Lamb - Saccone Woo Hoo, Did the Dems actually do this?
Do you folks ever go to sleep?! I thought I was obsessive about Election Returns but after seeing Saccone's sad face telling his supporters that they could go home and seeing Lamb ahead by 500+ and Kornacki do the projection on the possible absentee ballot results given Trump's vote in 2016 and the fall off I went to sleep at about 11:45PM.
And Kornacki was on the money.
Some Republicans are complaining about Saccone's pornstache - evidently a mustache that makes you look like a lecher. Who knew?
Victory has many fathers. Defeat is an orphan.
They will make any excuse.
peaceinourtime said:
Saccone's forces are demanding a recount.
I missed that. All the coverage seems to be about the Walkout, a bit on Kudlow. No need to worry though right?
LOST said:
Do you folks ever go to sleep?! I thought I was obsessive about Election Returns but after seeing Saccone's sad face telling his supporters that they could go home and seeing Lamb ahead by 500+ and Kornacki do the projection on the possible absentee ballot results given Trump's vote in 2016 and the fall off I went to sleep at about 11:45PM.
And Kornacki was on the money.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/13/us/elections/results-pennsylvania-house-special-election.html
There was a line I loved in California Suite delivered by Jane Fonda. "With Nixon in the White House, good health seemed to be in poor taste", maybe it can be applied to Trump and sleeping.
Morganna said:
peaceinourtime said:
Saccone's forces are demanding a recount.
I missed that. All the coverage seems to be about the Walkout, a bit on Kudlow. No need to worry though right?
Not surprising that they would ask for a recount. I think they would have to pay the costs though. Does anyone know?
Paul Ryan is already trying to downplay the loss, saying both candidates ran as Conservatives. But the way I see it I doubt Lamb would vote for Ryan for Speaker if the Democrats take a slim margin in the House in November. I know that the Pennsylvania districts are going to be realigned and it looks like Conor Lamb lives in what will be the new 17th district He'll be running against a Republican incumbent but the new district appears to be extremely competitive and if his victory stands up, he gets to spend the next few months establishing a record as a Conservative Democrat which should appeal in his new district.
it's a symptom of our broken punditry that Conor Lamb is being portrayed as a conservative. Yes, he's against an assault weapons ban. But he's pro-choice (he says he's personally opposed to abortion). And he's very pro-union, and strongly in favor of protecting Medicare and Social Security. He's as progressive as most Democrats.
ml1 said:
it's a symptom of our broken punditry that Conor Lamb is being portrayed as a conservative. Yes, he's against an assault weapons ban. But he's pro-choice (he says he's personally opposed to abortion). And he's very pro-union, and strongly in favor of protecting Medicare and Social Security. He's as progressive as most Democrats.
Fair enough, I'm overgeneralizing I suppose. I was speaking more to how Paul Ryan is trying to spin this, but I'm falling into the same trap.
At any rate, he seems to have the right stuff to appeal to the voters in that part of the country. If he can go to DC and establish himself as living up to his campaign promises he may still be there next January.
It was a quick announcement on MSNBC, that his "lawyers" are asking for a recount. It won't succeed, so we won't hear to much about it.
Morganna said:
peaceinourtime said:
Saccone's forces are demanding a recount.
I missed that. All the coverage seems to be about the Walkout, a bit on Kudlow. No need to worry though right?
But that such a meme is out there at all is because pundits have only done a superficial skim of Conor Lamb's positions and labeled him a conservative.
mrincredible said:
ml1 said:
it's a symptom of our broken punditry that Conor Lamb is being portrayed as a conservative. Yes, he's against an assault weapons ban. But he's pro-choice (he says he's personally opposed to abortion). And he's very pro-union, and strongly in favor of protecting Medicare and Social Security. He's as progressive as most Democrats.
Fair enough, I'm overgeneralizing I suppose. I was speaking more to how Paul Ryan is trying to spin this, but I'm falling into the same trap.
At any rate, he seems to have the right stuff to appeal to the voters in that part of the country. If he can go to DC and establish himself as living up to his campaign promises he may still be there next January.
bub said:
Agree that a sane, not self absorbed Trump - in other words, not the guy who's in the White House - could have won this election.
Indeed. It seems one kiss of death for a GOP candidate is a Trump stump speech. Here are clips of Trump's rambling, demonic, night-on-bald-mountain speech, allegedly on behalf of Saccone. From Seth Meyer's "A Closer Look:" 
I'll take a whole passel of reddish Democrats over blueish Republicans any day. This slavish party loyalty to Trump by Republicans is crippling common sense legislating.
ml1 said:
it's a symptom of our broken punditry that Conor Lamb is being portrayed as a conservative. Yes, he's against an assault weapons ban. But he's pro-choice (he says he's personally opposed to abortion). And he's very pro-union, and strongly in favor of protecting Medicare and Social Security. He's as progressive as most Democrats.
To repeat:
LOST said:
Victory has many fathers. Defeat is an orphan.
They will make any excuse.
Baldwin said:
No tweet yet?!?!
He is taking credit for both Saccone coming close and Lamb winning!
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/trump-on-the-lamb/555668/
“We had an interesting time because we lifted [Saccone] seven points up. That’s a lot,” Trump said. “And I was up 22 points, and we lifted seven, and seven normally would be enough, but we’ll see how it all comes out. It’s, like, virtually a tie.” (It was not exactly clear what Trump was basing his conclusion of a seven-point boost on.)
There is some number of Trump supporters who would gouge out their own eyes if he raped a child in front of them rather than admit that their Führer is just a con-artist - maybe 30-35%. For the rest, I believe his shtick is wearing thing. If the Democrats campaign sensibly (see Conor Lamb), they will do well this Fall.
To the earlier point about how Lamb is being inaccurately portrayed as a conservative, I heard an interview with a woman from the RNC on Morning Edition today who was taking that exact position. And she mentioned the two specific things that have come up before: Lamb's opposition to gun control and his personal objections to abortion. She also claimed that he said he would oppose Nancy Pelosi as speaker.
As the interview continued it became apparent to me that her assumption is that the only way Democrats can win in the fall is by running conservatives as Democrats. And she stated that the Democratic party is in the process of tearing itself apart from within because of the feud between Bernie supporters and Hilary supporters. She denied a similar schism in the Republican party between the Trumpists and the more traditional GOPers.
If the RNC strategy is "don't worry the Democrats are tearing themselves apart", I have a pretty good feeling about the November elections. Especially with the key GOP incumbents who are choosing to retire and some strong Democrat candidates surfacing. I'll admit the Democrats need to build some more unity before 2020 if they want to take back the White House, but this woman seemed to have her head in the sand. Rather than admitting her own party is facing some significant challenges she was openly disdainful and dismissive of the approaching blue wave. (Yes, I think there's a blue wave coming but I'm not sure how big it will be ... lots of territory to cover before then).
She also characterized Lamb as having to "contort" himself to win in PA18, and that he'll just go be a liberal lemming in Washington. And that he'll have to recontort himself to win in the new district in November. She sounded more like a Fox news pundit than a rational RNC strategist.
All politics are local. So, a person running as a Democrat is Western Pennsylvania is going to need a different set of messages than a Democrat running in Essex County.
but the core messages are going to be the same for Democrats anywhere. It's not as though someone is going to win an election as a Democrat by sounding like an evangelical Christian on social issues, or pushing trickle-down economics.
concern trolling
mrincredible said:
To the earlier point about how Lamb is being inaccurately portrayed as a conservative, I heard an interview with a woman from the RNC on Morning Edition today who was taking that exact position. And she mentioned the two specific things that have come up before: Lamb's opposition to gun control and his personal objections to abortion. She also claimed that he said he would oppose Nancy Pelosi as speaker.
As the interview continued it became apparent to me that her assumption is that the only way Democrats can win in the fall is by running conservatives as Democrats. And she stated that the Democratic party is in the process of tearing itself apart from within because of the feud between Bernie supporters and Hilary supporters. She denied a similar schism in the Republican party between the Trumpists and the more traditional GOPers.
If the RNC strategy is "don't worry the Democrats are tearing themselves apart", I have a pretty good feeling about the November elections. Especially with the key GOP incumbents who are choosing to retire and some strong Democrat candidates surfacing. I'll admit the Democrats need to build some more unity before 2020 if they want to take back the White House, but this woman seemed to have her head in the sand. Rather than admitting her own party is facing some significant challenges she was openly disdainful and dismissive of the approaching blue wave. (Yes, I think there's a blue wave coming but I'm not sure how big it will be ... lots of territory to cover before then).
She also characterized Lamb as having to "contort" himself to win in PA18, and that he'll just go be a liberal lemming in Washington. And that he'll have to recontort himself to win in the new district in November. She sounded more like a Fox news pundit than a rational RNC strategist.
Are there any important special elections coming up? Or do we have to wait until November now?
I think the Putin race in Russia is the next Trump-related election.
kthnry said:
Are there any important special elections coming up? Or do we have to wait until November now?
ml1 said:
but the core messages are going to be the same for Democrats anywhere. It's not as though someone is going to win an election as a Democrat by sounding like an evangelical Christian on social issues, or pushing trickle-down economics.
I suppose. However, a Democrat campaigning in a mostly white, mostly rural district isn't going to campaign on BLM or LGBTQ rights because those are less likely to be a priority for the voters. It doesn't mean they are opposed, it just means it is less of an issue for them than it is for people in, say, Maplewood. And this same Democrat would campaign for reasonable gun control whereas in Maplewood, you could campaign on repealing the 2nd Amendment.
And Republican Leonard Lance is not going to campaign for re-election in NJ-7 by opposing all gun control or supporting heavy restrictions on abortion.
LOST said:
And Republican Leonard Lance is not going to campaign for re-election in NJ-7 by opposing all gun control or supporting heavy restrictions on abortion.
True. Still, as a Democrat, I prefer reddish Dems over blueish Pugs because party loyalty too often overrides constituent preferences.
tjohn said:
LOST said:
And Republican Leonard Lance is not going to campaign for re-election in NJ-7 by opposing all gun control or supporting heavy restrictions on abortion.
True. Still, as a Democrat, I prefer reddish Dems over blueish Pugs because party loyalty too often overrides constituent preferences.
Lance is not really “bluish”. For years he has advocated defunding planned parenthood , originally voted in Committee to repeal Obamacare and has said he is in favor of allowing out of state visitors to abide by their own states gun laws (allow conceal carry). He also does not believe that Trump should release his taxes.
Once thousands of his constituents started showing up at his town hall meetings and protesting daily outside his Westfield office, he has tried to moderate some of this by, for example, not voting for the tax plan and offshore drilling.
The end result is that he appears to be roundly despised by everyone out here. the Trumpers who think he is being weak, and the large majority of moderates who think he is being allowed to vote certain ways by Paul Ryan in order to keep his seat.
Hillary won this district, I would be very surprised if it didn’t flip in Nov
I have a feeling that abortion is going to continue to be a major issue. There will probably continue to be a push to ban 20 weeks. Lamb carefully states that he doesn't believe in abortion but respects the law. I've heard this from many politicians, particularly Catholics.
Many voted for Trump just to add conservative judges, mainly because of this issue. And he has added many. And has many vacancies to fill.
I believe it was Peggy Noonan who wrote something about the left having to move on this issue and the right on gun control.
Advancements in science have changed the positions of many voters. I heard many attacks on Obama and Clinton on their positions. Dems who want to flip states may have to look at this.
I received an email from campaigning Lisa McCormick so I went to her page to read her positions. She has published a piece called Abortion is Good. While it defends a woman's right to chose, I couldn't believe how jarring the title was. That doesn't seem like a slogan you want, particularly not on a baseball cap.
It's a politically foolish title even if all of her article points are defensible. I'd say the vast majority of people I know are pro-choice but I can't recall anyone expressing fondness for abortion.
She has published a piece called Abortion is Good. While it defends a woman's right to chose, I couldn't believe how jarring the title was. That doesn't seem like a slogan you want, particularly not on a baseball cap.
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Agree that a sane, not self absorbed Trump - in other words, not the guy who's in the White House - could have won this election.