More on Leaf Blower ban

Sorry to start a new discussion on this topic but I don't see a thread which deals with the actual ordinance that was adopted.

I must admit that I nodded out during the discussion about the blower issue when I came to believe that the rules would only restrict lawn companies. Yesterday, while going through some old mail I just happened to come across the actual ordinance (#3057-22) that was adopted and mailed to Maplewood residents. I must say it was a rude awakening.

To begin with, I fully support the idea of banning gas powered blowers. I think it's a shame it took so long to do so and feel that the spur to doing so was the pandemic. It was only when people were home trying to work because of the pandemic that they became aware of the outrageous pollution of the environment caused by gas blowers. But companies have been out there since I first moved here in 2002, and certainly long before that. Most people weren't bothered by it however because they weren’t exposed to it after work when home. Those of us at home had to deal with it.

But having said that, I think the ordinance goes too far. First of all there's nothing in it which convinces me that this is just for lawn companies. It continually talks about the prohibitions being applied to "any person." (Sections 4&5). Going beyond that, and contrary to the title of the ordinance, it puts restrictions on electric (and battery) leaf blowers. (Section 2). It actually allows gas powered turbo blowers (those monstrous round things on wheels) to operate on Sunday (section 3) but bans electric blowers on Sunday entirely (section 2). It bans electric leaf blowers entirely from use after 6:00 p.m., and after 5:00 p.m. on Saturdays (sections 2 & 3) forcing most of us into doing our lawn work when it is still hot outside under a time of constantly rising temperatures. And it certainly seems to me a form of religious discrimination to say that if you go to church on Sunday you are freed of the annoyance of listening to gas blowers (yet not turbo blowers) but if you go to synagogue or elsewhere on Saturday you have to deal with it. (Sections 2&3). Meanwhile there are no restrictions at all placed on gas powered lawn mowers.

If it is true, as has been suggested by forum posters that some lawn companies are no longer going to operate in Maplewood and people have to do their own lawns, these rules are going to have to be adjusted. I suggest that the town keep the gas blower elimination, and maintain the restrictions on turbo blowers. However, electric blowers and gas lawn mowers should be regulated solely by use of the town's general noise regulation rules, which as I recall, prohibit unnecessary noise for machines after 8:00 p.m. 

I think that the turbine blowers is a carve out for the golf course and DPW to use on fields.  It's not for the push blowers.

Correct, the exemption for the turbine blowers is restricted to certain places like the golf course.  I think this was necessary to get the golf course on board with ordinance and avoid a protracted legal fight.

The most recent ordinace was always a full ban on gas-powered leaf blowers, regardless of the user.  I thought that was very clear from all the communication that took place prior to the ordinance being passe.  The previous ordinance still allowed homeowners to use gas-powered leaf blowers but the goal was always a full ban.

yahooyahoo said:

Correct, the exemption for the turbine blowers is restricted to certain places like the golf course.  I think this was necessary to get the golf course on board with ordinance and avoid a protracted legal fight.

The most recent ordinace was always a full ban on gas-powered leaf blowers, regardless of the user.  I thought that was very clear from all the communication that took place prior to the ordinance being passe.  The previous ordinance still allowed homeowners to use gas-powered leaf blowers but the goal was always a full ban.

Was the goal a full ban on Sundays, discriminating against Shabbat observers who work during the week?   Was the goal to drive landscapers out of town creating a serious problem for older adults who are physically unable to do grounds maintenance themselves?  These may be unintended consequences but they create an hardship for many.

joan_crystal said:

yahooyahoo said:

Correct, the exemption for the turbine blowers is restricted to certain places like the golf course.  I think this was necessary to get the golf course on board with ordinance and avoid a protracted legal fight.

The most recent ordinace was always a full ban on gas-powered leaf blowers, regardless of the user.  I thought that was very clear from all the communication that took place prior to the ordinance being passe.  The previous ordinance still allowed homeowners to use gas-powered leaf blowers but the goal was always a full ban.

Was the goal a full ban on Sundays, discriminating against Shabbat observers who work during the week?   Was the goal to drive landscapers out of town creating a serious problem for older adults who are physically unable to do grounds maintenance themselves?  These may be unintended consequences but they create an hardship for many.

Joan:
This has been discussed since at least 2016.  Of couse the goal was not to discriminate against Shabbat observers or citizens who are unable to do maintenance themselves.  Did you bring these concerns to the TC during the discussions before the ordinance was passed?  If so, what did they say?

I remember the discussion about the gas blower ban and could anticipate that it would become total. However, when did the discussion shift to restricting the use of electric and battery powered blowers? And how were gas powered mowers not at all touched? I can't figure out whether this is about fumes or noise, but for gas mowers to escape regulation seems bizarre to me in light of how the ordinance regulates electric blowers.   

I saw a landscaper truck last week with a generator in the back running, maybe to charge the batteries on his equipment? Use an electric leaf blower? 
I am not going to restrict myself, I use my leaf blower and lawn mower. My neighbor could care less. Who’s gonna call the town if you have to clean up your driveway after cutting the grass? Ridiculous.

Jaytee said:

I saw a landscaper truck last week with a generator in the back running, maybe to charge the batteries on his equipment? Use an electric leaf blower? 
I am not going to restrict myself, I use my leaf blower and lawn mower. My neighbor could care less. Who’s gonna call the town if you have to clean up your driveway after cutting the grass? Ridiculous.

What if a cop drives by when you are out there? This is my concern - I am out with my electric leaf blower on Saturday at 5:30 and my neighbor is mowing the lawn with his gas mower. A cop comes down the street and tickets me $100 while my neighbor keeps on mowing, without consequence. And this under the auspices of a town ordinance designed to "strengthen its commitment health to public health and wellness and environmental sustainability . . ."

fed123 said:

What if a cop drives by when you are out there? This is my concern - I am out with my electric leaf blower on Saturday at 5:30 and my neighbor is mowing the lawn with his gas mower. A cop comes down the street and tickets me $100 while my neighbor keeps on mowing, without consequence. And this under the auspices of a town ordinance designed to "strengthen its commitment health to public health and wellness and environmental sustainability . . ."

Cops need to be ticketing people speeding and running red lights. That’s why it’s ridiculous. My electric leaf blower makes a lot of noise, I also have a gas Stihl blower which makes about the same noise. I’m not gonna be sweeping the driveway. 

Jaytee said:

fed123 said:

What if a cop drives by when you are out there? This is my concern - I am out with my electric leaf blower on Saturday at 5:30 and my neighbor is mowing the lawn with his gas mower. A cop comes down the street and tickets me $100 while my neighbor keeps on mowing, without consequence. And this under the auspices of a town ordinance designed to "strengthen its commitment health to public health and wellness and environmental sustainability . . ."

Cops need to be ticketing people speeding and running red lights. That’s why it’s ridiculous. My electric leaf blower makes a lot of noise, I also have a gas Stihl blower which makes about the same noise. I’m not gonna be sweeping the driveway. 

The police won't be used to enforce this ordinance. 

fed123 said:

I remember the discussion about the gas blower ban and could anticipate that it would become total. However, when did the discussion shift to restricting the use of electric and battery powered blowers? And how were gas powered mowers not at all touched? I can't figure out whether this is about fumes or noise, but for gas mowers to escape regulation seems bizarre to me in light of how the ordinance regulates electric blowers.   

It took the town at least 7 years to ban leaf blowers. Imagine what would have happened if they tried to ban both leaf blowers and lawn mowers at the same time.  

I think leaf blowers were the initial target because they are used from March through December and the noise is worse than lawnmowers (in my opinion).  Lawnmowers get used about May through September.

joan_crystal said:

Was the goal a full ban on Sundays, discriminating against Shabbat observers who work during the week? Was the goal to drive landscapers out of town creating a serious problem for older adults who are physically unable to do grounds maintenance themselves? These may be unintended consequences but they create an hardship for many.

The points about Shabbat observers and physical limitations are well taken, but this is my partially mitigating question: Is there any need for leaf blowing or raking to be more than a one-time-per-year job?

DaveSchmidt said:

The points about Shabbat observers and physical limitations are well taken, but this is my partially mitigating question: Is there any need for leaf blowing or raking to be more than a one-time-per-year job?

I mulch my leaves with my mower in the fall and leave the clippings on the grass in the summer. I also trim the lawn with wire trimmer. There is always residue left over on the sidewalks that can left there or blown away after each mow. I prefer to blow it away. 

yahooyahoo said:

It took the town at least 7 years to ban leaf blowers. Imagine what would have happened if they tried to ban both leaf blowers and lawn mowers at the same time.  

I think leaf blowers were the initial target because they are used from March through December and the noise is worse than lawnmowers (in my opinion).  Lawnmowers get used about May through September.

My issue is not about banning gas mowers but about subjecting them to at least the the same regulations as imposed upon electric blowers. They both make noise but the gas mowers are clearly more detrimental to the environment. I assumed there was general agreement about that. 

fed123 said:

There is always residue left over on the sidewalks that can left there or blown away after each mow. I prefer to blow it away.

Before leaf blowers became all the rage, I always used the mower to clear the sidewalks.

My guess is that the blowers became "the rage," as you say, because the consensus view was that they were a better way of clearing the sidewalks. 

fed123 said:

My guess is that the blowers became "the rage," as you say, because the consensus view was that they were a better way of clearing the sidewalks. 

Blowers are better tools than rakes.

It's as simple as that.

DaveSchmidt said:

The points about Shabbat observers and physical limitations are well taken, but this is my partially mitigating question: Is there any need for leaf blowing or raking to be more than a one-time-per-year job?

Depends on the number of leaf shedding trees you have on or in wind proximity of your property and how many curb cuts and storm drains you need to clear.  Those of us on tree lined streets with large old oaks need to clear leaves on a continuous basis and if you have sycamores, they shed all year. 

DaveSchmidt said:

The points about Shabbat observers and physical limitations are well taken, but this is my partially mitigating question: Is there any need for leaf blowing or raking to be more than a one-time-per-year job?

once a year? Are you just liking the word eristic that much? You can use your mower to “blow “ away the leaves in the fall too….

fed123 said:

My guess is that the blowers became "the rage," as you say, because the consensus view was that they were a better way of clearing the sidewalks.

Presumably. Yet somehow towns like Maplewood and my childhood subdivision managed for all those years without them.

joan_crystal said:

Depends on the number of leaf shedding trees you have on or in wind proximity of your property and how many curb cuts and storm drains you need to clear. Those of us on tree lined streets with large old oaks need to clear leaves on a continuous basis and if you have sycamores, they shed all year.

That’s a fair answer.

Jaytee said:

once a year? Are you just liking the word eristic that much? You can use your mower to “blow “ away the leaves in the fall too….

Yep. Other than the situations that Joan mentions, where leaves threaten to smother the lawn or clog storm drains all season, a raking once every autumn after the leaves have shed works for me.

fed123 said:

yahooyahoo said:

It took the town at least 7 years to ban leaf blowers. Imagine what would have happened if they tried to ban both leaf blowers and lawn mowers at the same time.  

I think leaf blowers were the initial target because they are used from March through December and the noise is worse than lawnmowers (in my opinion).  Lawnmowers get used about May through September.

My issue is not about banning gas mowers but about subjecting them to at least the the same regulations as imposed upon electric blowers. They both make noise but the gas mowers are clearly more detrimental to the environment. I assumed there was general agreement about that. 

They both are very bad for the environment. 

yahooyahoo said:

fed123 said:

yahooyahoo said:

It took the town at least 7 years to ban leaf blowers. Imagine what would have happened if they tried to ban both leaf blowers and lawn mowers at the same time.  

I think leaf blowers were the initial target because they are used from March through December and the noise is worse than lawnmowers (in my opinion).  Lawnmowers get used about May through September.

My issue is not about banning gas mowers but about subjecting them to at least the the same regulations as imposed upon electric blowers. They both make noise but the gas mowers are clearly more detrimental to the environment. I assumed there was general agreement about that. 

They both are very bad for the environment. 

Then why leave one of them wholly unregulated?

fed123 said:

yahooyahoo said:

fed123 said:

yahooyahoo said:

It took the town at least 7 years to ban leaf blowers. Imagine what would have happened if they tried to ban both leaf blowers and lawn mowers at the same time.  

I think leaf blowers were the initial target because they are used from March through December and the noise is worse than lawnmowers (in my opinion).  Lawnmowers get used about May through September.

My issue is not about banning gas mowers but about subjecting them to at least the the same regulations as imposed upon electric blowers. They both make noise but the gas mowers are clearly more detrimental to the environment. I assumed there was general agreement about that. 

They both are very bad for the environment. 

Then why leave one of them wholly unregulated?

Fed- I think it's a matter of breaking the issue down into manageable pieces (one fight at a time).  If the TC had gone after leaf blowers and lawn mowers as a package deal, do you think there would be any restrictions?  I doubt it. 

DaveSchmidt said:

Is there any need for leaf blowing or raking to be more than a one-time-per-year job?

We DIY and find that twice during leaf season is about right for us.  (We rake or use an electric blower.)

I have to rake both maple and oak leaves.  Maple leaves drop late September to early November.  Then oak leaves drop early November to mid-late December.  Don't be telling me that raking once or twice a year is sufficient.  You are not living in my reality.

mrmaplewood said:

You are not living in my reality.

No doubt about that.

DaveSchmidt said:

No doubt about that.

hahaha… you crack me up sometimes 

yahooyahoo said:

Fed- I think it's a matter of breaking the issue down into manageable pieces (one fight at a time).  If the TC had gone after leaf blowers and lawn mowers as a package deal, do you think there would be any restrictions?  I doubt it. 

Obviously to enact legislation involves compromises, but only within rational bounds. That is a constitutional principle (14th Amendment). To allow gas turbo-leaf blowers and gas lawn mowers to operate on Sunday, but subject electric and battery operated blowers to a $100 fine under a purported environmental regulation, violates basic rationality. 

Landscapers are not using turbine blowers on residential properties.  That's the distinction (and why it's rational).  The turbine blowers are going to be used on large properties such as the golf course and public parks.

Steve said:

Landscapers are not using turbine blowers on residential properties.  That's the distinction (and why it's rational).  The turbine blowers are going to be used on large properties such as the golf course and public parks.

That limitation is not written into the law. My neighbor's lawn company uses turbo blowers on his lawn. Under the law they could drop by and do that on a Sunday. If I am doing my lawn with an electric blower right next door, I get fined $100.