Need ideas for elderly mother


Formerlyjerseyjack said:



BG9 said:


....
Financial institutions honor POA's. Social Security does not. Instead, Social Security requires you apply for and become a representative payee for the disabled person. But then you have to submit financial reports to explain how that person's money was spent with their rules on how you can spend it. ....

The annual accounting is not that cumbersome. Their formula requires the distribution of S.S. allotment in specific areas: clothing, recreation, entertainment, education, savings and a couple of others. I was able to fill out the form with "0" dollars allocated to most of the categories and the full amount allocated to shelter. 

Good to know. It was made to seem more burdensome. 

I have so much paperwork, the monthly Medicaid Community Trust vouchers, the semi-annual and the annual renewals, SCRIE, Medical, etc. I was hesitant to take on more.

I'll look into it again. If I have to shift my mother to institutional Medicaid I think its best to be ready.


I have no problem with my brother having the second house. It is on an acre of land in the old town area where developers are swarming and and my dad has turned down more than one offer to sell, so it does have some value. What I resent is that my parents bought out a relative and combined the payment with their existing mortgage, so they have been paying for it, including taxes, and kicked out renters years ago so my brother could live there with an affordable rent. Mind you, he works full time, he just makes bad financial decisions and our parents have really enabled it. I also know my dad is worried he'll lose the house if he owns it, so it's really messed up all around! 

On the other hand, he's been an involved uncle and very generous with my kids over the years, so it's complicated. I just don't want a big family fight about this at the end. He's very sensitive about slights and acts very entitled. Needless to say, not too many friends and on his way to being a grouchy hermit. Sad really!



NizhoniGrrrl
said:

Luckily we aren't there yet, 

You've said this several times. I think the most important point is that "there" comes quickly. Then you are in emergency mode. You'll have to take days off of work. It will cost you more stress and money. The best thing to do is to prepare for that time now, before you are "there."


threads such as these begin to be scary for me. We are the ages of the older generation and I am primary caretaker for my husband.

We made many of the decisions under discussion here for our own parents - and came to regret a few.

We did give up our home of 37 years -- and it was so emotionally difficult to leave the house where our children grew up. There is truly no place like home grin 

But we moved to an adult community to a 3 bedrooom house - most importantly, master bedroom and bath is on one level. We have managed to make it home, along with many new friends.

With my husband now incapacitated, the question remains how to cope independently going forward.

We have chosen to age in place, with home health care, Medicare''s minimal assistance, and all the modern tools available to us -- Amazon.com is a vital part in remaining self sufficient!

A live-in caretaker may be a future consideration.

Our kids are informed and respect our decision. Life cannot be controlled - but knowing what you want is a step forward. 

We do have a living will, prepaid funeral expenses, and a POA and wills. Planning ahead for a unknown future is tricky.


@mtierney it sounds like you have been making very sensible decisions. I'm sure your kids appreciate it. After experiencing so many complications from indecision or no decision with my in-laws and now my parents, we hope to learn from their mistakes and make better decisions to help ease the burden on our kids in the future.


Yeah, it seems really unfair to do this to your children.


Niz-

Is there any possibility of your brother moving in with your parents now? Then they could sell the "hovel"/real estate and pay down the mortgage, lending more flexibility overall to the situation. Would your brother be able to help at all with your mom if your dad passes first? Even if just some of the basics like overseeing nursing care etc?



berkeley said:

Niz-

Is there any possibility of your brother moving in with your parents now? Then they could sell the "hovel"/real estate and pay down the mortgage, lending more flexibility overall to the situation. Would your brother be able to help at all with your mom if your dad passes first? Even if just some of the basics like overseeing nursing care etc?

My brother is terrific in a crisis, but terrible at the maintenance stuff. He has a stressful job and resents having to check on them. He's frequently irritable when he drops by which leads to arguments with my Dad. They don't have a great relationship, so he would never move in. Plus he just bought 4 sheep (then 2 had babies) with no livestock experience so now more excuses about being too busy! He has always wanted that property and wouldn't leave it. 

It's possible he'll help check in on my mom if my dad passes first and she is in a facility when the time comes for that. Hopefully!


I'm not understanding why someone who has a stressful job ( which presumably comes with a decent salary) would not buy the house from your parents. There should be no reason why he couldn't get a mortgage for a small amount. They can even sell it to him for 1/2 or a 1/3 of it's value. If it makes everyone feel good. To live there for free while the parents pay all the expenses if he is of sound mind and body and holds down a decent job seems absolutelyinsane to me. Your parents should insist on the sale to your brother at this point.



conandrob240 said:

I'm not understanding why someone who has a stressful job ( which presumably comes with a decent salary) would not buy the house from your parents. There should be no reason why he couldn't get a mortgage for a small amount. They can even sell it to him for 1/2 or a 1/3 of it's value. If it makes everyone feel good. To live there for free while the parents pay all the expenses if he is of sound mind and body and holds down a decent job seems absolutelyinsane to me. Your parents should insist on the sale to your brother at this point.

To do this, the present mortgage would have to be paid in full and two mortgages applied for. Income may not be sufficient for this to happen. Plus the costs of appraisals and so forth. Also, the hovel may not qualify for mortgage if it is in sad condition.


Why? You cant have one mortgage for two houses so I think the OP was saying that a large mortgage was obtained on the house they live in to cover house brother lives in. If so, they should be able to simply sell brother occupied house.

My parents just did exactly the same thing- re-mortgaging heavily on the house they live in so that they could flat out own my sister's house. so my parents have mortgage expenses they didn't have before but all attached to the one house. 

And this thread reminds me that that aset is in danger if they take ill. I should get that house out of my parent's names and into mine. They suggested this for their primary residence but it made no sense since that's protected but I see why it might be the right idea for the second house.


Said brother has a stressful job but it isn't well paying and he isn't disciplined about saving money. He's made many poor decisions in the past, always looking for easy money (see sheep) that ends up costing him money. And yes, my parents could insist he buy them out, but they won't because they don't want to "lose" him by making him angry. He is there to help them in a crisis and I am not. They are co-dependent in a very unhealthy way.  


Niz: Conandrob is right. If one or both of your parents take ill and need to go to a nursing home, the house your brother lives in will be taken as an asset to pay nursing home expenses before they can avail themselves of Medicaid for long-term care.


So my parents and I met with the lawyer who created their trust. We talked through all the issues and options with the second house and my parents have decided to transfer it to him now. They both have some LTC insurance that would last at least 3 years once triggered, so we are going to hope the Medicaid scenario will still land outside of the 5 year look back, if/when that happens. The bottom line is they will not take back the house from my brother no matter what happens, so better to get it off their plates sooner rather than later. 

Also, the lawyer recommended I become a co-trustee now, rather than being named first successor trustee after my Dad. This means that if my Dad doesn't suddenly die, he won't have to formally resign, etc, if he can't handle their financial affairs due to illness, etc. I can slowly start helping more and more as needed. For now I won't need to help with anything unless he asks. It also bypasses my Mom entirely right up front and their is no messiness. 

So, we'll see how my brother responds to the decision about the house. He better not complain. It's a great gift and I will potentially get nothing if they burn through all the remaining assets. And that's just fine with me. I don't want a fight about it! 

He might be pissed about the co-trustee arrangement, but what are we gonna do??



NizhoniGrrrl said:

....
So, we'll see how my brother responds to the decision about the house. He better not complain.
....
He might be pissed about the co-trustee arrangement, but what are we gonna do??..

Point out to him that this may save the house for him if your parents' finances become stretched.


it's a massive step, a huge decision. Congratulations on getting agreement!

(I'm tempted to say 'bad luck' re your brother if he doesn't agree, but that's not a good spirit to start with) You've got a road map now.   question 


Just thought I would drop by and report that we have signed all the paperwork to gift my parents’s second house to my brother. It will be filed with the state and official before the end of the year. My brother has offered to try to pay me back my half of the value (about $60k) over the next 6 years by contributing to my kids college tuition payments. I’m not holding my breath and told him any contribution is appreciated but I didn’t expect him to pay more than he could manage. Also I’m not going to want a contract or anything. We we will even out the distribution of my parents assets when the time comes taking into account any of these “payback” contributions. This is all outlined in a revision to the trust. The lawyer also made me sign a letter acknowledging that I am risking receiving nothing from the trust and my brother having received the house. I’m fine with that and glad to have this taken care of!


Incidentally the lawyer first wanted to convince us to co-own the house through an LLC with my brother as the manager, but I don’t want to be tied together financially and frankly was worried about potential liability. 


it must be a relief to have it sorted, and handled formally. 

Hope the festive season will be calm, happy and smooth and the New Year brings more good memories than sad ones. 


Sad update to this story. My Dad passed first early this year. My Mom didn’t want to stay in the house alone so we immediately went into action to get the house on the market. That should happen very soon. We found her an independent living apartment, but she wanted to come home with me for a while rather than moving in with my brother because he was suddenly seeming to be having health issues and was going to be busy getting the house ready to sell. Long story short is that he was recently diagnosed with stage 4 peritoneal cancer. It’s really a terrible and sad situation. Our worse case scenario for my Mom just became worse than any of us could have imagined. It remains to be seen where we’ll be with her in a few months. And I’m afraid to even predict how my brother will be managing if he can survive the treatment which sounds draconian. 


this is such a sad update indeed. I’m so sorry. At least you had resolved the house issue amicably with your brother with no drama.  


So sorry you and your family are going through all this.  Wishing your brother a speedy and complete recovery.   You write that your mother wants to come home with you.  Is this possible, at least in the short term or will she want to stay in her house to be close to your brother while he is undergoing treatment?


so sad to hear this. Sorry for your loss and troubles. Please keep us updated. 


Thanks all. She did come home with me and luckily I was able to negotiate 2 months free at her new apartment. Now of course she wants to rush back but I’ll be going a week before her to set up her apartment and help my brother prepare for surgery. He can’t be helping her right now and frankly it would just add stress having to shuttle her around and deal with her needs in a new place full of unopened boxes. She seems to understand. 


The situation is very fluid right now. Surgery isn’t scheduled pending a PET scan today, the availability of the surgeon and getting a spot in an operating room. Don’t get seriously ill in New Mexico! They literally don’t have enough health care workers for the population. 


if I had stage 4 cancer, I’d be in NYC at one of the big 3 or maybe TX at MD Anderson. Is that an option for him?


NizhoniGrrrl said:
Thanks all. She did come home with me and luckily I was able to negotiate 2 months free at her new apartment. Now of course she wants to rush back but I’ll be going a week before her to set up her apartment and help my brother prepare for surgery. He can’t be helping her right now and frankly it would just add stress having to shuttle her around and deal with her needs in a new place full of unopened boxes. She seems to understand. 


The situation is very fluid right now. Surgery isn’t scheduled pending a PET scan today, the availability of the surgeon and getting a spot in an operating room. Don’t get seriously ill in New Mexico! They literally don’t have enough health care workers for the population. 

 Seems like the best plan possible all things considered.  Best wishes to you and your family as you deal with all of this.


conandrob240 said:
if I had stage 4 cancer, I’d be in NYC at one of the big 3 or maybe TX at MD Anderson. Is that an option for him?

 Me too. But I don’t know how possible that is at this point. Picking up and leaving the state at a drop of a hat takes resources both financial and personal that he doesn’t have. We’ll be floating him financially as is, but I think it is more psychological for him. His biggest worry right now is being separated from his animals. Plus the time getting seen and tested all over again in a new setting is burning more time. But, moving him is in the back of my mind depending on what happens after I arrive.


Hi all,

So I've been with my brother for almost a month now, starting with an emergency hospital admission for a bowel blockage which (thankfully) cleared without surgery. We spent almost two weeks in a flurry of activity getting his "affairs in order" before he had his debulking surgery this week. The short version is that he has advanced Signet Cell cancer which seems to have started in his appendix. This is a super rare cancer and the surgeon said it had clearly been growing for a few years to get to this state. They could not remove all the tumor growth, so bailed on the surgery after doing some removal to decrease his symptoms (ascities, primarily), because the cancer cells were aggressive and the high temperature intra-peritoneal chemo (HIPECE) would not be effective. It is essentially a terminal condition and post op chemo could slow the growth but not cure the cancer. We don't know a prognosis, but online research suggest 5 year survival is 7% or 20-48 months at this point. Don't know how he'll handle chemo or if he'll decide it isn't worth it. Sad times!!

He did all the right things with his paperwork and I am the POA, healthcare proxy, etc. He is leaving the house to his nephews, and these and other assets will transfer to a testamentary trust which will be automatically created upon his death. My kids will get access to the assets when they turn 30 and I will be the trust administrator until that time. His wish is that I maintain the house until they take possession. This is a tricky wish for me to fulfill. The house is a hot mess and needs many thousands of dollars of work to really become ready for renters. He thinks the rental income should easily cover the expenses of maintaining the property. I really think he has no idea how much work the house needs and how expensive it will be to get there, not to mention my being an out-of-state landlady. I'm choosing not to push my point about this because it will only make him feel bad. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. In the meantime, I'm hoping he gets a few more years from the surgery and is able to have some good times before this awful cancer takes him from us.


Sorry for the diagnosis. 


I focus on the plan to rent the house until the heirs reach 30. Being a landlord is hard enough. Being an absentee landlord compounds the problem. I can regale you with the problems I faced when my mother rented her Millburn apartment to a drug addict. Or you can ask Spontaneous about the damage the tenants did to the house she bought. Or the tenants who rented their house to what turned out to be an Airbnb party. That one was in the N.Y. Times.

When things settle down a bit, discuss an alternative plan with him.


I am really sorry to read this. 


I understand the lack of desire to be distant landlords. 


Honestly, I wouldn’t discuss this with him at all. I’d let him believe you’ll do exactly as he wants with the house so he can leave peacefully when it’s time. Then you’ll do whatever you think is in the best interest of the asset you are managing for your boys.


conandrob240 said:
I am really sorry to read this. 


I understand the lack of desire to be distant landlords. 


Honestly, I wouldn’t discuss this with him at all. I’d let him believe you’ll do exactly as he wants with the house so he can leave peacefully when it’s time. Then you’ll do whatever you think is in the best interest of the asset you are managing for your boys.

 This!


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