Menendez Jury Deadlocked

LOST

The Judge sent them home early and told them to come back tomorrow and keep talking.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/13/bob-menendez-trial-jury-deadlocked-244848


cramer

The judge declared a mistrial.


LOST

Reports say the jury was 10-2 for acquittal on all counts. Mitch McConnell has called for an Ethics Committee investigation.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/judge-declares-mistrial-new-jersey-sen-bob-menendez-bribery-trial-n821461


John

Dems dodged a bullet on this one.


yahooyahoo

Yup. Menendez is sleazy.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Dems dodged a bullet on this one.



drummerboy

meh. I always thought the charges were pretty weak. I would read story after story about this case, and I could never see anything that Menendez did that was illegal. Or even questionable. I saw lots of quid but no quo.

Mind you - I hate the guy as a Senator, but any Dem in a storm.


ml1

at the heart of this case, the evidence is pretty strong that Melgen really is a friend of Menendez.  They have known each other for going on 30 years, they go on vacations together, etc.  If the doctor just wanted to buy a senator, he could do that without spending all that time hanging out together.  And lobbying on behalf of a buddy, even a rich one who flies you around in a private jet, is not a crime.

Menendez knows it looks bad though, which is almost certainly why he didn't disclose the value of the vacations he was taking with Melgen.


BG9


yahooyahoo said:

Yup. Menendez is sleazy.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Dems dodged a bullet on this one.

I know one sleazy thing he did was to vote against the importation of cheaper pharmaceuticals from Canada. As did our other esteemed senator.

But do you know of anything else?

As for this trial, 10 of the 12 jurors thought him innocent of all 18 charges.

Its troubling when government comes up with so many charges. The complexity of the Federal statutes make it possible. Government hopes by throwing everything but the kitchen sink that something will stick, that jurors will compromise at "lets hit him with a couple."

His defense must have been expensive. Did he pay? How much? Will further trials bankrupt him? One advantage government has is unlimited resources.


LOST


BG9 said:



I know one sleazy thing he did was to vote against the importation of cheaper pharmaceuticals from Canada. As did our other esteemed senator.

But do you know of anything else?




We may disagree with that vote but was it "sleazy"? How many of his constituents are employed by the Pharmaceutical Industry?


Mike

Of course he won’t pay for this, he’s a politician.    He will hold a soiree / charity fundraiser that will cover everything.  That won’t (or hasn’t) prevented him from whining about ‘getting his years back’.  


Obviously it’s early yet, but it’s looking like we’re about to throw Al Franken out of office.  Not because of the severity of what he did, but because of the optics / climate.  Menendez has to go.  


LOST

Throwing someone out of office for one incident 20 years ago before he was a Senator is rather extreme.

Who would you prefer to Menendez.

If Roy Moore is elected to the Senate the other 99 compared to him will look like angels. (Well maybe not Ted Cruz)


drummerboy

are you talking about Franken? Wasn't his thing in 2006?

But I don't think he should go either.

LOST said:

Throwing someone out of office for one incident 20 years ago before he was a Senator is rather extreme.

Who would you prefer to Menendez.

If Roy Moore is elected to the Senate the other 99 compared to him will look like angels. (Well maybe not Ted Cruz)



LOST

You're correct. I was mistaken in saying 20 years ago. It was a little more than 10 years ago and before he was a Senator.

Should the Senate discipline a member for something that occurred before he was a Senator and which was not the subject of a criminal charge? Apparently they declined to deal with an accusation against former Senator David Vitter because it occurred before he was a Senator. 


Klinker


BG9 said:



As for this trial, 10 of the 12 jurors thought him innocent of all 18 charges.

"Not guilty" and "innocent" are not synonyms.



Eric

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?


Klinker


EricBurbank said:

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?

Ummmm.... if you can't distinguish a difference in magnitude between a single unwanted kiss and multiple acts of pedophilia......well, I am worried about you.

What Franken did was wrong, no question but was it bad enough to remove him from elected office?  I think that should probably be left to the voters who put him there in the first place.

Of course, if the party affiliations were reversed I am sure that you would feel differently.  Me, I know people who's lives have been ruined by folks like Moore who prey on children.  I would oppose him no matter what letter he had after his name.


Scully


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Dems dodged a bullet on this one.

Actually the entire state dodged a bullet.  Imagine what piece of **** Christie would have appointed...


drummerboy

yeah. the picture clearly shows that Franken is not touching her. It was a joke photo.

And in fact it doesn't show the kind of person he is, because as Senator, he's been among the hardest working and sober of Senators.

On the other hand Moore has clearly been a whack-a-loon his entire public career, and the chasing-teens thing fits into his generally effed-up morality. Now someone is accusing him of some unwanted butt-grabbing after he was married.

If you need me to straighten out any other issues for you, just ask.

EricBurbank said:

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?



Eric


Klinker said:



EricBurbank said:

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?

Ummmm.... if you can't distinguish a difference in magnitude between a single unwanted kiss and multiple acts of pedophilia......well, I am worried about you.

What Franken did was wrong, no question but was it bad enough to remove him from elected office?  I think that should probably be left to the voters who put him there in the first place.

Of course, if the party affiliations were reversed I am sure that you would feel differently.  Me, I know people who's lives have been ruined by folks like Moore who prey on children.  I would oppose him no matter what letter he had after his name.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I am a dem, so party affiliation has nothing to do with my opinion.  In previous threads I have denounced Moore's actions even though they were just accusations at the time. (The year book signing was not out at the time) 

People on this board have different opinions based on party affiliations, I do not. If it is a dem doing a sleezy thing I will say something about it.  



drummerboy said:

yeah. the picture clearly shows that Franken is not touching her. It was a joke photo.

And in fact it doesn't show the kind of person he is, because as Senator, he's been among the hardest working and sober of Senators.

On the other hand Moore has clearly been a whack-a-loon his entire public career, and the chasing-teens thing fits into his generally effed-up morality. Now someone is accusing him of some unwanted butt-grabbing after he was married.


If you need me to straighten out any other issues for you, just ask.

EricBurbank said:

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?

Yes, can you please straighten me out on what is funny about a man "pretending" to grope a woman's (soldier no less) breast as she is sleeping.  What else did he "pretend" to grab as she was sleeping?  

If that was a "joke photo" then it does speak to what kind of person he is.  That he found that funny shows he has a sick sense of humor and does not respect women or maybe it is just women soldiers he doesn't respect. 


Klinker


EricBurbank said:

Yes, can you please straighten me out on what is funny about a man "pretending" to grope a woman's (soldier no less) breast as she is sleeping.  What else did he "pretend" to grab as she was sleeping?  

Can you please reassure me that you understand the difference between a man pretending to grope a woman's breast and a pedophile attacking a child?

Also, not that it really matters, the woman in question was a USO performer like Franken, not a soldier.


Mike


EricBurbank said:



Klinker said:



EricBurbank said:

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?

Ummmm.... if you can't distinguish a difference in magnitude between a single unwanted kiss and multiple acts of pedophilia......well, I am worried about you.

What Franken did was wrong, no question but was it bad enough to remove him from elected office?  I think that should probably be left to the voters who put him there in the first place.

Of course, if the party affiliations were reversed I am sure that you would feel differently.  Me, I know people who's lives have been ruined by folks like Moore who prey on children.  I would oppose him no matter what letter he had after his name.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I am a dem, so party affiliation has nothing to do with my opinion.  In previous threads I have denounced Moore's actions even though they were just accusations at the time. (The year book signing was not out at the time) 

People on this board have different opinions based on party affiliations, I do not. If it is a dem doing a sleezy thing I will say something about it.  






drummerboy said:

yeah. the picture clearly shows that Franken is not touching her. It was a joke photo.

And in fact it doesn't show the kind of person he is, because as Senator, he's been among the hardest working and sober of Senators.

On the other hand Moore has clearly been a whack-a-loon his entire public career, and the chasing-teens thing fits into his generally effed-up morality. Now someone is accusing him of some unwanted butt-grabbing after he was married.


If you need me to straighten out any other issues for you, just ask.

EricBurbank said:

You are kidding right?  You can't scream for Moore to step down based on allegations and then say that Franken should stay when there are pictures of him grabbing the woman's breasts while she is sleeping.  

Whether he was in office yet is irrelevant, it shows the kind of person he is.   What would make him think that was ok to do?

Yes, can you please straighten me out on what is funny about a man "pretending" to grope a woman's (soldier no less) breast as she is sleeping.  What else did he "pretend" to grab as she was sleeping?  

If that was a "joke photo" then it does speak to what kind of person he is.  That he found that funny shows he has a sick sense of humor and does not respect women or maybe it is just women soldiers he doesn't respect. 

OMFG.


Eric

I am quite aware of the difference.  However, that he would take a photo of doing something degrading to women and think it is funny is a problem.

And yes I know she was not a real soldier, my comment was referring to the fact that he showed no respect for the woman and the fact that she was dressed as a soldier would imply the lack of respect for women in the armed forces. 

Can you assure me that if Franken was a Republican he would get the same pass from you?



drummerboy

Some of us look at the entirety of what Mr. Franken has done in his life (as far as we know of him anyway).

Then we need to decide which is close to the "real"  Franken.

Is he defined by this stupid incident, or by the years of good works and positive contributions?

For some people it's hard to figure that out. For Franken, if you know anything about him, it's not hard.

Again, do the same thing with Moore. You should (I hope) come up with a quite different result.

If you don't, well, that's a problem.

You ask about a Republican - I'll tell you what. If Moore had just come out and said "You know, as a younger man I had a liking for younger women. Maybe in retrospect some of my behavior was a mistake. And I never did anything illegal. blah blah blah", I wouldn't be holding these past incidents against him very much. Because in the totality of who Moore is, it's kind of minor - but only because the horror of him is so great.

Instead, scum that he is, he tried to lie his way out of it. And he turned what could have been a small problem into a huge one that might actually blow what should have been a sure win.  Not only is he evil, he's stupid.

Anyway, there's a big difference between Moore and Franken, and none of it has to do with political party. It's obvious that one is a good honest man, and the other, not so much.

EricBurbank said:

I am quite aware of the difference.  However, that he would take a photo of doing something degrading to women and think it is funny is a problem.

And yes I know she was not a real soldier, my comment was referring to the fact that he showed no respect for the woman and the fact that she was dressed as a soldier would imply the lack of respect for women in the armed forces. 

Can you assure me that if Franken was a Republican he would get the same pass from you?



Klinker


EricBurbank said:

And yes I know she was not a real soldier, my comment was referring to the fact that he showed no respect for the woman and the fact that she was dressed as a soldier would imply the lack of respect for women in the armed forces. 

This just plain doesn't make any sense. 


Klinker

It seems to me that there it is a real problem if Americans can't tell the difference between an actual soldier, in or out of uniform, and a civilian wearing fatigues.


breal

The progress I perceive in this thread is that no one has yet tried to smear the gropee, for the offense of not shutting up. That is real progress. The rest, apart from Eric's comments: same sh*t different day.  


breal

Also: Thank you, Al Franken, for your USO work over several tours back before you were a senator, when you were just a comedian, and you didn't do it for PR reasons. Thank you for not being a big fake.  I don't think think you go for cheap laughs at women's expense any more.  I don't see what about this needs investigation.  And I really don't think your fellow senators are fit to investigate your ethics.  That part of this story is the real joke.  


yahooyahoo

Menendez would have appealed any guilty verdict and Christie never would have the chance to appoint a replacement.

Scully said:



Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Dems dodged a bullet on this one.

Actually the entire state dodged a bullet.  Imagine what piece of **** Christie would have appointed...



lord_pabulum

Based on the posts above, Klinker and drummerboy excuse unethical and inappropriate behavior when the perpetrators are democrats.  



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