More nonsense in the MMS hallways
Apr 3, 2015 at 11:27am Edited
Not sure how you read it to mean that. What I get from it is that ALL bullying is bad and should not be tolerated.Jackson_Fusion said:
lizziecat said:
Jackson Fusion:
Fat shaming is not "just obnoxious silliness." It is bullying, the same as any other bullying, and causes just as much pain and permanent psychological damage as shaming on the basis of race or sexual orientation or religion.
Our goals, as decent human beings, should be to eliminate all bullying, and all behaviors that cause pain to others, not condone some bullying because we think that "people should be ashamed, but aren't."
Shame on you.
That's what you've gotten out of this thread? That people who let women get harassed are being bullied?
sac said:
Not sure how you read it to mean that. What I get from it is that ALL bullying is bad and should not be tolerated.Jackson_Fusion said:
lizziecat said:
Jackson Fusion:
Fat shaming is not "just obnoxious silliness." It is bullying, the same as any other bullying, and causes just as much pain and permanent psychological damage as shaming on the basis of race or sexual orientation or religion.
Our goals, as decent human beings, should be to eliminate all bullying, and all behaviors that cause pain to others, not condone some bullying because we think that "people should be ashamed, but aren't."
Shame on you.
That's what you've gotten out of this thread? That people who let women get harassed are being bullied?
I'm sure they can speak for themselves. Sufficient to say, if the intent was to turn this into some sort of indictment on my incidental comment about fat shaming, which was bowdlerized in Lizzie's post, then she's misinterpreted me- you can't be fat shamed because there's nothing to be ashamed about. The rest of the sentence made clear that fat shaming is about people being obnoxious jerks, not about shame. Real shaming does have a purpose- pointing out truly abhorrent behavior like allowing girls to be assaulted, not people being overweight.
What an unserious digression, really.
While I was flipping out completely, reading this thread, I made sure that my son was VERY clear on what was acceptable behavior toward females, and what was not. He already knows, of course, but my outrage made quite an impression, as well. I also told him that it is his responsibility to make his opinions known immediately if he sees anyone he is friendly with behaving like that. They do have cameras, and in places the kids are not aware of, as we just found out last week in another matter, so maybe done of these incidents are on video. Good luck, and good job raising a strong daughter!
finnegan said:
I don't think that you need an attorney at this point, but would encourage you to put the complaint in writing and send to principal while cc'ing everyone up the chain (MS anti-bullying person, acting superintendent, district's attorney.) I think it would help to quote exactly what is being said to your daughter and friends, include the frequency of the harassment, be clear to label this behavior as harassment based on gender that creates a hostile school environment, and absolutely include that you have reported this behavior before and nothing was done to address it. State and federal laws are clear on the school's obligation to address this. There are good resources here: http://www.state.nj.us/education/students/safety/behavior/hib/ and also here: http://www.stopbullying.gov/laws/new-jersey.html See especially the Guidance for Parents at the first link. Good luck. Your daughter should not have to put up with this.
This is good advice.
callista said:
While I was flipping out completely, reading this thread, I made sure that my son was VERY clear on what was acceptable behavior toward females, and what was not. He already knows, of course, but my outrage made quite an impression, as well. I also told him that it is his responsibility to make his opinions known immediately if he sees anyone he is friendly with behaving like that. They do have cameras, and in places the kids are not aware of, as we just found out last week in another matter, so maybe done of these incidents are on video. Good luck, and good job raising a strong daughter!
You are a good parent.
CERF UPHOLDS BULLYING CHARGES IN FIRST CASES UNDER TOUGH NEW LAW
JOHN MOONEY | FEBRUARY 1, 2013
State education chief rejects parents’ appeals in East Brunswick, Tenafly incidents.
One involved a East Brunswick sixth-grader who called out a classmate in gym for “dancing like a girl.” The other involved a fourth-grader in Tenafly who embarrassed a classmate for having head lice.
In the first legal cases to go the distance under New Jersey’s tough new law, both episodes have been upheld by the state as incidents of bullying and harassment.
Parents of the accused students had appealed the initial findings by the local districts. But state Education Commissioner Chris Cerf this month upheld the schools’ determinations in each instance, the first such rulings by the commissioner under the state’s Anti-Bullying Bill of Rights.
Legal experts said there will surely be more such cases to come.
“It takes a while for them to work through the system, but you’ll certainly see more,” said Phil Stern, an attorney with Adams Stern Gutierrez & Lattiboudere in Newark, who represents school boards in these and other cases.
Stern said he was not surprised by the appeals, each focusing more on the findings than on any particular penalty. Nor was he surprised by the outcomes, with Cerf largely required only to determine if the process was properly followed.
“You will have a super uphill battle in one of these cases by the time you come before the commissioner,” he said.
The 2011 law requires that schools follow specific procedures and timelines in all cases of even alleged bullying, stipulating when investigations must be launched and resolved with formal findings.
The new law has roiled school districts since its enactment, with more than 13,000 incidents reported by schools in the law’s first year. A state task force monitoring the law’s implementation this week praised the increased awareness of bullying in schools, but also recommended more flexibility be given principals to determine what cases are to be formally investigated.
But that was long after each of these first cases moved through the process, two cases that highlighted some of the tensions that have arisen surrounding the law and its aftermath.
In East Brunswick, for instance, the incident took place in November 2011, when the accused child insulted his classmate by calling him “gay” and saying he “danced like a girl,” according to the case’s legal record.
The school investigated the claim, interviewing the students and witnesses, and found that under the district’s anti-bullying policies -- now strengthened under the state’s new law -- it warranted a finding of bullying. The boy was given three days of detention.
The parents appealed to the state, demanding that the finding be reversed and damages paid. They also asked that the accusing student be given three days of detention.
The case went to an administrative law judge, who found that the case had fallen under the definition as laid out in the new law as “verbal acts motivated by distinguishing characteristics, i.e. gender and sexual orientation.”
“A.C. [the accused] is not a chronic troublemaker, but his actions were hurtful and unkind,” read a synopsis of Cerf’s decision. “The school district’s response of assigning him to detention was designed to redirect A.C.’s behavior in a manner that was consistent with his age and that recognized this was a first offense.”
Cerf, who is an attorney, has the responsibility in these matters to only determine that the local agency had not acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner, and he did so.
“As [the new law] directs that each school directs that each school district’s anti-bullying policy shall contain ‘consequences and appropriate remedial action for a person who commits an act of harassment, intimidation or bullying,’ [the board] did not act arbitrarily, capriciously or unreasonably in imposing upon A.C. three days of detention as discipline for his conduct,” Cerf wrote.
The Tenafly case followed a similar pattern. The incident took place in September 2011. The accused boy called out a girl who had dyed her hair and said she did so because she had lice.
Following an investigation, a finding of bullying was reached, and the boy – identified by his initials L.L. -- was given a school assignment to promote greater sensitivity to others. His parents were notified in writing, but nothing else went into his record.
The parents appealed, demanding the school formally apologize and pay the family all legal fees, in addition to $50,000 for emotional damages.
The administrative law judge in this case again found in favor of the district, saying the boy’s comments “constituted HIB as defined by the law, and interfered with the rights of another student.”
The girl had, in fact, had head lice and the boy claimed he did not intend to embarrass her. But Cerf upheld that board’s determination that the boy “should have realized that pointing out his classmate’s problem would hurt her feelings,” according to the synopsis.
“The petitioners have failed to sustain their burden of establishing that the board had acted arbitrarily, capriciously or unreasonably, in finding that the conduct of L.L. in this matter constituted an instance of harassment, intimidation or bullying” Cerf wrote.
Local school board lawyers said given the strength of the new law, the appeals from parents are sure to become more common – although not all may want to take it all the way to the state commissioner.
“I actually expected more,” said Jonathan Busch of Schwartz Simon Edelstein & Celso in Whippany, whose office represents school boards. “And in the beginning there were more, but they now seem to be dropped off.
“Once the procedures have been in place, districts seem to be handling this with more confidence and knowledge,” he said.
But Stern, the Newark lawyer, said many parents still fear such a bullying finding will be black mark on their child’s academic record, and even if there is no real penalty, they will go to great lengths to remove it.
“I sympathize with their predicament,” he said, “although I really don’t think whether a child goes to college will be much affected by this.”
(From NJ Spotlight)
JOHN MOONEY | FEBRUARY 1, 2013
State education chief rejects parents’ appeals in East Brunswick, Tenafly incidents.
One involved a East Brunswick sixth-grader who called out a classmate in gym for “dancing like a girl.” The other involved a fourth-grader in Tenafly who embarrassed a classmate for having head lice.
In the first legal cases to go the distance under New Jersey’s tough new law, both episodes have been upheld by the state as incidents of bullying and harassment.
Parents of the accused students had appealed the initial findings by the local districts. But state Education Commissioner Chris Cerf this month upheld the schools’ determinations in each instance, the first such rulings by the commissioner under the state’s Anti-Bullying Bill of Rights.
Legal experts said there will surely be more such cases to come.
“It takes a while for them to work through the system, but you’ll certainly see more,” said Phil Stern, an attorney with Adams Stern Gutierrez & Lattiboudere in Newark, who represents school boards in these and other cases.
Stern said he was not surprised by the appeals, each focusing more on the findings than on any particular penalty. Nor was he surprised by the outcomes, with Cerf largely required only to determine if the process was properly followed.
“You will have a super uphill battle in one of these cases by the time you come before the commissioner,” he said.
The 2011 law requires that schools follow specific procedures and timelines in all cases of even alleged bullying, stipulating when investigations must be launched and resolved with formal findings.
The new law has roiled school districts since its enactment, with more than 13,000 incidents reported by schools in the law’s first year. A state task force monitoring the law’s implementation this week praised the increased awareness of bullying in schools, but also recommended more flexibility be given principals to determine what cases are to be formally investigated.
But that was long after each of these first cases moved through the process, two cases that highlighted some of the tensions that have arisen surrounding the law and its aftermath.
In East Brunswick, for instance, the incident took place in November 2011, when the accused child insulted his classmate by calling him “gay” and saying he “danced like a girl,” according to the case’s legal record.
The school investigated the claim, interviewing the students and witnesses, and found that under the district’s anti-bullying policies -- now strengthened under the state’s new law -- it warranted a finding of bullying. The boy was given three days of detention.
The parents appealed to the state, demanding that the finding be reversed and damages paid. They also asked that the accusing student be given three days of detention.
The case went to an administrative law judge, who found that the case had fallen under the definition as laid out in the new law as “verbal acts motivated by distinguishing characteristics, i.e. gender and sexual orientation.”
“A.C. [the accused] is not a chronic troublemaker, but his actions were hurtful and unkind,” read a synopsis of Cerf’s decision. “The school district’s response of assigning him to detention was designed to redirect A.C.’s behavior in a manner that was consistent with his age and that recognized this was a first offense.”
Cerf, who is an attorney, has the responsibility in these matters to only determine that the local agency had not acted in an arbitrary and capricious manner, and he did so.
“As [the new law] directs that each school directs that each school district’s anti-bullying policy shall contain ‘consequences and appropriate remedial action for a person who commits an act of harassment, intimidation or bullying,’ [the board] did not act arbitrarily, capriciously or unreasonably in imposing upon A.C. three days of detention as discipline for his conduct,” Cerf wrote.
The Tenafly case followed a similar pattern. The incident took place in September 2011. The accused boy called out a girl who had dyed her hair and said she did so because she had lice.
Following an investigation, a finding of bullying was reached, and the boy – identified by his initials L.L. -- was given a school assignment to promote greater sensitivity to others. His parents were notified in writing, but nothing else went into his record.
The parents appealed, demanding the school formally apologize and pay the family all legal fees, in addition to $50,000 for emotional damages.
The administrative law judge in this case again found in favor of the district, saying the boy’s comments “constituted HIB as defined by the law, and interfered with the rights of another student.”
The girl had, in fact, had head lice and the boy claimed he did not intend to embarrass her. But Cerf upheld that board’s determination that the boy “should have realized that pointing out his classmate’s problem would hurt her feelings,” according to the synopsis.
“The petitioners have failed to sustain their burden of establishing that the board had acted arbitrarily, capriciously or unreasonably, in finding that the conduct of L.L. in this matter constituted an instance of harassment, intimidation or bullying” Cerf wrote.
Local school board lawyers said given the strength of the new law, the appeals from parents are sure to become more common – although not all may want to take it all the way to the state commissioner.
“I actually expected more,” said Jonathan Busch of Schwartz Simon Edelstein & Celso in Whippany, whose office represents school boards. “And in the beginning there were more, but they now seem to be dropped off.
“Once the procedures have been in place, districts seem to be handling this with more confidence and knowledge,” he said.
But Stern, the Newark lawyer, said many parents still fear such a bullying finding will be black mark on their child’s academic record, and even if there is no real penalty, they will go to great lengths to remove it.
“I sympathize with their predicament,” he said, “although I really don’t think whether a child goes to college will be much affected by this.”
(From NJ Spotlight)
AliGrant said:
SGW said:
Unfortunately, our community also has our share of some really troubled youth.
And it starts with the parents. That is why I don't think that talking to the parents would necessarily help.
I remember at 8th grade graduation the parents were clearly asked not to applaud or cheer when their child's name was called but wait until the end. It was reiterated after the first parent disregarded the request. A small but notable number of parents completely disregarded the request and yelled and clapped with gusto. Complete disrespect for "authority"
Many of those were parents of kids who were known to have been in trouble at some point. No wonder...
Not to drift, but... http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/03/us/graduation-cheering-arrest-warrant/
Jun 4, 2015 at 4:24pm Edited
ParticleMan said:
AliGrant said:Not to drift, but... http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/03/us/graduation-cheering-arrest-warrant/
SGW said:
Unfortunately, our community also has our share of some really troubled youth.
And it starts with the parents. That is why I don't think that talking to the parents would necessarily help.
I remember at 8th grade graduation the parents were clearly asked not to applaud or cheer when their child's name was called but wait until the end. It was reiterated after the first parent disregarded the request. A small but notable number of parents completely disregarded the request and yelled and clapped with gusto. Complete disrespect for "authority"
Many of those were parents of kids who were known to have been in trouble at some point. No wonder...
Yes..I read this article yesterday and couldn't decide whether to be horrified or pleased. I can't be comfortable seeing anyone charged for cheering for their kids, but I was very bothered by the disruption of my child's 8th grade graduation by parents who refused to listen to authority or play by the rules for the occasion.
Yes..I read this article yesterday and couldn't decide whether to be horrified or pleased. I can't be comfortable seeing anyone charge for cheering for their kids, but I was very bothered by the disruption of my child's 8th grade graduation by parents who refused to listen to authority or play by the rules for the occasion.
I felt exactly the same way about it.
Is this phenomenon really about bowing to authority, or is it about honoring our kids together, as a community? About behaving with common courtesy toward neighbors and friends, or disregarding the accomplishment of every child but one's own and behaving like a braying ass?
We saw identical behavior at middle school graduation and the vibe that came across was, This is our private reality TV show, we're the stars, the rest of you are just spectators.
That too -- well said
JCSO said:
Is this phenomenon really about bowing to authority, or is it about honoring our kids together, as a community? About behaving with common courtesy toward neighbors and friends, or disregarding the accomplishment of every child but one's own and behaving like a braying ass?
We saw identical behavior at middle school graduation and the vibe that came across was, This is our private reality TV show, we're the stars, the rest of you are just spectators.
In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.
Employment Wanted
Latest Jobs
Employment Wanted
-
Apr 24, 2024 at 1:13pm
-
****Laundry + Bedrooms Organization : closets,drawers,shelves
Apr 24, 2024 at 8:04am
-
Nomadic Notary: Professional Notary Services Available!
Apr 22, 2024 at 3:43pm
-
Apr 22, 2024 at 12:46pm
-
Apr 22, 2024 at 10:49am
Help Wanted
-
Part-time long term Nanny for toddler boy in Basking Ridge
Apr 24, 2024 at 7:49pm
-
PF802 FT M-Th Nanny for 2 (ASAP Start)
Apr 24, 2024 at 1:21pm
-
Photo Booth Attendant- Great for high school senior, college student, profeessional
Apr 24, 2024 at 5:55am
-
Part time Driving Sitter Needed (Start ASAP)
Apr 23, 2024 at 1:18pm
-
CKF600 Part Time Nanny for Toddler (ASAP Start)
Apr 22, 2024 at 3:21pm
Lessons/Instruction
For Sale
Garage Sales
-
HUGE Rummage sale to benefit the Bloomfield High School Robotics Team Sale Date: Apr 27, 2024
More info
Advertisement
That's what you've gotten out of this thread? That people who let women get harassed are being bullied and being called overweight is the same as being racially harassed?
That makes as much sense as your earlier suggestion, namely that the women should get together and "beat the ***** out of their tormentors".
What was that about eliminating "all behaviors that cause people pain" again?
You're a bit all over the map