New York Football Giants

terp

Eli Manning is the most underappreciated star maybe in NY sports history. There is no other QB in the NFL that takes us to the SB championship in 2012. Dude was frigging tough and hung in there, took beatings, and won. Our O Line was complete trash. That team won on Defense and Eli.

waxwings said:



vermontgolfer

Well, if you spent anytime on the Giants Message Board you may be shocked about how many 'Giants ' fans, think differently


ml1


vermontgolfer said:

Well, if you spent anytime on the Giants Message Board you may be shocked about how many 'Giants ' fans, think differently

A lot of fans expect perfection from their players, especially the high-priced ones. When Eli's retired fans will appreciate him more. Throughout his career he has no doubt cost them some games with terrible INTs. But on balance, he's probably made the difference in a lot more games they've won than the number of games he's been the reason they've lost.


bets

There really is a double standard when it comes to the NFL and OBJ

Fined for cleats while Ezekiel Elliot gets away with TD celebration no fine


ml1

I have to admit he brought it on himself, starting with Rams game in his rookie year. But there is absolutely no doubt that NFL officials are not giving Beckham the slightest benefit of the doubt on calls. The shame of the Panthers game last year was that the officiating crew gave Norman wide latitude to lay a host of cheap shots on Beckham, who of course then lost his head. Not to excuse the egregious cheap shots from Beckham, but a halfway competent job of officiating that game from the start would have hit both players with personal fouls early, and then a laying down of the law to each. From there on you would have probably seen a clean game from both players.

Beckham now has to play against the opponents, with the handicap of officials' bias against him. But if he had been able to keep his cool on the field, he probably wouldn't have to deal with it.


bets

Agreed, but I think he's trying to take it down a notch. There were several interference penalties (IMHO) that went uncalled against defenders on Beckham. It's quite frustrating that referees are not held to better standards, and the rules governing their behavior is so secretive.

ml1 said:

I have to admit he brought it on himself, starting with Rams game in his rookie year. But there is absolutely no doubt that NFL officials are not giving Beckham the slightest benefit of the doubt on calls. The shame of the Panthers game last year was that the officiating crew gave Norman wide latitude to lay a host of cheap shots on Beckham, who of course then lost his head. Not to excuse the egregious cheap shots from Beckham, but a halfway competent job of officiating that game from the start would have hit both players with personal fouls early, and then a laying down of the law to each. From there on you would have probably seen a clean game from both players.

Beckham now has to play against the opponents, with the handicap of officials' bias against him. But if he had been able to keep his cool on the field, he probably wouldn't have to deal with it.



terp

He's not perfect. He's definitely a gunslinger. That being said, a lot of the bad INTs are because of bad route running. One of Eli's good points or flaws, depending how you look at it, is that he trusts his guys. For example, even though Rueben Randle ran the correct route like 8% of the time, Eli would continue to throw the ball in his direction. This resulted in some really bad looking interceptions. My understanding is that when they looked at the film, Eli made the correct read 95% of the time.

Eli being Eli, he only cares about winning and never says a word about any of this.

ml1 said:



vermontgolfer said:

Well, if you spent anytime on the Giants Message Board you may be shocked about how many 'Giants ' fans, think differently

A lot of fans expect perfection from their players, especially the high-priced ones. When Eli's retired fans will appreciate him more. Throughout his career he has no doubt cost them some games with terrible INTs. But on balance, he's probably made the difference in a lot more games they've won than the number of games he's been the reason they've lost.



ml1

yes. He's also had receivers who don't come back to the ball aggressively and fight off DBs. Victor Cruz did that a couple of weeks ago. Randle was notorious for that, and Hakeem Nicks would give up on balls too often.

Another thing he does that some QBs won't is throw away a ball as soon as it's clear the play is going nowhere. Some other guys seem more concerned about completion % than Eli. It's pretty rare you see Eli take a "coverage sack." If guys are covered, he throws it away, doesn't take a loss of yardage, and avoids the possibility of injury.

terp said:

He's not perfect. He's definitely a gunslinger. That being said, a lot of the bad INTs are because of bad route running. One of Eli's good points or flaws, depending how you look at it, is that he trusts his guys. For example, even though Rueben Randle ran the correct route like 8% of the time, Eli would continue to throw the ball in his direction. This resulted in some really bad looking interceptions. My understanding is that when they looked at the film, Eli made the correct read 95% of the time.

Eli being Eli, he only cares about winning and never says a word about any of this.
ml1 said:



vermontgolfer said:

Well, if you spent anytime on the Giants Message Board you may be shocked about how many 'Giants ' fans, think differently

A lot of fans expect perfection from their players, especially the high-priced ones. When Eli's retired fans will appreciate him more. Throughout his career he has no doubt cost them some games with terrible INTs. But on balance, he's probably made the difference in a lot more games they've won than the number of games he's been the reason they've lost.



Train of Thought

Despite all that preceded, OBJ was open on that post for would-be game winner. Just couldn't connect. I like how Odell took blame for that play afterward, despite it looking like a definite overthrow.


Soul 29

I don't think that this is going to end well ...

I'll go over here and wait to hear about my suspension.


ml1

the false start penalty was a killer on 4th and 1


Soul 29


ml1 said:

the false start penalty was a killer on 4th and 1

This.


Train of Thought


Soul_29 said:

I don't think that this is going to end well ...

I'll go over here and wait to hear about my suspension.

No suspension, love havin' ya.

You may be right, but then I have faith the evil Cowboys will beat Detroit and usher us in this week. Even if Dallas gives Dak a break and gives Romo some work, no way they risk putting Romo behind a backup o-line. Dallas should roll at home over Lions.


Don


Train_of_Thought said:



Soul_29 said:

I don't think that this is going to end well ...

I'll go over here and wait to hear about my suspension.

No suspension, love havin' ya.

You may be right, but then I have faith the evil Cowboys will beat Detroit and usher us in this week. Even if Dallas gives Dak a break and gives Romo some work, no way they risk putting Romo behind a backup o-line. Dallas should roll at home over Lions.

Yes, and it's too early to dial things back. With next week and the week off that they'll receive, you don't want go four weeks in between playing "real" games.


Train of Thought

Thank you Saints, for sparing me from having to root for Dallas.


mjc

I gather you guys are going to be traveling to Lambeau next weekend. Bring your winter coats. Go Pack.


Train of Thought

Well, I did drive to Soldier Field in '85 (Jan. '86) and it was freaking cold. Maybe not Green Bay cold, but pretty dang cold. I think I'll watch this one in sweats and slippers here in Jersey. grin


mjc

grin Likewise, I will be cozy indoors here in Wisconsin. Those people out there are nuts, in a happy sort of way.


ml1


Train_of_Thought said:

Well, I did drive to Soldier Field in '85 (Jan. '86) and it was freaking cold. Maybe not Green Bay cold, but pretty dang cold. I think I'll watch this one in sweats and slippers here in Jersey. grin

I was in Chicago a few years ago on a Monday night when the Bears were playing Dallas. I was in the bar in my hotel watching the 2nd half and a couple walked in looking like they were this close to hypothermia. They had decided to leave the game at halftime and couldn't get a taxi. They walked about 2 miles back in 10 degree weather. Ouch. When the wind is blowing in Chicago it's about as brutal as anyplace.


Train of Thought

Fraternity brother and I slept in the car in the Soldier Field lot night before the game, to add cold insult to injury.


vermontgolfer


Train_of_Thought said:

Well, I did drive to Soldier Field in '85 (Jan. '86) and it was freaking cold. Maybe not Green Bay cold, but pretty dang cold. I think I'll watch this one in sweats and slippers here in Jersey. grin

Think I was at that game also, Landeta whiff game, right? Yeah, that was the coldest game I've ever been to.


Train of Thought


vermontgolfer said:



Train_of_Thought said:

Well, I did drive to Soldier Field in '85 (Jan. '86) and it was freaking cold. Maybe not Green Bay cold, but pretty dang cold. I think I'll watch this one in sweats and slippers here in Jersey. grin

Think I was at that game also, Landeta whiff game, right? Yeah, that was the coldest game I've ever been to.

Yep re Landeta. Ugh.

And yep, with that wind, my coldest game as well.


Train of Thought

Oh well. Reversal of 2011-12 game, when WE hit the hail mary at the end of the half then pulled away in the fourth. Here's hoping the Pack plays this well next week.


bets

The first quarter was impressive, except for the lack of touchdown conversion.

We'll always have that first quarter!

And next season...


mrincredible

Bye bye Odell.

Hello Jabrill.


annielou

The Giants can suck even more now.

Congrats! 


Kim

Despite his undeniable talent, his personality and mentality (refusing to be a member of the TEAM) made this move necessary.  

Despite 12 picks in the coming draft, Giants still won't be a good team this year.  Then, when Eli's contract has expired, they should have a reasonable foundation to build on with their next QB.



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