Barr's Book Report On The Mueller Report Is In

Smedley

To me the whole Mueller report situation has always felt like a bit of a Hail Mary in terms of its capacity to bring down Trump. Some Democrats have been irrationally exuberant about it. Will be interesting to see what Adam schiff says on tomorrow morning's talk shows.


GL2
mrincredible said:


GL2 said:
Seriously depressing. Feel like Jesse Pinkman when Walt gets away with yet another lie and out of another jam: "He can't keep getting away with it!"
Yet, it seems he does.
I need a hobby.
 Um. 
The report could be a big freakin turd in Trump's punch bowl but Mueller feels it's not in his purview to carry out the prosecution.

 Is it possible Mueller handed off all potential crimes to various prosecutors to make them pardon-proof? 


mrincredible

As Mary Poppins says, anything is possible.

I think Mueller is a conscientious public servant and adherent to constitutional responsibilities. I think whatever comes out of his report will be honest. And I think he's very aware of the scope and prerogative of his role. I think the public should be allowed to see his full report, absent that which is covered by genuine executive privilege as determined by the Judiciary.

I didn't ever think he was going to recommend indictment of a sitting president, because the constitution reserves that process for Congress. He may have a boatload of information in his report that could lead to impeachment proceedings but it was always a pipe dream that the Mueller report would come out and a bunch of of FBI agents would swarm the White House and drag people away. (Did I ever indulge in this dream? Maybe...)

Maybe it's just a bunch of damning information about him that's not inevitable. It might turn enough voters against him. Then Private Citizen Trump gets to face the SDNY in 2023.


cramer

Then there are those who say they believe Mueller when he says no conspiracy but don't believe Mueller when he said the Russians hacked the DNC. 


jamie

No matter what the report says - the next call would be to release all of the underlying data that was used to support the findings.  This will go on for quite some time.  Overall, I'm glad to hear that Mueller's job is done.


jamie
paulsurovell said:
Civilization is threatened by Trump's crimes against humanity -- accelerating climate change, increasing the threat of nuclear war, attempting to overthrow a foreign government, trampling on the two-state solution and spewing racist and Islamophobic demagoguery.
But collusion with Russia in 2016 didn't happen.

Were you part of the problem by constantly making Russia your central focus?  There are 72 pages of your comments where Russia was mentioned - only 7 pages that mention climate - 5 pages that mention environment.  It doesn't even look like you started one thread with climate or environment.


GL2
mrincredible said:
As Mary Poppins says, anything is possible.
I think Mueller is a conscientious public servant and adherent to constitutional responsibilities. I think whatever comes out of his report will be honest. And I think he's very aware of the scope and prerogative of his role. I think the public should be allowed to see his full report, absent that which is covered by genuine executive privilege as determined by the Judiciary.
I didn't ever think he was going to recommend indictment of a sitting president, because the constitution reserves that process for Congress. He may have a boatload of information in his report that could lead to impeachment proceedings but it was always a pipe dream that the Mueller report would come out and a bunch of of FBI agents would swarm the White House and drag people away. (Did I ever indulge in this dream? Maybe...)
Maybe it's just a bunch of damning information about him that's not inevitable. It might turn enough voters against him. Then Private Citizen Trump gets to face the SDNY in 2023.

 I too never expected an indictment of Trump, but Jr.'s lies to Congress about the Tower meeting?


GL2

And there's no satisfaction in report's public airing and humiliation of Trump & minions. None of them has any capacity for shame.


GL2

Also wonder how I'd/we'd feel if he were new to our experience rather than watching him grift, collude with mobsters, and stiff contractors for his entire adult life. IOW, would it be different for someone who's experience of him were only a few years old? Maybe a lib dem casual political observer from Colorado.


Robert_Casotto

Mueller, Schmueller.

If MSNBCfowars says it’s so, it’s so.


terp

If ever there was a glaring example of how our mainstream press has become a propaganda machine  there is this conspiracy theory they have been pushing for 2.5 years.  Its embarrassing.   The last few years MSNBC has shown itself to be vastly less concerned about facts than even Fox News.


drummerboy
terp said:
If ever there was a glaring example of how our mainstream press has become a propaganda machine  there is this conspiracy theory they have been pushing for 2.5 years.  Its embarrassing.   The last few years MSNBC has shown itself to be vastly less concerned about facts than even Fox News.

 what an utterly ridiculous and clueless comment.


nan
drummerboy said
terp said:
If ever there was a glaring example of how our mainstream press has become a propaganda machine  there is this conspiracy theory they have been pushing for 2.5 years.  Its embarrassing.   The last few years MSNBC has shown itself to be vastly less concerned about facts than even Fox News.
 what an utterly ridiculous and clueless comment.

 2+ years of Russiagate Rachel prove terp right and let's not forget Keith Oberman, MSNBC alumni losing his marbles over a conspiracy theory.


terp
drummerboy said:
 what an utterly ridiculous and clueless comment.

MSNBC and CNN lead with this story for 2.5 years...Putin puppet, manchurian candidate,  wall closing in, etc.  There is literally nothing there.  There's no evidence, no indictments, nothing.

What an absolute disaster.  And MSNBC/CNN continue to try to spin this nonsense.  This is a failure of journalism of epic proportions.   Heads should roll.  


But you know what will happen?   Nothing.  Nobody will lose a job.  And people like you will defend them.  That is what is ridiculous and clueless. 



Jaytee
terp said:


drummerboy said:
 what an utterly ridiculous and clueless comment.
MSNBC and CNN lead with this story for 2.5 years...Putin puppet, manchurian candidate,  wall closing in, etc.  There is literally nothing there.  There's no evidence, no indictments, nothing.



 Nothing there...just 37 witches indicted on bad behavior....where there's smoke... there's a witch brewing something. You guys should not start spiking the football quite yet.....heads will roll...


terp
Jaytee said:
 Nothing there...just 37 witches indicted on bad behavior....where there's smoke... there's a witch brewing something. You guys should not start spiking the football quite yet.....heads will roll...

 You guys?  WTF is that supposed to mean?  If you mean people still tethered to reality,  then ok.  But don't for a second think I am a Trump supporter.  I do have less disdain for him than I do for disinformation campaigns and the sucker's who gleefully buy into the nonsense.

Why don't you share the evidence of collusion.  Or are you just a goal post shifting dolt?  


DaveSchmidt
Jaytee said:

Nothing there...just 37 witches indicted on bad behavior....where there's smoke... there's a witch brewing something.

The count: 26 Russian nationals, 3 Russian companies, 1 London banker, 1 California identity thief, plus Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, Stone, Papadapoulos and Gates.


Jaytee
DaveSchmidt said:


Jaytee said:

Nothing there...just 37 witches indicted on bad behavior....where there's smoke... there's a witch brewing something.
The count: 26 Russian nationals, 3 Russian companies, 1 London banker, 1 California identity thief, plus Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, Stone, Papadapoulos and Gates.

 Van her zwaan...pinedo..


DaveSchmidt
Jaytee said:

 Van her zwaan...pinedo..

Yes, the names of the London lawyer (whom I mislabeled a banker) and the Californian.


paulsurovell
LOST said:
So, a discussion of a report no one has seen.
And no one's opinion has changed.

We now know that Mueller's investigation resulted in zero indictments of anyone from the Trump campaign for cooperating/conspiring/coordinating with the Russian government in the 2016 election. Despite endless predictions in the media and by elected officials that indictments were coming, Mueller will save us, we just have to wait.  The wait is over.

Here's a good example from MSNBC's senior national security and intelligence analyst:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/03/05/brennan_predicts_mueller_report_more_indictments_on_friday_i_dont_have_inside_knowledge.html



paulsurovell
South_Mountaineer said:


paulsurovell said:
Civilization is threatened by Trump's crimes against humanity -- accelerating climate change, increasing the threat of nuclear war, attempting to overthrow a foreign government, trampling on the two-state solution and spewing racist and Islamophobic demagoguery.
But collusion with Russia in 2016 didn't happen.

That's what I meant by "Facts Matter."
You can read all about it in the Sub-Forum.
 All stuff most of us knew Trump was going to do. But some decided it was better to trash Hillary and focus on nonsense like her email. Spare us. 
And I don’t recommend going to the subforum. Lots of disinformation from @paulsurovell, and lots of us pointing that out got tired of being insulted instead of getting an intelligent response from him. 

This post gives you an idea of where the disinformation and insults are coming from. And there's also his arrogance to tell others what they should read and who they should speak to. Nothing new for @South_Mountaineer, who stalks me and says stuff like that on Twitter, where the vast majority of his tweets are directed at me. Here's @S_M telling me yesterday not to respond to Rep. Ted Lieu.


paulsurovell
jamie said:


paulsurovell said:
Civilization is threatened by Trump's crimes against humanity -- accelerating climate change, increasing the threat of nuclear war, attempting to overthrow a foreign government, trampling on the two-state solution and spewing racist and Islamophobic demagoguery.
But collusion with Russia in 2016 didn't happen.
Were you part of the problem by constantly making Russia your central focus?  There are 72 pages of your comments where Russia was mentioned - only 7 pages that mention climate - 5 pages that mention environment.  It doesn't even look like you started one thread with climate or environment.

 I've made the point numerous times that Russiagate is a scare story promoted by (a) the military-industrial complex that wants to demonize Russia to promote a New Cold War and (b) Democrats who are looking for a scapegoat for 2016. Two consequences are an increased risk of nuclear war and an obscene military budget which deprives the nation of funds necessary to combat climate change.

We face two main existential threats -- nuclear war and climate change. Russiagate makes both threats more dangerous.


paulsurovell
GL2 said:


mrincredible said:
As Mary Poppins says, anything is possible.
I think Mueller is a conscientious public servant and adherent to constitutional responsibilities. I think whatever comes out of his report will be honest. And I think he's very aware of the scope and prerogative of his role. I think the public should be allowed to see his full report, absent that which is covered by genuine executive privilege as determined by the Judiciary.
I didn't ever think he was going to recommend indictment of a sitting president, because the constitution reserves that process for Congress. He may have a boatload of information in his report that could lead to impeachment proceedings but it was always a pipe dream that the Mueller report would come out and a bunch of of FBI agents would swarm the White House and drag people away. (Did I ever indulge in this dream? Maybe...)
Maybe it's just a bunch of damning information about him that's not inevitable. It might turn enough voters against him. Then Private Citizen Trump gets to face the SDNY in 2023.
 I too never expected an indictment of Trump, but Jr.'s lies to Congress about the Tower meeting?

 Like everything else, we've seen no evidence that he lied to Congress.


jamie
paulsurovell said:

 I've made the point numerous times that Russiagate is a scare story promoted by (a) the military-industrial complex that wants to demonize Russia to promote a New Cold War

What's the factual proof of this?  I only see your the fringers and VIPs guys writing opinion pieces to this effect.  Maybe you can start a new thread on this specifically in the sub-forum.


nohero
jamie said:
Excellent summary: https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-understand-end-mueller-investigation-hint-you-cant-yet

 Lots of good commentary there.  There's this explanation (which some people need) that non-indictment doesn't mean the subject of the investigation was "pure as the driven snow:

To be specific, we generally do not construe the failure of an indictment to materialize as evidence of innocence on the part of an investigative subject, the standards of criminal prosecution being high both in terms of the quality and the quantity of evidence. That said, we generally do interpret what is called a declination as suggesting that prosecutors lacked adequate admissible evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

When a high-profile examination of a political scandal winds down without charges, therefore, we generally assume that the investigation is ending because of some deficiency in the evidence that makes proceeding with a prosecution unsound. And we consequently treat the end of the investigation as a moment at which the judgment of history and politics and morality naturally separate themselves from the judgment of the criminal law.

nohero
paulsurovell said:
 I've made the point numerous times that Russiagate is a scare story promoted by (a) the military-industrial complex that wants to demonize Russia to promote a New Cold War and (b) Democrats who are looking for a scapegoat for 2016. Two consequences are an increased risk of nuclear war and an obscene military budget which deprives the nation of funds necessary to combat climate change.
We face two main existential threats -- nuclear war and climate change. Russiagate makes both threats more dangerous.

 Investigating Trump because of all the "red flags" his conduct raises is not due to either (a) or (b) listed above, and claiming that investigating possible wrongdoing will increase the threat of nuclear war and climate change is a "scare tactic" and a false claim.


mrincredible

Everyone should take a moment to say to themselves "I don't know what's in the Mueller report."


DaveSchmidt
paulsurovell said:

Nothing new for @South_Mountaineer, who stalks me and says stuff like that on Twitter, where the vast majority of his tweets are directed at me. 

Mine, too. How Twitter works is that when you post something, it appears in the feeds of your followers, including South_Mountaineer and me. We don’t stalk you; your tweets find us.



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