Murders at a Synagogue
Tom_Reingold said:
I'm pretty shaken up. I suspected this sort of thing would happen eventually, and I fear it's going to get worse before it gets better.
@joan_crystal, you often have constructive ideas. What do you think are some good ways people can work together to mend our society?
never vote for a Republican again. for anything. ever.
dave said:
I can't believe Trump is going to actually visit Pittsburgh. I hope people block streets and he's forced to retreat.
I would hope so but I wouldn't count on it. Too many have other priorities - who will win Big Brother, America can Sing, America's got Talent, when will the new IPhone come out and what will it have.
Trump is shameless. His rhetoric empowers these nuts and yet he will present himself to show he "cares."
Gun control is putting a band aid on the symptoms, not addressing the root cause(s) of the societal violence we are experiencing. Those root causes are deeply ingrained in our nation's history. If the underlying emotional/economic/social causes of the violence did not exist, the Federal administration would not be able to trigger the eruption of violence and hate that is escalating by the day. Gun control addresses the how. More importantly, we need to address the why.
Yeah, but if they weren't triggered by the Feds they wouldn't happen (or happen far less anyway).
Which is easier - changing the attitude of the Federal government by electing better people, or trying to "correct" the lives of 350 million people?
Good article by Sullenberger on our shameless leadership:
Today, tragically, too many people in power are projecting the worst. Many are cowardly, complicit enablers, acting against the interests of the United States, our allies and democracy; encouraging extremists at home and emboldening our adversaries abroad; and threatening the livability of our planet. Many do not respect the offices they hold; they lack — or disregard — a basic knowledge of history, science and leadership; and they act impulsively, worsening a toxic political environment.
As a result, we are in a struggle for who and what we are as a people. We have lost what in the military we call unit cohesion. The fabric of our nation is under attack, while shame — a timeless beacon of right and wrong — seems dead.
This is not the America I know and love. We’re better than this. Our ideals, shared facts and common humanity are what bind us together as a nation and a people. Not one of these values is a political issue, but the lack of them is.
This current absence of civic virtues is not normal, and we must not allow it to become normal. We must rededicate ourselves to the ideals, values and norms that unite us and upon which our democracy depends. We must be engaged and informed voters, and we must get our information from credible, reputable sources.
For the first 85 percent of my adult life, I was a registered Republican. But I have always voted as an American. And this critical Election Day, I will do so by voting for leaders committed to rebuilding our common values and not pandering to our basest impulses.
joan_crystal said:
If I knew the answer to that question, believe me I would share it everywhere I could. One thing I do know is that none of us can do this alone. We all have to make a commitment to work together to build a supportive, accepting community. It begins with teaching our children how to live and work together by setting an example through our own behavior. We have to develop and teach a vocabulary free of words that label others negatively or spread hate. We need to evaluate others based on their behaviors and actions rather than their race, religion, physical abilities, age, gender, or any other divisive label. We need expand our definition of family to include our neighbors and expand our concept of neighbors to encompass our entire planet.
Sorry, but if I see a Nazi or some other spreading hate, I will label them as such. And that is based on evaluating their actions. I will never consider my Nazi loving neighbor to be defined as of my family.
I knew an old German woman, who was raised during the Nazi era, born 1928. She told me this was the thinking used by many "good" Germans, to tolerate all as neighbors, to treat them with respect, to assume the most radical will mellow and come around.
drummerboy said:
Yeah, but if they weren't triggered by the Feds they wouldn't happen (or happen far less anyway).
Which is easier - changing the attitude of the Federal government by electing better people, or trying to "correct" the lives of 350 million people?
I am not sure that electing better people is easier than working to correct the lives of 350 million people. The former is certainly helpful in trying to achieve the latter.
Rabbi Jeffrey Myers to the leaders of our country: " Words of hate must cease."
dave said:
I can't believe Trump is going to actually visit Pittsburgh. I hope people block streets and he's forced to retreat.
It's pretty much the Trumpiest thing he can do. He's been asked not to go, and he's not going to back down. He's probably hoping for demonstrators too, so he can point to them and tell his cult that he was met by a "liberal mob."
ml1 said:
dave said:It's pretty much the Trumpiest thing he can do. He's been asked not to go, and he's not going to back down. He's probably hoping for demonstrators too, so he can point to them and tell his cult that he was met by a "liberal mob."
I can't believe Trump is going to actually visit Pittsburgh. I hope people block streets and he's forced to retreat.
The best response to Trump in Pittsburgh would be to ignore him. He takes joy in "trolling" people when they are most vulnerable. It's like with Mike Pence, choosing a "Jews for Jesus" rabbi as his representative of the Jewish people for extending his "thoughts and prayers".
The first funeral service will be this morning at 11:00 am at the JCC in Squirrel Hill, for Dr. Jerry Rabinowitz.
The funeral service for brothers Cecil and David Rosenthal will be at Rodef Shalom Temple in Oakland at noon. ( Tree of Life is closed.)
Trump is scheduled to arrive at 3:00 pm. Local and state officials have said they won't appear with him when he visits a hospital.
cramer said:
Trump is scheduled to arrive at 3:00 pm. Local and state officials have said they won't appear with him when he visits a hospital.
Good. At least there is some decency left.
After all he did say he was elected to be "President for Pittsburgh, not Paris".
Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin and other members of the team are at the Rosenthal brothers' funeral service. That's the kind of town Pittsburgh is. (Still a Steelers and Pirates fan after all these years in N.J.
joan_crystal said:
Gun control is putting a band aid on the symptoms, not addressing the root cause(s) of the societal violence we are experiencing. Those root causes are deeply ingrained in our nation's history. If the underlying emotional/economic/social causes of the violence did not exist, the Federal administration would not be able to trigger the eruption of violence and hate that is escalating by the day. Gun control addresses the how. More importantly, we need to address the why.
In the meantime, we can get automatic weapons out of peoples hands and make it much harder to own a weapon especially if you are mentally ill.
The Pittsburgh Penguins will be wearing "Stronger Than Hate" patches on their jerseys tonight and will sign each shirt and hold an auction with proceeds to go to the Jewish Federation of Greater Pittsburgh and a fund set-up for the police officers wounded in the attack.
conandrob240 said:
joan_crystal said:In the meantime, we can get automatic weapons out of peoples hands and make it much harder to own a weapon especially if you are mentally ill.
Gun control is putting a band aid on the symptoms, not addressing the root cause(s) of the societal violence we are experiencing. Those root causes are deeply ingrained in our nation's history. If the underlying emotional/economic/social causes of the violence did not exist, the Federal administration would not be able to trigger the eruption of violence and hate that is escalating by the day. Gun control addresses the how. More importantly, we need to address the why.
Automatic weapons have been effectively banned since 1934 (albeit the National Firearms Act ("NFA") of 1934 taxes the weapons upon transfer rather than banning them outright) through a tax on transfer of such weapons. The NFA also levies a tax and registration requirement on sawed-off shotguns. The NFA statute then gave rise to the SCOTUS case, US v. Miller (1939) which upholds the federal government's right to regulate automatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns. See http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/National+Firearms+Act+of+1934
Also see: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/307/174
I believe what you are proposing is a ban on SEMI-automatic firearms (namely, you must pull the trigger of firearm EACH time that you desire to fire a cartridge/bullet).
==================================================
Excerpt from first link above:
National Firearms Act of 1934
>span class="hvr">first attempt at federal gun-control legislation, >span class="hvr">National Firearms Act (NFA) only covered two specific types of guns: machine guns and short-barrel firearms, including sawed-off shotguns. It did not attempt to ban either weapon, but merely to impose a tax on any transfers of such weapons. Despite >span class="hvr">limitations, it led to a precedent-setting U.S. Supreme Court decision.
yes, of course. I meant semi automatic. You know the ones that killed everyone in Pittsburgh? And my friend Fred’s daughter in FL? Yes, those.
conandrob240 said:
yes, of course. I meant semi automatic. You know the ones that killed everyone in Pittsburgh? And my friend Fred’s daughter in FL? Yes, those.
Thanks for the clarification.
PS I think we can all agree that the automatic weapon issue was resolved almost a 100 years ago (in response to the Valentine's day massacre in Chicago and gangsters like Capone).
BG9 said:
joan_crystal said:Sorry, but if I see a Nazi or some other spreading hate, I will label them as such. And that is based on evaluating their actions. I will never consider my Nazi loving neighbor to be defined as of my family.
If I knew the answer to that question, believe me I would share it everywhere I could. One thing I do know is that none of us can do this alone. We all have to make a commitment to work together to build a supportive, accepting community. It begins with teaching our children how to live and work together by setting an example through our own behavior. We have to develop and teach a vocabulary free of words that label others negatively or spread hate. We need to evaluate others based on their behaviors and actions rather than their race, religion, physical abilities, age, gender, or any other divisive label. We need expand our definition of family to include our neighbors and expand our concept of neighbors to encompass our entire planet.
I knew an old German woman, who was raised during the Nazi era, born 1928. She told me this was the thinking used by many "good" Germans, to tolerate all as neighbors, to treat them with respect, to assume the most radical will mellow and come around.
We are in agreement on this. I lost family in Europe as a result of Nazi action during the period leading up to and throughout WWII. Every year on Yom Kippur I sit through the remembrance service during which members of our congregation light a candle for a loved one who perished in the concentration camps. The developments in this country over the last few years scare me. The parallels with events leading up to the Third Reich are too disconcertingly similar to what happened then. My response to Tom was Utopian and would only work if everyone followed suit. In the mean while, we need to do the best we can as individuals and collectively to ease the tensions and reduce/eliminate the violence. As I wrote in my first comment on this thread, I don't know how to do this or even if it can be done. I do know that our collective survival depends on our finding a way.
Joan - Sadly, I think that Rabbi Myers' plea to end words of hate is Utopian also.
The suspect was obsessed with HIAS. HIAS was the agency which brought my wife's aunt to the U.S. after WWII. She was from Paris and her parents were able to get her out to the countryside when the Nazis came. They were killed at Auschwitz. (She was here Sunday for a family birthday celebration.)
If I'm not mistaken, HIAS helped my cousins here. They immigrated from Ukraine/USSR in 1989. (My ancestors came in around 1920.) So I'm grateful to HIAS.
conandrob240 said:
yes, of course. I meant semi automatic. You know the ones that killed everyone in Pittsburgh? And my friend Fred’s daughter in FL? Yes, those.
to a great extent this argument that the 2nd Amendment people like to make is a distinction without a difference. There are youtube videos of people firing semi-automatic weapons, and they can fire about 20 rounds in 10 seconds. In a small space like an office or place of worship a semi-automatic is going to result in a lot of carnage.
The gun people love to point out that non-gun owners tend to make trivial mistakes in the nomenclature of firearms. As if the larger point isn't what's really important. Which is that these shooters often have weapons specifically designed to inflict maximum human casualties, regardless of what you call them.
Dr. Jeff Cohen, president Allegheny Hospital where the shooter is being treated:
paulsurovell said:
Dr. Jeff Cohen, president Allegheny Hospital where the shooter is being treated:
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1057010272836247552
As one of those comments points out, ethicist Rambam (Maimonides) was a doctor.
Featured Events
-
Stephen Whitty Presents - Hometown Movie Stars: The Celebrated Actors Of CHS
May 6, 2024 at 7:00pm
Rentals
Advertisement
https://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/pittsburgh-mayor-asks-trump-to-delay-visit-to-city-1356379715569?v=railb&