NJ Umemployment Quiting Exceptions

Where can I find a list of the exceptions to the "Quit rule" for NJ unemployment?

Friend has worked same sales job (mix of inside and outside sales) for 7 years with a $60k a year base salary plus commission. Travel expenses were covered in full when she travels 1-2x a month for a few days. 

Employer wants to switch this person to the new payment structure they are hiring people at (for a slightly different sales role- more outside than inside). It's more of a contractor model- no base salary, no benefits, commission only and no reimbursement for travel expenses. (Sounds awesome, huh?)

She may quit if they push this. Right now it was presented as an offer.

I read that most states have a protection where you can still collect if you quit due to dramatic changes in salary/compensation or hours or role. Can't seem to confirm anywhere that NJ has that protection?

TIA


Call the unemployment office and ask.


that's super helpful. Never would have thought of that.

Would love to hear if anyone knows or has experienced this.


Can I be disqualified from collecting.

Yes.  You may be disqualified if you voluntarily terminate your employment (quit your job), for misconduct, for failure to apply for or accept suitable work, certain types of severance or other benefits, fraud, and failure to report to the Department of Labor when required.

What is Voluntary Termination of Employment?

In New Jersey, if you leave your job “without good cause attributable to the work” (you quit), you are disqualified from unemployment benefits.  However, if you were compelled to leave your job, that separation from employment is considered involuntary.  For example, if you left your job based upon issues related to safety, unhealthy working conditions, your own physical or mental health conditions, or fraud or criminal conduct being engaged in by the employer, your departure would likely be considered involuntary.

What is Misconduct?

Misconduct is fact sensitive and depends on the circumstances of the conduct.  Misconduct is improper, intentional, malicious and either a deliberate violation of the employer’s rules or a disregard of standards of behavior which the employer can expect from an employee.  Unexcused absences, refusal to comply with lawful orders given by an employer and willful violations of safety standards may qualify as misconduct.  If it is determined that you engaged in misconduct which resulted in your termination, you are disqualified for benefits for the week of discharge or suspension and the five weeks immediately thereafter.  If the conduct rises to the level or gross misconduct, en employee is disqualified in the same manner as if he or she voluntarily left without good cause.  Examples of gross misconduct may include excessive absenteeism or criminal conduct.

How do I File a Claim for Unemployment Benefits?

If you find yourself eligible for unemployment, you can contact the Department of Labor and Workforce Development at one of the regional offices, by telephone or at their website http://lwd.state.nj.us/labor/index.html.  The claim is then examined by the Division who contacts your most recent employer.  If the employer fails to respond to the Division within 10 days, the Division will rely on the information provided by you and any other sources available.  After that time period, the Division will make an initial determination.

What if I am Denied Benefits?

If you are denied benefits, or if your ex-employer believes that you shouldn’t receive unemployment benefits an appeal of the initial determination can be made by filing an appeal within seven (7) calendar days after delivery of the initial determination or ten (10) days after the notification is mailed.  If you failure to adhere to this time period will bar your appeal.  An appeal tribunal will schedule a hearing to present argument and you may bring an attorney to the hearing.  If you feel that the decision of the appeal tribunal is incorrect, you may file an appeal with the Board of Review within ten (10) days after receipt of the decision.    The last appeal is to the New Jersey Appellate Division.  Notices of appeal with the Appellate Division must be filed within 45 days following the decision of the Board of Review.

Many unemployment matters are fact sensitive and require adherence to strict deadlines.  If you have been denied unemployment benefits and want to appeal the denial, you should contact an attorney immediately following your denial.  If you are an employer and believe that an employer has wrongfully applied for or been granted unemployment benefits, an attorney can help oppose the application or file an appeal to prevent an increase in your contributions to the unemployment contribution fund.  If you have an unemployment issue, do not delay!  Seek the assistance of an experienced attorney immediately.

By Timothy J. Ford, Esq.


thanks but I read that (what I could find on-line) and it's not getting at my question. If I Google, I see a lot that says things like although unemployment is typically not covered if you quit,  "most states have exceptions like gross change in pay, hours or job role". I'm trying to find out if NJ is one of those states.

And telling someone to call is sort of silly. That could be the answer to everything and there'd be no purpose to a chat board. 


Tone check police?

breal said:

Tone check?



I also got to the N.J.D.P.L. website. There is a further link beyond the "good cause" link that says if the cause of your leaving is "compelling," you will be given a hearing. It would seem to me that a severe reduction in income and factors to determine that income would be compelling: you are going from a guaranteed income to an income based on "chance." 

I would consider that to be "compelling" but I am not a hearing examiner.


thank you, that's what I was looking for. I'm guessing this is how it's handled- wrapped under a broad term and determined at a hearing but she was hoping for more of a definitive answer. Thanks


Better --- lsnjlaw.org.   In the search bar, upper right hand corner, enter, June 2015.


My summary: If the new terms of employment are less favorable (undefined), if the new wages, including benefits are less than 80% of current, these are reasons to qualify.

 You may have to appeal if you get a negative decision. 

I guess this is best if there is a written or emailed copy of the new proposal. 

I am not a lawyer but there are links to phone numbers of N.J. Legal Service's labor department where you can get a summation of your rights.

The problem seems to be that you won't really know if you qualify until you actually quit and file.



Just a point, NJ Unemployment telephone lines were often jammed when I tried to get through to them about five years ago.  Perhaps it has changed, but I ended up calling and redialing minutes before 8, when the message said they opened at 8, to dialing exactly at 8, and got a message that lines are busy call back later.  After the third day, I got through.  BTW, the staff was highly professional and helpful, but getting through to them was very difficult.  I wondered, but did not go, if I went to my local Unemployment office, which was in East Orange, but since I did get through, I didn't follow up on it.


yes, I remember having to call years ago and it was a nightmare I'd rather not repeat.


Thanks. I think she'd win easily if it comes to this. The change in salary structure is so dramatic. No one wants to chance quitting and having nothing though. My advice to her was to be careful because the next step is probably them trying to find grounds to terminate. Make sure everything you do is in writing ( things like takjngvacation days, etc) and very specific with written approval received.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Better --- lsnjlaw.org.   In the search bar, upper right hand corner, enter, June 2015.




My summary: If the new terms of employment are less favorable (undefined), if the new wages, including benefits are less than 80% of current, these are reasons to qualify.

 You may have to appeal if you get a negative decision. 

I guess this is best if there is a written or emailed copy of the new proposal. 

I am not a lawyer but there are links to phone numbers of N.J. Legal Service's labor department where you can get a summation of your rights.

The problem seems to be that you won't really know if you qualify until you actually quit and file.




Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Better --- lsnjlaw.org.   In the search bar, upper right hand corner, enter, June 2015.




My summary: If the new terms of employment are less favorable (undefined), if the new wages, including benefits are less than 80% of current, these are reasons to qualify.

I wish I had known that years ago when my boss cut my hours from 40 to 15.  I was under the mistaken impression that since I was still employed I wouldn't qualify.  


Since we are discussing different scenarios for collecting if one quits, what is your opinion on the following:

An employees is paid by the day.  The day can range from 6 to maybe 9 hours a day with no lunch time.  Then there are days where the employee works 10 to 12, and once or twice 14 hour days with no extra pay. When employee mentions the 14 hour day and wanting to be paid for the extra hours the boss blows the employee off. The excuse given is - well, there are days when you are done in 6 hours.

Then out of nowhere (at least 6 months later) he increases the work load on the 6 hour days to 8 or 9 hour days. This is done by taking some of the work of other employees and giving it to this employee.  So now this person works 8-9 hours while other employees are working 5-6 hours on those days.  Same pay for everyone.

Btw, when hired they were told they would be working on average 5-6 hours a day. 

Would this person be able to collect if they were to quit?


I would GUESS so. This might better be a Wage and Hours question. Are you, in effect,  paid by the task?  How many total hours per week? 

If a complaint is filed, employer is fined per episode and per day.

Another example that is outside of your question... employees that have money deducted for losses or damage to equipment. For instance, a waiter has a customer "walk out." Owner deducts value of the meal from the hours paid =  fine to employer, plus restitution of wages.

True example from where I worked. Careless employee broke a piece of equipment valued over $400.00. Employer deducted same from employee over a two month period. After leaving the job, employee filed a complaint with N.J.D.O.L.   = returned wages, plus fine.

Cash register is short by $ or $$. Employer deducts from hours paid = fine. This, and the waiter example were printed in the Star-Ledger a few years ago.

The employer may fire the employee but may not deduct money or fine the employee.


Back to the Independent Contractor issue -- This is also being handled by I.R.S. because employers are using I.C. status as a means to get around paying S.S., unemployment and other associated deductions to the government. 

N.J.D.O.L. has a summary of I.C. rules that seem to duplicate the I.R.S. definition and provides sanctions for violations.

If the performance of the job is supervised by the employer, especially as pertains to hours, how the task is to be performed and if it is considered to be a part of the business category -- sales, assembling, packing and so forth, and is ongoing, it is not to be considered under the category of I.C.

Ex: a plumber fixing the furnace at a real estate office is an independent contractor. There is, however, consideration being given to real estate sales persons who are required to be at the office for "floor time." I don't know if this outcome has been determined.


I did not check the legal services website on these.


 



EricBurbank said:

Since we are discussing different scenarios for collecting if one quits, what is your opinion on the following:

An employees is paid by the day.  The day can range from 6 to maybe 9 hours a day with no lunch time.  Then there are days where the employee works 10 to 12, and once or twice 14 hour days with no extra pay. When employee mentions the 14 hour day and wanting to be paid for the extra hours the boss blows the employee off. The excuse given is - well, there are days when you are done in 6 hours.

Then out of nowhere (at least 6 months later) he increases the work load on the 6 hour days to 8 or 9 hour days. This is done by taking some of the work of other employees and giving it to this employee.  So now this person works 8-9 hours while other employees are working 5-6 hours on those days.  Same pay for everyone.

Btw, when hired they were told they would be working on average 5-6 hours a day. 

Would this person be able to collect if they were to quit?

Depends on a number of factors:  Did the employee get  written statement from the employer that work would be for an average of 5-6 hours a day?  Did that statement include a maximum number of hours per day the person would be required to work?  Were the number of days per week the person was required to work adjusted to make up for the longer days (comp time)?  Is the position covered by FLSA?  Is the person being paid off the books?

Your example sounds more like a case of employee harassment, possibly due to the employee complaining about the additional work hours without additional compensation or an EEO violation if the person is the only employee in the group to be of a group protected by EEO legislation.  In this case, employee would likely file a grievance or suit, which would lead to there being fired.  No need to quit.



Is person salaried or paid by the hour? From your description, I'm assuming hourly. If so, each day person should be paid for the hours they work. Possibly overtime if it goes over a certain # of hours a day. I don't think there is any requirement in NJ to give an adult a lunch period. 

And, yes, I think person would have a very good case to collect just based on the original commitment of 5-6 hrs a day alone.

EricBurbank said:

Since we are discussing different scenarios for collecting if one quits, what is your opinion on the following:

An employees is paid by the day.  The day can range from 6 to maybe 9 hours a day with no lunch time.  Then there are days where the employee works 10 to 12, and once or twice 14 hour days with no extra pay. When employee mentions the 14 hour day and wanting to be paid for the extra hours the boss blows the employee off. The excuse given is - well, there are days when you are done in 6 hours.

Then out of nowhere (at least 6 months later) he increases the work load on the 6 hour days to 8 or 9 hour days. This is done by taking some of the work of other employees and giving it to this employee.  So now this person works 8-9 hours while other employees are working 5-6 hours on those days.  Same pay for everyone.

Btw, when hired they were told they would be working on average 5-6 hours a day. 

Would this person be able to collect if they were to quit?



They are paid by the day not hour according to the boss.  They were ok with it for the most part, not happy but accepted it.  The 10 to 14 hour days pissed them off but were afraid of losing their job and since it was only a couple times a year they decided to let it go.

But the the recent change where they are working 3-4 hours more than any other employee is what has them ready to quit.  They know this will now be their regular schedule going forward. 


Is there a special reason for their working longer hours than other employees?  Special skills?  Different assignment (duties/location)? Seniority (junior/senior in job)? Is the longer work hour schedule expected to be rotated and they drew the first shift?  Other?  How long has the person been in this job?  Long enough to qualify for unemployment benefits?  Does job qualify for unemployment (not all types of work may)?


Putting all the cards on the table, this is the place where I work and somewhat involves me.  But I am not talking about me collecting, I am talking about the 2 guys that worked on my crew.

I quit last week but I have options going forward, (or I think I do) they don't , so they are stuck. 

My boss was taking advantage of my crew because they did a good job and didn't receive complaints. You would think these are the guys who would be taken care of, but with my boss it is just the opposite.

I fought for them several times but they told me not to say anything any more out of fear of losing their job.  They are not very well educated and do low level labor work so there isn't a lot of opportunities for them out there.  Plus they made some bad decisions years ago and have a record making it even harder for them to get a job.

Anyhow, 2 weeks ago the boss decided to increase our workload because he was getting complaints about the other crew.  When I said something to the boss about the extra work he told me I could quit along with my guys.  So I gave my notice and quit.

The other guys worried that they would be fired because I spoke out.  I told them to quit and if denied to go to the labor board.  But they can't be without pay for a week or two, forget about it if they had to go through an appeal process.

I only stayed as long as I did because he told me if I left he would fire the one guy immediately because he doesn't like him personally.

Tomorrow will be the first day without me working so I don't know what he will do with the one guy. I think the other guy is safe because he likes him.

Typically he lets the guys show up in the morning and if extra guys show up he will send them out and tell the regular guy there is no work that day.  He will continue this until the guy no longer shows up.  


there is no such thing as a Day Rate. Either you are salaried or hourly. And if you aren’t salaried and you aren’t getting paid for the # of hours you worked in a day, forget unemployment, this guy is in violation of basic labor laws


Its called per diem.  Not supposed to be used the way he does but it is allowed.  You only get paid for the days you work.  You're not considered full time, or even part time for that matter.  If he wants to send them out he does, if he chooses to send out another guy he does. 

It kinda reminds me of the old days (maybe it still goes on at Union Halls) where guys show up at the warehouse and the boss decides who goes out and who goes home.  In my case I told the boss I wanted the two guys I had for any days I worked.  Most guys weren't that lucky.  

Can you be salary if you work part time? And when I say part time I mean you don't know if you will be working one day or three days? Not too many guys get a five day week.  


Eric:

It sounds like your two co-workers are in a bad spot.  From what you write, I would guess that they are not being paid the going wage for the work they do.  They may not even be paid on the books.  Depending on where they work, there may be a government oversight agency that would investigate a complaint; but, as you suspect your co-workers would likely lose their jobs in the process, especially if the investigation results in putting the boss out of business.  If there is no record of their employment, which I suspect is the case, your crew members would be unable to collect unemployment insurance since as far as the government is concerned, they were never employed in the first place.  As you state, unskilled persons with a record have little chance of getting another job in our current economy in NJ.  Not what you wanted by way of a reply I know.  I really hope I am wrong.


No, believe it or not they are on the books.  That amazed me when I found that out.  Apparently he has a whole bunch of guys on the books even though he hardly ever uses them.  But if he is short guys on any given day he has a list of about 20 guys he can call to work that day.

What equally amazes me is that these guys come in knowing that he won't use them again for a while.

I guess he tells the insurance company how many guys he uses on each day and they just insure him for that many.  The amount of guys used doesn't change, so as long as they are insured and on the books he is covered.   He won't pay them off the books because he would have to pay the taxes on his income at the end of the year without their salary being deducted as an expense.  He doesn't do anything illegal but it is very close.  Labor laws excluded, since I am not sure of the law regarding being considered salaried pertaining to the amount of hours and days worked.  If there were laws about morals he would be sentenced to death.




EricBurbank said:

Its called per diem.  Not supposed to be used the way he does but it is allowed.  You only get paid for the days you work.  You're not considered full time, or even part time for that matter.  If he wants to send them out he does, if he chooses to send out another guy he does. 

It kinda reminds me of the old days (maybe it still goes on at Union Halls) where guys show up at the warehouse and the boss decides who goes out and who goes home.  In my case I told the boss I wanted the two guys I had for any days I worked.  Most guys weren't that lucky.  

Can you be salary if you work part time? And when I say part time I mean you don't know if you will be working one day or three days? Not too many guys get a five day week.  

From what I read, per diem doesn't count. File your own hours and wages claim with N.J. Department of Labor. You have nothing to lose if you already quit the job. It may make things easier for the remaining guys.

The boss doesn't get put out of business but gets a fine and has to pay restitution for the hours of overtime they put in.


you can’t use per diem like he is. He needed to be paying an hourly wage. 

I’d see a labor attorney and try to stick it to this guy. I don’t know how people get away with this crap.



EricBurbank said:


I guess he tells the insurance company how many guys he uses on each day and they just insure him for that many.  The amount of guys used doesn't change, so as long as they are insured and on the books he is covered.   He won't pay them off the books because he would have to pay the taxes on his income at the end of the year without their salary being deducted as an expense.  He doesn't do anything illegal but it is very close.  Labor laws excluded, since I am not sure of the law regarding being considered salaried pertaining to the amount of hours and days worked.  If there were laws about morals he would be sentenced to death.

Workmens' Comp insurance is based on the total pay for the insurance year and the type of work they do. If everyone got paid by check, the insurance company will audit a number of payroll receipts per year and verify that the hours worked are equal to the number of hours insured. Some fraud, not necessarily in this case, occurs like when an employer says the worker is doing office work (not very dangerous) while the worker is putting nails in roofing shingles. In other words, mis-classifying the worker to a lower rated position.



EricBurbank said:

No, believe it or not they are on the books.  That amazed me when I found that out.  Apparently he has a whole bunch of guys on the books even though he hardly ever uses them.  But if he is short guys on any given day he has a list of about 20 guys he can call to work that day.

What equally amazes me is that these guys come in knowing that he won't use them again for a while.

I guess he tells the insurance company how many guys he uses on each day and they just insure him for that many.  The amount of guys used doesn't change, so as long as they are insured and on the books he is covered.   He won't pay them off the books because he would have to pay the taxes on his income at the end of the year without their salary being deducted as an expense.  He doesn't do anything illegal but it is very close.  Labor laws excluded, since I am not sure of the law regarding being considered salaried pertaining to the amount of hours and days worked.  If there were laws about morals he would be sentenced to death.

Amazing.  Next question would be whether these employees are working enough hours per week regularly enough to qualify for unemployment benefits?  Would they qualify for welfare benefits if/when they do leave their present jobs?  Are there training or apprenticeship programs they would qualify for that could help them get more skilled employment?


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