayor/Council” whenever we are introduced anywhere. We can continue to respect our historic roots by using the ‘Village’ prefix before the titles, and by changing the name of the town back to Village, but let’s call these positions what they are.
The third is to allow the Board and Village President stipends, with no other benefits. This can and should be done in a way that no elected official can vote their own payments and that it is as difficult as possible to increase them over time. We currently have a political system in place that is not open to any citizen. Due to the high costs of being in office (including even just travel expenses to a workshop or government event) we prevent or discourage those outside of wealthier income brackets to serve. Every town in Essex County with a population above 15,000 people provides their elected officials a stipend, South Orange is the only one that does not. Only three towns in Essex don’t provide compensation, for example Essex Fells, with a population 2,113. It would cost approximately one to two cents per taxpayer to help allow anyone that wants to run for office, no matter their socio-economic status, to do so. Supporting this action will uphold a founding democratic principle to our form of government - that government service isn’t just for the wealthy or well-funded, it is for anyone with leadership qualities and good ideas.
Read more about why it is so important to remove class barriers to public office in my editorial here. You can also find the general summaries and interpretive statements on the Village website here. Don’t forget to get out and vote tomorrow!
Alex
PS here is the latest on storm information: http://southorange.org/notices.asp?guid=6ff1157d
Alex Torpey
http://www.alextorpey.com/"
I have to disagree with you there Dr.Doback,
Michael Goldberg (you may as well just use his name) endorsed three candidates using his own e-mail address to do so. There was nothing hidden and his agenda was very clear. He was asking his supporters to vote for the candidates who most impressed him. Frankly, I wish some of the other local SOMA politicians would show the type of guts Michael does. Instead, most just sit there silently hoping not to rock the boat.
Personally, Michael's endorsement helped me make my decision.
Michael Goldberg (you may as well just use his name) endorsed three candidates using his own e-mail address to do so. There was nothing hidden and his agenda was very clear. He was asking his supporters to vote for the candidates who most impressed him. Frankly, I wish some of the other local SOMA politicians would show the type of guts Michael does. Instead, most just sit there silently hoping not to rock the boat.
Personally, Michael's endorsement helped me make my decision.
Huge difference, IMO, between Torpey reminding voters about 3 municipal questions that had absolutley no binding effect on what the SO BOT would do and what Goldberg did in specifically endorsing a slate amidst some kind of "village update". I have no problem with him endorsing whoever he wants, just like I wouldn't have a problem with any local politician endorsing someone they agreed with, just don't do it in the course of some kind of village update email that lends at least some credence that this is THE official endorsement from the Village of SO. It was just the latest in a series of ethical lapses that I've seen from this Trustee beginning with his petty verbal assault in this forum on VP Torpey regarding the acquisition of a jacket for his EMS coordinator duties.
Again, if you want to get on Latz and the rest of the de-levelers who were race-baiting, don't make the PEB supporters, including elected officials like Goldberg, seem like their hands were totally clean in this whole episode.
Also, to my knowledge, Torpey, nor any other self respecting elected official, posted the inciteful email on MOL or anywhere else - Goldberg did.
Again, if you want to get on Latz and the rest of the de-levelers who were race-baiting, don't make the PEB supporters, including elected officials like Goldberg, seem like their hands were totally clean in this whole episode.
Also, to my knowledge, Torpey, nor any other self respecting elected official, posted the inciteful email on MOL or anywhere else - Goldberg did.
Sir,
I believe you mock racism and its victims by attempting to equate race bating with an EMS jacket.
I believe you mock racism and its victims by attempting to equate race bating with an EMS jacket.
Apr 23, 2012 at 10:41am Edited
Have any of you calling for Steve Latz to apologize read this piece on the "Bounds of Civil Discourse?" There is nothing civil about it and It's way more offensive than anything said by Lisa Davis. In fact, based on some recent MOL posts about people moving to our community waiting for the demographics to change, Ms. Davis might be right on the money. It seems, we need the CCR more than ever.
Perhaps we should double their funding. There is a lot of work that needs to be done around here.
Perhaps we should double their funding. There is a lot of work that needs to be done around here.
nan said:
Perhaps we should double their funding. There is a lot of work that needs to be done around here.
I'm quite certain that won't be happening.
nan said:
Have any of you calling for Steve Latz to apologize read this piece on the "Bounds of Civil Discourse?" There is nothing civil about it and It's way more offensive than anything said by Lisa Davis. In fact, based on some recent MOL posts about people moving to our community waiting for the demographics to change, Ms. Davis might be right on the money. It seems, we need the CCR more than ever.
n
Perhaps we should double their funding. There is a lot of work that needs to be done around here.
Well, I read the blog post about Civility and cannot see what is objectional about it. Nan, your lies, and your allies lies are transparent, and you are at risk of loosing your credibility. Consider that if you had truth on your side the citizens would see that deleveling was working, and it made sense. Here is the truth: deleveling has no pedagogic value. None. Zero. It is an educational FAD, like multi-age classrooms, open campuses and ebonics. It will make teaching a class more difficult, and the ciriculum less targeted to a classes needs.
Nan's lies, the CCR's lies, the Delevelers lies: Their Shared Talking Points
*there is no flexibility between levels and no clear guidelines to advance
*deleveling 7th Grade are modest changes with no plans to delevel the Columbia
*we allow the data to accumulate and assess delelveings success before further deleveling
*we have a "super-majority" to further delevel as the Spring 2010 election was a mandate for deleveling
* we have been talking about deleveling for years and letting these plans known to the community
*deleveled classes are "Level-Up" and taught at the Honors Level
*we trained teachers in "differentiated" instruction
*the CCR has no official postion on deleveling, nor supports any BOE candidates
*we are appalled at the racism of those who oppose deleveling
*deleveling is required to provide academic challenges for the black students
*whites believe black students gains come at the expense of high achieving white students
The uncivility and subsequent ground-roots movement to stop deleveling started with these lies and the assault on the average citizen's sense of decency and fairness.
Apr 23, 2012 at 12:05pm Edited
You are accusing me of lying? About what?
I'm not surprised you find agreement with that blog. Since you are so big on data and evidence, I'm sure you can show me the report showing that low school achievement in our distinct is the result of single parent homes? I'm really curious about this because my child attended Clinton School at the time when it was majority African American and low performing. Every year, as a parent, I received, the class list with names and addresses of parents. Don't remember hardly a one that only listed one name.
So, I'm questioning this supposed "fact" presented in the Patch article you accept as truth. And while you at it, maybe you can find out what Fredrick Douglas really thought about leveling cause I'm thinking maybe he was not interviewed on the subject of which he supposedly speaks.
I'm not surprised you find agreement with that blog. Since you are so big on data and evidence, I'm sure you can show me the report showing that low school achievement in our distinct is the result of single parent homes? I'm really curious about this because my child attended Clinton School at the time when it was majority African American and low performing. Every year, as a parent, I received, the class list with names and addresses of parents. Don't remember hardly a one that only listed one name.
So, I'm questioning this supposed "fact" presented in the Patch article you accept as truth. And while you at it, maybe you can find out what Fredrick Douglas really thought about leveling cause I'm thinking maybe he was not interviewed on the subject of which he supposedly speaks.
Apr 23, 2012 at 12:09pm Edited
CM:
If "whites believe black students' gains come at the expense of high achieving white students" weren't true, why would you be concerned?
If "whites believe black students' gains come at the expense of high achieving white students" weren't true, why would you be concerned?
@nan, I wrote the piece in question and although you can fairly call me a pompous windbag if you want, I hope you're not trying to connect me to the comments about realtors promising demographics changes. I don't want to see demographics changes in Maplewood, but I do want to see changes in the way that politics are conducted in this town.
Like probably everybody else in this place, I want to move beyond this contentious election and talk about something else. But I don't feel comfortable doing that with what seems to me to be a big open wound festering until the next election.
It seems to me that if we can't resolve this issue about the way we debate each other, we will have an incredibly hard time getting anything done for our kids.
Like probably everybody else in this place, I want to move beyond this contentious election and talk about something else. But I don't feel comfortable doing that with what seems to me to be a big open wound festering until the next election.
It seems to me that if we can't resolve this issue about the way we debate each other, we will have an incredibly hard time getting anything done for our kids.
elspeth said:
If "[the Pai/Eastman/Bennet side believes] black students' gains come at the expense of high achieving white students" weren't true, why would you be concerned?
Because I would live in a town with people who think something so reprehensible about me.
nan said:
And while [you're] at it, maybe you can find out what Fredrick Douglas really thought about leveling cause I'm thinking maybe he was not interviewed on the subject of which he supposedly speaks.
What do you think Wayne Eastman is talking about when he says "we are all levelers, we are all delevelers"?
politics are not going to change...we may (or may not) be more enlightened as a community in some regards than other communities, but not when it comes to politics...its business and ideology as usual there. No healing is going to occur when there are people on both sides who truly believe the things they say as opposed to saying them to try to get some votes and political value from fear and shock value. Its not so much festering as much as strategizing, and believe it that for some, the planning has already begun.
Personally I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize that the election is over and if we really want to do something to benefit our kids and our schools, folks should stop rehashing all of this and focus on the future. I'm really getting tired of it all - from both sides!
Make your (positive/constructive) input known to the folks on the BOE and to Brian Osborne - Their email and official snail mail addresses are out there. Or go to BOE meetings and participate in the Public Speaks.
Volunteer!!! - For your child's or your neighbor's children's school or ANY school or for ACHIEVE or the Parenting Center or some other organization working to improve education and other services for our children
Donate - to any of the above
Consider running for BOE next time if you feel strongly and have time and skills to bring to the table.
But sniping about who was right or wrong in a nasty election that is now over and done with won't help anyone.
Make your (positive/constructive) input known to the folks on the BOE and to Brian Osborne - Their email and official snail mail addresses are out there. Or go to BOE meetings and participate in the Public Speaks.
Volunteer!!! - For your child's or your neighbor's children's school or ANY school or for ACHIEVE or the Parenting Center or some other organization working to improve education and other services for our children
Donate - to any of the above
Consider running for BOE next time if you feel strongly and have time and skills to bring to the table.
But sniping about who was right or wrong in a nasty election that is now over and done with won't help anyone.
@sac, normally I would agree with you, but I'm afraid that this is going to be a dark cloud over any positive efforts going forward.
Maybe so, but I don't see how any of the discussion that has happened so far (or seems likely to happen) is going to lighten that cloud any.
elspeth said:
CM:
If "whites believe black students' gains come at the expense of high achieving white students" weren't true, why would you be concerned?
No person's academic failure or success comes at anyone elses expense, these are individual achievements that can be attained by any one student who applies themselves, however, getting rid of Honors Classes retards all students potential for growth by putting a ceiling on their level of challenges.
Hank, when people believe the things they say despite the evidence that the opposite is true, and the spin the truth to fit their fixed conclusion, these are dangerous idealogues, and not citizens acting in good faith.
My hunch is that these same idealogues vote for more deleveling while they still have the votes. I fear this is the next move for these insincere actors.
Sorry to disagree Hank, Idealogues, as defined, have fixed ideas that do not yield to any evidence to the contrary.
If there were evidence that deleveling improved failing students while not impairing the growth advanced students, I would whole-heartedly support it.
If there were evidence that deleveling improved failing students while not impairing the growth advanced students, I would whole-heartedly support it.
CrazyModerate said:
Sorry to disagree Hank, Idealogues, as defined, have fixed ideas that do not yield to any evidence to the contrary.
If there were evidence that deleveling improved failing students while not impairing the growth advanced students, I would whole-heartedly support it.
right, and there are surely ideologues on the other end of this discussion in our community. Try being moderate....you'll see it too.
sac said:
Personally I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and realize that the election is over and if we really want to do something to benefit our kids and our schools, folks should stop rehashing all of this and focus on the future. I'm really getting tired of it all - from both sides!
Make your (positive/constructive) input known to the folks on the BOE and to Brian Osborne - Their email and official snail mail addresses are out there. Or go to BOE meetings and participate in the Public Speaks.
Volunteer!!! - For your child's or your neighbor's children's school or ANY school or for ACHIEVE or the Parenting Center or some other organization working to improve education and other services for our children
Donate - to any of the above
Consider running for BOE next time if you feel strongly and have time and skills to bring to the table.
But sniping about who was right or wrong in a nasty election that is now over and done with won't help anyone.
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
Im going to bump my other thread that I started offering people an opportunity to make a positive contribution, regardless of how they voted and felt...I did get one positive response from someone who was upset about the tone of the campaign, and approached me and made a contribution although I dont think she even has a kid at the high school. Once again Esiders, thanks for your generosity...of financial support and spirit.
Apr 23, 2012 at 2:33pm Edited
CrazyModerate said:
If there were evidence that deleveling improved failing students while not impairing the growth advanced students, I would whole-heartedly support it.
Hank is correct in stating that there ideologues on the other end of this discussion. These ideologues are backed by studies such as the one I have posted below;
http://www.colorado.edu/education/faculty/kevinwelner/Docs/Burris,Wiley,Welner_Accountability_Rigor_and_Detracking.pdf
There are several other studies I can link you to.
KTrama said:
CrazyModerate said:
If there were evidence that deleveling improved failing students while not impairing the growth advanced students, I would whole-heartedly support it.
Hank is correct in stating that there ideologues on the other end of this discussion. These ideologues are backed by studies such as the one I have posted below;
http://www.colorado.edu/education/faculty/kevinwelner/Docs/Burris,Wiley,Welner_Accountability_Rigor_and_Detracking.pdf
There are several other studies I can link you to.
So, ideologues "on the other end of this discussion" are defined as people who publish studies you don't agree with?
Apr 23, 2012 at 3:11pm Edited
nan said:
KTrama said:
CrazyModerate said:
If there were evidence that deleveling improved failing students while not impairing the growth advanced students, I would whole-heartedly support it.
Hank is correct in stating that there ideologues on the other end of this discussion. These ideologues are backed by studies such as the one I have posted below;
http://www.colorado.edu/education/faculty/kevinwelner/Docs/Burris,Wiley,Welner_Accountability_Rigor_and_Detracking.pdf
There are several other studies I can link you to.
So, ideologues "on the other end of this discussion" are defined as people who publish studies you don't agree with?
This study provides evidence that detracking the system improved failing students grades while not impairing the growth of advanced students. That does not mean it is guaranteed to work in MSO, but that there are successful models out there. That said, there are studies that attempt to prove the opposite. It is our responsibility to examine the evidence objectively, and form our own educated opinions.
I'd like to see the focus of the discussion shift from regrettable campaign tactics to curriculum content.
You can not reply as this discussion is Closed!
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I agree with the author. Mr. Latz owes our community an apology.