new basketball courts, Dehart Park - social distancing? uh, no...
sac said:
It sounds like the problem is a facility that shouldn't be available to anyone, not whoever might have decided to use it.
I took that to be the OP’s point as well.
sac said:
So are children from out of town not welcome in our parks? I was not aware of any such rule and I hope there is none. It sounds like the problem is a facility that shouldn't be available to anyone, not whoever might have decided to use it.
The DPW moved ALL the garbage cans RIGHT ONTO THE COURT, and they're still tossing their garbage right on the ground.
Out of towners have always been welcome.. the difference now is not that the park is being frequented by out of towners, it's that the park is OVERWHELMED by out of towners. LOUD out of towners.. last night I had to call the cops..why? Because the roller skater crowd, at least 20 -30 regulars who've taken over the tennis courts, aren't just bringing boom boxes, they actually setup a folding table with turntables and woofers and are blasting (and I mean BLASTING) their music all over the park.. I live two blocks away from Dehart and at 9:30 on a Sunday night I could hear it in my living room...
when I first heard they hockey rink was being replaced by a b-ball court I predicted the end of the Dehart Park we have known it, a once peaceful, tranquil space for the neighborhood. Now we have to look forward to a loud obnoxious mob blasting house music, and leaving garbage everywhere, for the entire summer..
apser, Thank you for bringing this to the community's attention. Hopefully the authorities will quickly take action to address the problems you report.
I was there yesterday. If you are looking for an ocean of unmasked saliva, sweat and liberal use of the n word, De Hart Park is your spot. Not to mention balls frequently flying into the playground. Some families hanging in the playground but I don’t think many will want to subject their kids to this scenario. Whose idea was it to put basketball courts full of obnoxious teens right on top of a tiny tike playground? Defies logic.
apser said:
The DPW moved ALL the garbage cans RIGHT ONTO THE COURT, and they're still tossing their garbage right on the ground.
Out of towners have always been welcome.. the difference now is not that the park is being frequented by out of towners, it's that the park is OVERWHELMED by out of towners. LOUD out of towners.. last night I had to call the cops..why? Because the roller skater crowd, at least 20 -30 regulars who've taken over the tennis courts, aren't just bringing boom boxes, they actually setup a folding table with turntables and woofers and are blasting (and I mean BLASTING) their music all over the park.. I live two blocks away from Dehart and at 9:30 on a Sunday night I could hear it in my living room...
when I first heard they hockey rink was being replaced by a b-ball court I predicted the end of the Dehart Park we have known it, a once peaceful, tranquil space for the neighborhood. Now we have to look forward to a loud obnoxious mob blasting house music, and leaving garbage everywhere, for the entire summer..
If things are as bad as you write they are, the time has come to contact the TC and urge your neighbors to do the same. Stress the overcrowding/lack of social distancing, the inappropriate use of the tennis court for roller skating now that the rink has been removed, and the loud noise coming from the sound system set up by the skaters. Do not include the word out-of-towners since this can overshadow the legitimate issues. If you can, get your neighbors who are eye and ear witnesses to what is happening to contact the TC as well. There should be another TC meeting scheduled for the third Tuesday of the month (in about another week). Try to get one of the TC members (Greg as a recreation issue? Vic as a Hilton issue?) to place this item on the agenda for discussion. Then arrange to have several residents who live near DeHart Park speak during the first public comment period and build your case for action. Be prepared to suggest what the town may be able to do to resolve the problem. Do not suggest that the park be closed to persons from out of town since this cannot be done legally and since it will detract from your real concerns regarding improper use of the park. Good luck.
The hours for DeHart Park are 6:00 a.m. to 10:30 p.m.
Maybe it needs to close sooner, at least on weeknights.
bigorangesplotmpwd said:
I was there yesterday. If you are looking for an ocean of unmasked saliva, sweat and liberal use of the n word, De Hart Park is your spot. Not to mention balls frequently flying into the playground. Some families hanging in the playground but I don’t think many will want to subject their kids to this scenario. Whose idea was it to put basketball courts full of obnoxious teens right on top of a tiny tike playground? Defies logic.
thank you... I cannot imagine which of the town council made this happen... I only wish I'd heard of this nonsense back in the planning stages... everybody in the neighborhood is at their wits end...
yahooyahoo said:
The hours for DeHart Park are 6:00 a.m. to 10:30 p.m.
Maybe it needs to close sooner, at least on weeknights.
as mentioned, it was going on 10:00 PM last night when the music finally stopped..
Years ago there were basketball courts in maplecrest park. They were taken down for this same problem. Now it’s dehart. Whose brilliant idea it was to install basketball court?
Jaytee said:
Years ago there were basketball courts in maplecrest park. They were taken down for this same problem. Now it’s dehart. Whose brilliant idea it was to install basketball court?
The placement of basketball court at DeHart has been in the works for several years. There was frequent discussion at township committee meetings as the project made it through the approval process. I seem to recall at least one study, at least one community meeting focusing on those who live closest to where the basketball court would be located, and plenty of opportunity for public comment throughout. The project would also have gone through the Recreation Advisory Committee. I would imagine the Hilton Neighborhood Association had input as well. This was far from being a surprise to those who follow what the town is doing.
joan_crystal said:
Jaytee said:
Years ago there were basketball courts in maplecrest park. They were taken down for this same problem. Now it’s dehart. Whose brilliant idea it was to install basketball court?
The placement of basketball court at DeHart has been in the works for several years. There was frequent discussion at township committee meetings as the project made it through the approval process. I seem to recall at least one study, at least one community meeting focusing on those who live closest to where the basketball court would be located, and plenty of opportunity for public comment throughout. The project would also have gone through the Recreation Advisory Committee. I would imagine the Hilton Neighborhood Association had input as well. This was far from being a surprise to those who follow what the town is doing.
This is accurate.
joan_crystal said:
The placement of basketball court at DeHart has been in the works for several years. There was frequent discussion at township committee meetings as the project made it through the approval process. I seem to recall at least one study, at least one community meeting focusing on those who live closest to where the basketball court would be located, and plenty of opportunity for public comment throughout. The project would also have gone through the Recreation Advisory Committee. I would imagine the Hilton Neighborhood Association had input as well. This was far from being a surprise to those who follow what the town is doing.
I have inquired with a dozen or so of my neighbors who live within a block of the park, not one of them knew this was coming.
At least 'one study' with 'plenty of opportunity for public comment' CLEARLY was not enough; while it behooves us all to keep on top of what's happening in our town, we also assume the town council has an ounce of common sense - clearly that's wasn't the case with this decision.
THE fact remains, this situation has already become untenable; I assume the PD said something to someone, because tonight is the first night in three weeks there isn't music blasting from the park after sundown; I intend to get a petition from ever citizen affected to have this idiotic decision reversed; the simple fact that not one person in my neighborhood that I have spoken with, from the most recent residents to those who've lived her for upwards of forty years, had ANY idea this was in the works speaks to the level of public involvement that was factored into this decision....
this neighborhood was one of the most livable, neighborly and peaceful you could ever hope for, for the twenty years I've lived here Before This..I have no intention of watching the quality of life in my neighborhood go straight to hell over this idiotic decision.
I agree that the situation sounds problematic and should be addressed, but not because of where the children live. (Yes, from all accounts here, they ARE children.) Just emphasize the basic problem and lets hope that a good solution can be found.
I understand the noise and mess being frustrating, and right now I'm very frustrated by all the folks ignoring masks and social distancing. But if we step back a little, the reason those courts have been put in is that there are a lot of young people in our towns who really enjoy basketball. It's not my game, maybe it isn't yours, but the town's need to provide recreation for them, too. So we need to find a way to get these kids to respect the area while not just removing the courts. That's the challenge.
FilmCarp said:
I understand the noise and mess being frustrating, and right now I'm very frustrated by all the folks ignoring masks and social distancing. But if we step back a little, the reason those courts have been put in is that there are a lot of young people in our towns who really enjoy basketball. It's not my game, maybe it isn't yours, but the town's need to provide recreation for them, too. So we need to find a way to get these kids to respect the area while not just removing the courts. That's the challenge.
Yes. a recreation department needs to address the needs and interests of all citizens. Now, how to do it?
First suggestion, revised noise ordinance. Is it possible to construct one that addresses the difference between a random party and continuous violations? Lower the stop time to 7 or 8 pm?
Anti-litter reward system. Again, a bit difficult. Are there sufficient litter cans? When I was teaching urban high school, I set up a cafeteria recycling program during lunch time. A recycling bin was set up in the cafeteria. Special ed kids were rewarded for monitoring the bin. If a kid put an item in the recyc bin, a raffle ticket was given out. Drawing each Friday for 2 McD gift cards of $5.00.
What kind of reward would work? New equipment of some sort? A sponsored tournament (Union Twp. has one at the end of summers)? -- Your thoughts on this?
Begin with a sign that states the cost of daily clean-up. Explain that this cost could be diverted to benefit park users. No/less litter, you get the benefit.
apser said:
I have inquired with a dozen or so of my neighbors who live within a block of the park, not one of them knew this was coming.
At least 'one study' with 'plenty of opportunity for public comment' CLEARLY was not enough; while it behooves us all to keep on top of what's happening in our town, we also assume the town council has an ounce of common sense - clearly that's wasn't the case with this decision.
Maplewood has a long history of NIMBY as regards basketball courts. Does anyone else remember the "rumble" at the basketball court in Memorial Park? Lots of controls were put in after that. That court is still there and functioning. Far fewer complaints about its use are heard now.
You and your neighbors were not paying attention and this is the result. As others have written, there was a strong push from residents to have a second basketball court in town. Maplecrest was considered and dismissed as a suitable location. Then the focus was placed on DeHart, which was selected. The court is there and functioning. The overuse you describe is indicative of the need. The time to stop this project entirely is long gone.
What is needed now is to find a way for the basketball court to function without continuing to cause the kind of disruption to the neighborhood framework you describe. Jack has some good ideas and I am sure there are others you and your neighbors can come up with that would reduce or even eliminate portions of the problem. Organize, document the problems, go to the township committee with a proposed plan of action.
Oct. 19, 2018:
The Maplewood Recreation Advisory Committee (RAC) will host two meetings to invite community feedback about placing a basketball court in DeHart Park on Burnett Avenue.
Previously the Township had considered returning a basketball court to Maplecrest Park.
“Two years ago it was proposed for Maplecrest,” wrote RAC member Heather Joy on Facebook. . . .
https://essexnewsdaily.com/headlne-news/74053
January 14, 2019:
MAPLEWOOD, NJ — Maplewood Committeeman Greg Lembrich gave the Township Committee and the public an update on the proposed addition of basketball courts to DeHart Park at the meeting on Dec. 18, following a discussion about the topic at the Dec. 4 meeting. The Recreation Advisory Committee is now in the process of putting together formal plans to build courts at the park, Lembrich said, and the committee members agreed that they are in favor of the project.
I remember a “child” hid behind the hedge on Oakland rd and fired a shot into maplecrest park towards the basketball courts a few years ago. Remember the fights at the Baird center in SO? Basketball ball courts are a magnet for gangs and trouble. It brings down the neighborhoods. The foul language, the mess, and who dares to confront these “children” ?
will the police have to be there every day? Little kids use the playground right there! The issue is not that the neighbors didn’t go to the town meeting concerning this, the issue is it’s an erosion of their quality of life.
do the seniors still meet there? Would be interesting to see how they would react to a game while being there.
Jaytee said:
I remember a “child” hid behind the hedge on Oakland rd and fired a shot into maplecrest park towards the basketball courts a few years ago. Remember the fights at the Baird center in SO? Basketball ball courts are a magnet for gangs and trouble. It brings down the neighborhoods. The foul language, the mess, and who dares to confront these “children” ?
will the police have to be there every day? Little kids use the playground right there! The issue is not that the neighbors didn’t go to the town meeting concerning this, the issue is it’s an erosion of their quality of life.
do the seniors still meet there? Would be interesting to see how they would react to a game while being there.
The senior center has been closed since early March and is not scheduled to open for the foreseeable future. Seniors have been told that the DeHart Center will not be available as a cooling center this year because it has been reserved exclusively for the children's camp program. When the recreation department recently announced their town-wide outdoor recreation plan for the summer, they made it clear that not one blade of grass has been allotted to date for outdoor senior recreation. All that is on tap as of now for seniors are zoom sessions and webinars. Some individual seniors may venture into DeHart Park this summer as may other people who live in the neighborhood; but, as of now no organized senior activity is being offered for seniors at DeHart Park.
yahooyahoo said:
Oct. 19, 2018:
The Maplewood Recreation Advisory Committee (RAC) will host two meetings to invite community feedback about placing a basketball court in DeHart Park on Burnett Avenue.
Previously the Township had considered returning a basketball court to Maplecrest Park.
“Two years ago it was proposed for Maplecrest,” wrote RAC member Heather Joy on Facebook. . . .
https://essexnewsdaily.com/headlne-news/74053
January 14, 2019:
MAPLEWOOD, NJ — Maplewood Committeeman Greg Lembrich gave the Township Committee and the public an update on the proposed addition of basketball courts to DeHart Park at the meeting on Dec. 18, following a discussion about the topic at the Dec. 4 meeting. The Recreation Advisory Committee is now in the process of putting together formal plans to build courts at the park, Lembrich said, and the committee members agreed that they are in favor of the project.
As a member of the Hilton Neighborhood, I attended this meeting where there were less than 10 citizens who showed up. One of the points raised at the meeting is the large amount of Maplewood children that have to walk from the Memorial Park courts, often after dark, to return home to the Hilton Neighborhood. My son is one of those children who loves basketball and is very happy the courts are now close by. As mentioned by others, the problems need to be solved while still providing the opportunity for the kids to enjoy the facilities safely.
Jaytee said:
I remember a “child” hid behind the hedge on Oakland rd and fired a shot into maplecrest park towards the basketball courts a few years ago.
FWIW: It was at a football player at Maplecrest in 2013. There have not been basketball courts at Maplecrest for a very long time.
sprout said:
Jaytee said:
I remember a “child” hid behind the hedge on Oakland rd and fired a shot into maplecrest park towards the basketball courts a few years ago.
FWIW: It was at a football player at Maplecrest in 2013. There have not been basketball courts at Maplecrest for a very long time.
You beat me to the punch.
The anti basketball court bias present in this thread is nothing but racism ... The anti out of towner bias - as if Maplewood kids wouldn't behave the exact same way - is some sort of -ism, bias, something sad and pathetic ... I am far from the most plugged in citizen and I remember a lot of public notice - and associated handwringing - of the courts going in, so absolutely no surprise is valid
I was walking my dog in DeHart earlier this week and noticed the crowd at the basketball court, without masks, of course ... I also noticed an organized youth soccer practice on the field, also without masks or social distancing ... Is there a thread about them?
vdfam said:
The anti basketball court bias present in this thread is nothing but racism ... The anti out of towner bias - as if Maplewood kids wouldn't behave the exact same way - is some sort of -ism, bias, something sad and pathetic ... I am far from the most plugged in citizen and I remember a lot of public notice - and associated handwringing - of the courts going in, so absolutely no surprise is valid
I was walking my dog in DeHart earlier this week and noticed the crowd at the basketball court, without masks, of course ... I also noticed an organized youth soccer practice on the field, also without masks or social distancing ... Is there a thread about them?
Yes! The thread was on SOMA Lounge (though started by a long-time MOL poster) and was full of posts criticizing the State's executive order which exempts athletes participating in youth sports from wearing face coverings while on the field. This thread was a reaction to an incident witnessed at Maplecrest, not DeHart, which indicates that complaints of young persons playing sports while ignoring social distancing requirements and face coverings is not limited to DeHart Park or to athletes who are identified as being from out of town. The Maplecrest athletes were identified as being Maplewood residents.
vdfam said:
The anti basketball court bias present in this thread is nothing but racism ... I also noticed an organized youth soccer practice on the field, also without masks or social distancing ... Is there a thread about them?
Yeah, there's a whiff of racism in all of this. Agreed. You make a wonderful point about the soccer players.
Let the kids play.
joan_crystal said:
vdfam said:
The anti basketball court bias present in this thread is nothing but racism ... The anti out of towner bias - as if Maplewood kids wouldn't behave the exact same way - is some sort of -ism, bias, something sad and pathetic ... I am far from the most plugged in citizen and I remember a lot of public notice - and associated handwringing - of the courts going in, so absolutely no surprise is valid
I was walking my dog in DeHart earlier this week and noticed the crowd at the basketball court, without masks, of course ... I also noticed an organized youth soccer practice on the field, also without masks or social distancing ... Is there a thread about them?
Yes! The thread was on SOMA Lounge (though started by a long-time MOL poster) and was full of posts criticizing the State's executive order which exempts athletes participating in youth sports from wearing face coverings while on the field. This thread was a reaction to an incident witnessed at Maplecrest, not DeHart, which indicates that complaints of young persons playing sports while ignoring social distancing requirements and face coverings is not limited to DeHart Park or to athletes who are identified as being from out of town. The Maplecrest athletes were identified as being Maplewood residents.
I doubt the soccer players were identified as a "mob" in the SOMA lounge discussion.
yahooyahoo said:
I doubt the soccer players were identified as a "mob" in the SOMA lounge discussion.
They weren't soccer players and there was no mention of a mob. For once SOMA Lounge was being civil in its posts. The concern was for lack of social distancing and lack of wearing face coverings when others were in close proximity.
Aaaaah....
I have to admit it’s kind of quaint to get some good ol’ thinly veiled local racism struggling to break free and soar, yet restrained ever so tentatively by well-meaning progressive typists yearning to make good on bright yellow slogans painted on the street.
Out of Towners Lives Matter
House Music All Night Long
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So are children from out of town not welcome in our parks? I was not aware of any such rule and I hope there is none. It sounds like the problem is a facility that shouldn't be available to anyone, not whoever might have decided to use it.