Johns Hopkins CTY Summer programs: Should we do it? archived

One of my kids has just been selected to participate in the Johns Hopkins Center for Talent Youth (CTY) summer program. It’s all based on test scores. Other than the cost to participate in the summer programs and our family being broke, my main concern is whether the summer programming would just feel like more school, which may make it a tough sell for our kid. Then again, we're new here and would welcome the opportunity for our child to make friends who like him, seem to have excess brainpower. Thoughts?

Daughter went last year. She didn't want to come home. We couldn't afford it, but did it anyway. Wish we could send her again this year. If we could, she would do it in a heartbeat, every summer. It is academic, but so much more. It gave her a new perspective on what learning and connecting with other students in the process can be.

My husband did it and still is in touch with friends he made those summers. A very important and positive experience socially as well as intellectually.

If you can afford it and the program sounds good to you and your kid then I say go for it. Also, if you truly can't afford it, then they do have scholarships. My kid did a CTY language immersion camp and enjoyed it very much.

That being said, there are many kids who do the testing just to see how well they do and to get the chance for early practice at the tests in a no-risk situation, but never attend any of the programs.

By the way, my kid reported that she was an "anomaly" at her program. Most of the paying kids attended elite private schools, many of them boarding schools. Most of the scholarship kids were from poor, inner-city public schools. Most of the kids in both groups were very surprised to hear my kid's description of CHS. Those kids (in both groups) truly did not realize that there is such a thing as a "good" public high school. So my WASP kid was the "diversity element" in her particular program.

I could definitely be wrong, but I think that although they keep sending mailings and emails home, many programs have been full since the day after they opened for registration (back in January or so).

Our child did a program in Latin one summer--seven hours a day for three weeks. I asked before she went "Are you sure you want to do that? It doesn't sound like a lot of fun?". After she came home I asked about the people at the camp. She said there were two kinds: (1) those whose parents made them go; and (2) those whose parents said it didn't sound like very much fun. She loved it--as a kid she always felt a little bit like she didn't belong socially--at the camp she fit right in with everyone else, and it gave her confidence that she was really good at something. It was stimulating and confidence building and at a crucial age in middle school. If you can afford it, I definitely think it's worth going and I was the skeptic.

My kid went last year and really benefited from it. The program he went to (at Dickinson College) was reasonably diverse in terms of race, income, and gender (though nothing like CHS). There were private school kids but certainly not a preponderance. The program works hard at balancing the academics with social and recreational in a way I thought was particularly sensitive to the needs of the kids.

The OP mentioned being new here and wanting to provide the opportunity to make friends. I would note that, although kids from here go to the program every year, the greater likelihood would be that they would make friends based on who they are bunked with and in class with, and that those friends would not be local. That said, with Facebook, everyone is local. They stay in touch.

There are still some very interesting classes open at both the Dickinson and Franklin and Marshall campuses. Here's the open course list for this week (** means there is a prerequisite):
Dickinson College, CARLISLE, PA - Session 1 - June 24-July 13,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Creative Nonfiction
Ethics
Fiction and Poetry
International Politics
Philosophy of Mind
Russian-Soviet History

Dickinson College, CARLISLE, PA - Session 2 - July 15-August 3,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Critical Essay: Film**
Cryptology
Electrical Engineering**
Ethics
Existentialism
Fast-Paced High School Physics**
Fiction and Poetry
Genetics**
International Politics
Macroeconomics and the Global Economy**

Franklin and Marshall College, LANCASTER, PA - Session 1 - June 24-July 13,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Advanced Cryptology**
Fast-Paced High School Physics**
The Critical Essay: Popular Culture**

Franklin and Marshall College, LANCASTER, PA - Session 2 - July 15-August 3,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Advanced Cryptology**
Creative Nonfiction
Fiction and Poetry
Logic: Principles of Reasoning
Mathematical Logic**
Philosophy of Mind
Probability and Game Theory**
The Critical Essay: Popular Culture**
The History of Disease**
Utopias and Dystopias**

Hong Kong Univ. of Sci. and Tech., HONG KONG, - Session 2 - July 8-July 27,2012 - No Beds Available
Fast-Paced High School Physics**
Fundamentals of Computer Science**
Introduction to the Biomedical Sciences

Loyola Marymount University, LOS ANGELES, CA - Session 1 - June 24-July 13,2012 - Boy Beds Available Only
Creative Nonfiction
Cryptology
International Politics
Latin I
Law and Politics in US History
Paleobiology
Philosophy of Mind
The Critical Essay: Popular Culture**

Loyola Marymount University, LOS ANGELES, CA - Session 2 - July 15-August 3,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Creative Nonfiction
Fast-Paced High School Physics**
International Politics
Latin I
Philosophy of Mind

Seattle University, SEATTLE, WA - Session 1 - June 24-July 13,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Creative Nonfiction
Cryptology
Fast-Paced High School Biology
Fast-Paced High School Chemistry**
International Politics
Introduction to the Biomedical Sciences
Logic: Principles of Reasoning

Seattle University, SEATTLE, WA - Session 2 - July 15-August 3,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Cryptology
Fast-Paced High School Chemistry**
Fundamentals of Computer Science**
Introduction to the Biomedical Sciences
Logic: Principles of Reasoning

Skidmore College, SARATOGA SPRINGS, NY - Session 1 - June 24-July 13,2012 - Girl Beds Available Only
Advanced Fiction**
Creative Nonfiction
Logic: Principles of Reasoning

Skidmore College, SARATOGA SPRINGS, NY - Session 2 - July 15-August 3,2012 - Girl Beds Available Only
Creative Nonfiction
Fast-Paced High School Physics**
Logic: Principles of Reasoning
Philosophy of Mind

The Johns Hopkins University, BALTIMORE, MD - Session 1 - June 24-July 13,2012 - Boy and Girl Beds Available
Astrophysics**
The Critical Essay: Literature and the Arts**

Can't speak to the camps as we found them too pricey for our pocketbook but we have done many of the one day programs and find them to be really high caliber terrific days. Daughter did a math at Johns Hopkins 5 years ago that was fabulous. What it does for their self esteem and how they value learning cannot be overstated. Son has done Lincoln Center, Metropolitan Museum, DC Building Museum and others and enjoyed them all. My nephew has taken several on line courses to enhance the math available a his school Going to MIT in September.
Oh and principal at daughter's school highly recommends the programs and classes as well.

My son is going this year. He begged to go after hearing about it/seeing the catalog in past years, and he saved some of the money (very small amt, but still). He is taking a math logic class, which would be torture to me, a real punishment. I just signed up last week after months of negotiation with him, wondering if he really wants to go. But, you know what, he loves numbers and wants to immerse himself in this -- why should my aversion to math stand in his way?

I agree it's expensive, but it's his only activity this summer. And I think he'll grow up a bit too, away from home.

dcoltbolt11 said:

...as a kid she always felt a little bit like she didn't belong socially--at the camp she fit right in with everyone else, and it gave her confidence that she was really good at something. It was stimulating and confidence building and at a crucial age in middle school.

This says it all.

onceinawhile said:

What it does for their self esteem and how they value learning cannot be overstated.

And this too.

hamandeggs said:

And I think he'll grow up a bit too, away from home.

hamandeggs, he'll have a wonderful time, and come home with a new perspective. I am happy for him (and you!).

My 13 year old went last year for Fiction and Poetry at Franklin and Marshall College, she loved it and talked about it all year long. We were impressed with the academics and the overall management of the program.

When she came home she told us she knew it was expensive but if need be she would find a way to pay for it if we couldn't swing it on our own. She is going back this year to study Utopias and Distopias again at F&M. It is a chunk of change but for her it was worth it - really stimulated her interest in writing and literature.

sac said:

Most of the paying kids attended elite private schools, many of them boarding schools. Most of the scholarship kids were from poor, inner-city public schools.

Not certain whether this is true, but, it may well be. We chose creative non-fiction writing last summer, because we have had good experiences in our school district in math, but I feel language arts/writing is weak. After the 3 weeks, when you pick up your child, you get to meet with the faculty member for a conference. The first thing he said to me was that he guessed that my daughter was a public school student. He told me her writing was exceptionally strong, but that he felt not as developed as it could be. He explained that he (and his TA - yes two instructors for about 10 kids) took time to really evaluate her work and challenge her ideas, and that it was uncomfortable at first for her, but that she began to more actively participate and was very happy with her work by the end. She confirmed this by bragging to me about her writing samples. It is a great opportunity.

kareno said:

sac said:

Most of the paying kids attended elite private schools, many of them boarding schools. Most of the scholarship kids were from poor, inner-city public schools.

Not certain whether this is true, but, it may well be.

Want to say again that this has not be my child's experience.

do you need to take a test to qualify for the day long programs?

Yes. Read more here:

http://cty.jhu.edu/talent/index.html

max_weisenfeld said:

kareno said:

sac said:

Most of the paying kids attended elite private schools, many of them boarding schools. Most of the scholarship kids were from poor, inner-city public schools.

Not certain whether this is true, but, it may well be.

Want to say again that this has not be my child's experience.

Nor has it been mine.

Not what I've seen either -- the opposite, in fact, where parents have said they're paying for this program and other enrichment to enhance public school INSTEAD of opting for private school tuition. Especially in this economy, that reasoning makes a lot of sense to me.

ETA: I'm not disputing the other experiences, just thinking that maybe the economy has changed those dynamics a bit.

Another note about the price: it is quite comparable to the price of any 3 week sleep-away camp. As an example, the camp I worked at, which is a non-profit, fairly rustic, and on the lower-middle range price wise, costs over $4,000 for a three-week session if you are paying full price. Like CTY, there are discounts and scholarships ("camperships") available. That is not to say it is not a lot of money, just that it is what these things cost.

I attended CTY at Skidmore for three summers in the late '80s and I can tell you it was one of the best experiences of my life. It's great to hear that kids are still enjoying it as much as I did. I will gladly send my kids to CTY if they qualify and want to go. There was an essay by Meghan O'Rourke in Slate about CTY a few years ago. I'll link it here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/summer_camp/2006/07/my_summers_at_nerd_camp.html

max_weisenfeld said:

Another note about the price: it is quite comparable to the price of any 3 week sleep-away camp. As an example, the camp I worked at, which is a non-profit, fairly rustic, and on the lower-middle range price wise, costs over $4,000 for a three-week session if you are paying full price. Like CTY, there are discounts and scholarships ("camperships") available. That is not to say it is not a lot of money, just that it is what these things cost.

Not compared to Girl Scout camp, which runs $450-650 per week! May be considering CTY next year, but it is definitely at a higher price point than the other sleep away options we use, and might mean no summer camp for the rest of the summer, so would require trade-offs.

My child attended a language immersion program, which is not typical CTY so the comment about the schools of the other kids only applies to that program. And, it was a Mandarin program. Many of the kids (other than the scholarship kids) were either Chinese adoptees of anglo parents OR Chinese-American kids whose native Chinese Parents wanted them to know the language. Both groups are likely to be higher income and highly education motivated for their kids, which may explain why there were so many private school kids in that program.

I did not mean to imply that all CTY programs were like that.

Thanks for all your comments! I think we're going to table CTY for a few years. My kid's only 10. Reading your comments, I think he'll get more out of it (and appreciate more what it has to offer) when he's a teen. And we can start saving now! I'm getting my teaching license soon so perhaps I can trade my services for my kid's camping tuition.
Hey SAC: which language immersion program did your child attend and for how long?

I would heartily recommend the location of the Skidmore program, having lived in the area. Saratoga's glorious in the summer. Families of kids in the program should consider renting a place and taking advantage of the many summer activities. It's actually quite cheap and reasonable before track season (late August-Labor Day).

SqueezeboxMama said:

Hey SAC: which language immersion program did your child attend and for how long?

She did the Mandarin immersion program that was a joint CTY-Middlebury Monterrey Language Institute program in the summer of 2010. It was a 4-week program which was targeted to grades 7-10 I believe. She was entering 10th grade at the time and was one of the oldest participants, but also was a complete beginner at the language. She learned an AMAZING amount and, despite our failure to get her into any good followup, she has retained quite a bit and hopes to study it again in college. Sadly, CTY and MMLI parted ways and that program is not offered any more. I don't know if CTY has put in any other language immersion programs since then or not. As far as I know MMLI still offers language immersion programs, just not in partnership with CTY. My daughter really enjoyed it but said that she wouldn't want to do it again, even if she hadn't "aged out", because they did not give the students as much freedom as programs for older students usually do. (They had to have an adult with them to go anywhere on campus outside of their dorm, for example.)

This past summer she did an Art precollege program in Boston at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts where she was one of the younger participants and she LOVED that even more, probably as much due to the freedom as the content. (She loves languages AND art, among other things.) In that program (not CTY), the students had to sign in and out, although they could not sign out without a "buddy" and a declared destination, but they got to explore all over Boston during the five weeks. As a result, Boston is high on her list of college locations!

I think that these kinds of summer programs, at least for high schoolers, are at least as valuable for their role as a "super college visit" as they are for the actual content of the programs. Daughter returned home from the Boston program with a fattened portfolio but also a huge amount of information and perspective on various colleges and degree programs that she gleaned from the faculty, college/grad student RA/TAs (who were from many different schools) as well as fellow students in the program, many of whom were a year older and well into the college search process at that point.