LTC insurance - who do you have it with, who do you recommend?

truegrid

Mar 26, 2015 at 11:25am Edited

Long term care insurance - we have gotten quotes. One of us already has John Hancock through a special offer several years ago, seeking to put in place for another. John hancock passed through a substantial one time increase 2 years after I got it. Currently got quoted first with Genworth - extremely high. The Mutual of omaha, Transamerica, and john Hancock. Not significant differences across, all substantially less (by 50% or more) vs Genworth; checking if Mass Mutual offers LTC insurance as well. Beyond cost, the question is what is the experience with rate increases, and then how is it working with them if you actually needed to use it?

sac

Mar 26, 2015 at 1:51pm

We have Minnesota Life but we got it a few years ago, so not sure of the current situation. Are you working with an independent agent/broker? They should be able to gather quotes for you and help you figure out what is best.

Be sure to look at how the benefits are paid. Some are like medical insurance with claims and paperwork to get reimbursed and not all providers "qualify". Others pay out a per diem. The latter is probably better so that you aren't restricted in the providers you use and don't have to deal with all that paperwork, but at any rate, definitely something to consider.

Good luck!

knowlton

Mar 26, 2015 at 2:06pm

Anyone know about life insurance that can have money withdrawn from it to pay LTC bills?

jeffhandy

Mar 26, 2015 at 2:25pm Edited

Newer LTC policies have gone through the roof. One option that some life insurance companies are offering is a Whole Life/Longterm care policy. A certain percent of the DB can be used for qualified LTC benefits and that reduces the DB. It is slightly more than a Whole life policy or a stand alone LTC policy but if you don't use the LTC benefit you will have a DB to go to your chosen beneficiary. I know that two years ago NY Life had something like this and so did Mass Mutual. Both highly rated companies.

Abe_Froman

Mar 26, 2015 at 3:05pm Edited

Read up on them before diving in. They may make sense for a number of people whose assets aren't too high or too low and have a certain risk tolerance. But compared to other types of insurance, the payouts are very low, especially for men - meaning that actuarially speaking you will pay far more into it than you are likely to receive.

truegrid

Mar 26, 2015 at 4:49pm

@ Abe Froman Well aware you are paying in more - at best only 20% tap the benefit. If you tie in an inflation factor there is a benefit if stay in NJ. @jeffhandy thanks for you input, helpful! It does mean if you do something not so smart with assets, you are protected if LTC is required, to a degree. Both my parents fell into the need category; my better half family - father, mom and eldest sister have actually tapped it.
Love to hear more experience and POVs!

mumstheword

Mar 26, 2015 at 5:20pm

Mine is with UNUM, which I first got through my firm when I was working. Part of the deal is that I could continue it at the group rate after I retired, so I'm sticking with it.

jerseyjack

Mar 26, 2015 at 5:23pm Edited

You may be better off spending less money on an elder law attorney.

sac

Mar 26, 2015 at 6:32pm Edited

knowlton said:
Anyone know about life insurance that can have money withdrawn from it to pay LTC bills?

That's actually what we have from Minnesota Life - Life Insurance policies with LTC riders. We got them primarily for the LTC, but if we don't use all of that up, our beneficiaries will receive whatever is left as a normal death benefit.

On ours, we paid much less in than the death benefit, but that may be because we invested quite a bit upfront and a portion of the earnings each year are now paying the ongoing premiums.

joan_crystal

Mar 27, 2015 at 12:59am

We got ours through a group plan offered through my husband's employer. If your employer offers something similar, that might be worth looking into.

truegrid

Mar 27, 2015 at 2:17am

Apparently, sharecare plan was not an option when taken out; I will try calling John Hancock again, see if any options exist that does not result in a rewrite, requiring physical or new policy - originally group plan through employer, physical not required although did fill out a form. I will ask about life insurance with LTC riders, especially since NYL and Mass Mutual are on the list for either LTC or the life insurance piece. Not something any of those we are using to advise us have brought up. We are actually also looking at life insurance to cover a potential income gap after 65 for my better half should I pass early. on LTC, still interested if anyone has recently gone through process with Mutual of omaha, Transamerica or John Hancock. Or had to draw on a policy with anyone, what that experience was like?

mod

Mar 27, 2015 at 3:03am Edited

I got a policy with Mutual of Omaha last year. They had the most lenient weight charts and since I am overweight they were the best for me. Rate is in the middle of the pack and they had a lot of options to choose from. I used an agent that I got through my Alumni organization and a discount rate (supposedly). Check your Alumni group or professional groups for discounts. The agent was very good,

truegrid

Mar 27, 2015 at 3:41pm

Thanks @mod!

unicorn33

Mar 28, 2015 at 4:46am

LTC insurers have gotten hurt badly, having underestimated the hit they are taking. Best to talk to a reputable agent. We used Dave Saltzman, very knowledgeable, helpful, pleasant. (You can tell him Steve & Barbara recommended.) http://www.davesaltzmaninsurance.com/

boomie

Mar 28, 2015 at 4:47am

I have John Hancock.

Abe_Froman

Mar 28, 2015 at 5:07am

Many articles on LTC insurance have been written, but seemingly most are by companies who want to sell you LTC insurance. Kaiser wrote a piece that includes this quote:

Even advocates acknowledge that it isn’t for everyone. Jesse Slome, executive director of the American Association for Long-Term Care Insurance, an industry group, sums it up well: “Long-term care is a universal issue facing all Americans who are getting older. But long-term-care insurance is not a universal solution.”

Here's the full article:
http://kaiserhealthnews.org/news/calculating-a-long-term-care-policy/

And another I had bookmarked from US News:
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/managing-your-healthcare/healthcare/articles/2009/12/21/pros-and-cons-of-long-term-care-insurance

As I noted earlier, insurance companies collect much more on these policies than they pay out - it makes me suspect that some policies are not protecting buyers from risk in a cost-effective way. For me, I realize long-term care is a risk I need to address, but LTC insurance isn't the right solution.

Your mileage may vary.

truegrid

Mar 28, 2015 at 7:33am

Thanks, good to have range of perspectives and welcome the additional resources! Totally understand that LTC is not for everyone. Given we both have seen more than our fair share of use by family older than us, its just one piece of the mix. Understand the current estimate is 20% eventually need LTC of some type. However, none of our elder family members actually had anything in place, so tapped core assets to fund it, and one went to medicaid after running through all assets for LTC. Appreciate any additional experiences.

unicorn33

Mar 28, 2015 at 7:40am

My Dad had no LTC insurance. His life ended in a nursing home, with few assets left. We'd much prefer to end our days at home, so we bought LTC. Added benefit: Takes some burden (both financial and emotional) off our kids and ensures there will be some assets left for them.

boomie

Mar 29, 2015 at 9:32am

I only have it because I get it for $10 a month through my employer.

unicorn33

Mar 29, 2015 at 10:14am

boomie said:
I only have it because I get it for $10 a month through my employer.

What happens when you leave the employer?

georgieboy

Mar 29, 2015 at 10:21am

We've had it for a number of years through a group plan before the missus retired. It is with Met Life who I believe got out of the LTC business as regards new policies though they still service the old ones.Mom is currently coming up on the end of the 2nd year of 5 yrs and has been using it for live in aides. It pays 100 per day which is a little less than 50% of costs.That still leaves quite a chunk to pay out of pocket but is better than nothing.

truegrid

Mar 29, 2015 at 12:52pm

@boomie that is an amazing deal...I got it through employer group plan as well, although not as cheap @geogieboy, thanks, assume you kept it and they are still following through on obligations? That was one of my questions/understanding should they stop offering new plans.

georgieboy

Mar 29, 2015 at 1:50pm

Oh yeah. After retirement it became a quarterly bill.Every year we get the inflation rider which allows us to pay a higher premium to receive a higher daily benefit amt.

boomie

Mar 29, 2015 at 1:53pm

unicorn33 said:
boomie said:
I only have it because I get it for $10 a month through my employer.

What happens when you leave the employer?

Pretty sure it will be a similar quarterly payment.

unicorn33

Mar 29, 2015 at 3:01pm

That would be an amazing bargain!

yahooyahoo

Mar 29, 2015 at 3:09pm

My employer offered it but the premiums were extremely high and the payout period was limited (36 months?). Buyer beware.

unicorn33

Mar 29, 2015 at 4:14pm

Good policies are indeed quite expensive and not getting any cheaper, that's for sure. They also are increasingly costly if the buyer waits to purchase at an older age. Policy coverage can also be pretty confusing, which is why dealing with a reputable agent can be helpful. There are also various informative articles available and well worth reading before purchasing LTC.

truegrid

Apr 20, 2015 at 3:17am

Update for anyone else interested - given name of Richard Brief, 908-647-6101 as highly qualified expert regarding LTC policies (best/most knowledgable in state was comment). Previously worked for one or 3 of the major companies. Now works for clients identifying best policy for clients. We are pretty far along on working with someone. However, I had someone overhear the issues I mentioned with John Hancock (I called to see if I could modify/increase my policy; told I had to wait till sept 2016 for the offers, doing right now, a major increase) - and they came over and provided this information. Sharing in case others are seeking to get LTC, worth a call. In Warren

georgieboy

Apr 20, 2015 at 3:46am

Waiting now for forms to increase our benefit to 5 years from the 3 years it is currently. Increase is not bad, the killer is the inflation adjustments if you choose to go that route.With Met Life, you need to agree to the adjustment,which is offered every 3 years, at least once within 6 years or you lose the opportunity to be offered it after that.

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