Jefferson and Maplewood Avenue

galileo said:

Jaytee - Just to make you  aware someone was killed at that intersection. I can remember when it happened. Her name was Vivian Battzle(sp?) and she was driving her car. She was a realtor who had her own company in that little building on Glen and Ridgewood,followed by Chris Danzi. Of course it was very upsetting at the time.

You’re correct, I had forgotten about that. 
How can the police stop people from speeding? They speed down Ridgewood to Jefferson and continue to speed downhill. People disregard flashing lights. Maybe put rumble strips about 50 feet approaching on all four sides of the intersection. Speed bumps will just send the idiots flying further down hill.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Speed Bumps before and after the crest of the hill?

Emergency route.


What is not said here is that accidents have dropped off big time in recent years.  I remember when it was almost monthly.  The reason IMO is that a hedge on one of the property owner's yard was taken down, thereby making a much-improved sightline for oncoming cross traffic.  Speed is one problem, but the most probable cause of any recent accidents is driver inattention to existing signage.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Speed Bumps before and after the crest of the hill?

I like it. Speed bumps before and after the crest of the hill, in both directions, would also help rectify the danger presented by the absence of a crosswalk linking Woodland to Walton.


Woodland to Walton - pedestrian route.


Speed bumps on Jeff... I believe it is Harrison Ave in Orange that has speed bumps. It looks like they are spaced every 150 ft. along with speed limit of 15 mph.

Speed bumps, along with 4 way stop.

Limiting corrective mesures to painting stripes on the road is useless.


Speed humps have been shot down before for a few reasons.  This is a really tough issue, obviously, and one that has been reviewed many times by engineers.


Every common solution is deemed unreasonable. The f...ing street is deadly. The solution is stripes on the road and a couple'a new signs? What are the new signs gonna say? 

It is time to do something that is unreasonable.

South Orange parks unoccupied cars on Irvington Ave. Make it 15mph. Then park one on Jeff before the hill. 

Local people know this road is dangerous. Aliens would be deterred by the cop car.


They want Jefferson to be an emergency route, so speed bumps aren’t allowed on emergency routes. If my solution of one way going uphill is not practical I wish someone could explain why a fire truck leaving the fire house would be hampered by it being a one way, away from the fire house. Ambulances the same. 
Also rumble strips that will surely cause someone to slow down is doable. It’s obvious now that the flashing lights and signs and paint will not stop the madness. 
Speed cameras? Or that’s too invasive? I’m thinking the people living at that intersection are afraid to even let their kids play in the front yard, it’s tiresome to keep talking and not doing anything. 


Personally I think most of the traffic issues in our towns are actually caused by the locals, despite what we claim.  I'd love to see a good solution there.  I'm not sure what it is.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Speed bumps on Jeff... I believe it is Harrison Ave in Orange that has speed bumps. It looks like they are spaced every 150 ft. along with speed limit of 15 mph.

It’s south center street that has the speed bumps. They work well on that stretch of road, but Jefferson is a sloped road, cars would become airborne easily which might be even worse. 


Jaytee said:

If my solution of one way going uphill is not practical I wish someone could explain why a fire truck leaving the fire house would be hampered by it being a one way, away from the fire house. Ambulances the same. 


With the recent merger, the responding fire house could be in SO.  Mutual aide units responding to an emergency could come from anywhere.  Then there is the issue of police vehicles responding to an emergency. They have to get where they are going quickly and driving the wrong way on a busy one way street would not be an option.  

To Jack's point, according to information I received yesterday, the Engineer's Office is considering 15 mph speed limit on the portion of Jefferson closest to the intersection with Maplewood Avenue.  To points made my other posters, none of this will do any good if drivers continue to speed and ignore traffic lights, signs, and markings. What ever is decided, enforcement has to be part of the solution.


Joan, I remember a police car was involved in an accident at that intersection some years back. 
I don’t know what the answer is, because I hardly see cops anywhere. Enforcement? How? Speed cameras?


Speed cameras are illegal in NJ, so count that out. The only option is to re-grade that hill. Get diggers, flatten that curve in the road so everyone at that intersection can see what's coming, put guard rails on the now-elevated sidewalks, and then implement an all way stop. It's going to cost a lot of money we don't have so it's never going to happen, but that's the only way to permanently solve this problem.


ridski said:

Speed cameras are illegal in NJ, so count that out. The only option is to re-grade that hill. Get diggers, flatten that curve in the road so everyone at that intersection can see what's coming, put guard rails on the now-elevated sidewalks, and then implement an all way stop. It's going to cost a lot of money we don't have so it's never going to happen, but that's the only way to permanently solve this problem.

yup. the problem is the upward curve. remove the problem.

I wonder how expensive it would be? there must be some spare infrastructure money floating around.


One of the problems is that the intersection isn't inherently dangerous - I don't think any of the accidents are caused by drivers on Maplewood Avenue being blindsided by, or unable to see, that cars are approaching along Jefferson.

If they come to the full stop, that is.

Maybe the solution is to eliminate the (ability? temptation?) to drive straight across Jefferson and continue on Maplewood Avenue.  Make one part of Maplewood Avenue one-way - the stretch from Parker to Jefferson. Traveling from the village, drivers will see "DO NOT ENTER", and will have to stop.  Put serious traffic-calming on the stretch from Parker to Jefferson, to lower the speed from that direction.  

You might have to "one-way" Dunnell Road going the other way, parallel to the one-way portion of Maplewood Avenue.

[Edited to add very rough diagram of what I'm describing]


nohero said:

One of the problems is that the intersection isn't inherently dangerous - I don't think any of the accidents are caused by drivers on Maplewood Avenue being blindsided by, or unable to see, that cars are approaching along Jefferson.

If they come to the full stop, that is.

Maybe the solution is to eliminate the (ability? temptation?) to drive straight across Jefferson and continue on Maplewood Avenue.  Make one part of Maplewood Avenue one-way - the stretch from Parker to Jefferson. Traveling from the village, drivers will see "DO NOT ENTER", and will have to stop.  Put serious traffic-calming on the stretch from Parker to Jefferson, to lower the speed from that direction.  

You might have to "one-way" Dunnell Road going the other way, parallel to the one-way portion of Maplewood Avenue.

[Edited to add very rough diagram of what I'm describing]

One issue I see is that section of Dunnell is narrow and probably not designed well to handle high volume trafffic.


yahooyahoo said:

nohero said:

One of the problems is that the intersection isn't inherently dangerous - I don't think any of the accidents are caused by drivers on Maplewood Avenue being blindsided by, or unable to see, that cars are approaching along Jefferson.

If they come to the full stop, that is.

Maybe the solution is to eliminate the (ability? temptation?) to drive straight across Jefferson and continue on Maplewood Avenue.  Make one part of Maplewood Avenue one-way - the stretch from Parker to Jefferson. Traveling from the village, drivers will see "DO NOT ENTER", and will have to stop.  Put serious traffic-calming on the stretch from Parker to Jefferson, to lower the speed from that direction.  

You might have to "one-way" Dunnell Road going the other way, parallel to the one-way portion of Maplewood Avenue.

[Edited to add very rough diagram of what I'm describing]

One issue I see is that section of Dunnell is narrow and probably not designed well to handle high volume trafffic.

It could be a lower speed limit, to encourage use of other alternatives (Valley to Parker, turn left, instead of going up Jefferson and then turning right onto Dunnell and then left onto Parker).

[Edited to add] Also, one-way single file wouldn't be as much of a problem, than if Dunnell was still two-way.

[Edited again to add] Any slight widening or other modifications to Dunnell would still be a lot less expensive than the Ridski Regrade (tm).


Dunnell floods after big rains.


nohero - not following it too much.  basically - people coming from the village would end up making a left on jefferson and right on Walton to continue on Maplewood Avenue to south orange.


jamie said:

nohero - not following it too much.  basically - people coming from the village would end up making a left on jefferson and right on Walton to continue on Maplewood Avenue to south orange.

That, also.  I was just thinking about options other than going straight through Jefferson, when seems to keep people from stopping at Jefferson to give the cars on Jefferson the right of way.


Getting back to the original picture of the accident,what was the cause? How many cars were involved? Was anyone hurt?


ridski said:

Speed cameras are illegal in NJ, so count that out. The only option is to re-grade that hill. Get diggers, flatten that curve in the road so everyone at that intersection can see what's coming, put guard rails on the now-elevated sidewalks, and then implement an all way stop. It's going to cost a lot of money we don't have so it's never going to happen, but that's the only way to permanently solve this problem.

Build a tunnel and put a park on top of it.  Maplewood's version of the big dig.  We can use money from the Open Space Trust Fund.


Dunnel could work as a one way as Nohero pointed out. It’s narrow and it’s two way now, switching to one way is doable, but the people who live there might not like the idea. But eventually one way streets will have to be implemented. 


If you are thinking of making Dunnell a major through street, you had better check on the legal ownership of the property.  I believe that it used to be owned by the railroad before the dirt road was paved over a few years ago.


Dunnell has two separate sections.  A short stretch runs from Parker to Jefferson.  One then has to drive on Jefferson to reach the second segment which runs from Jefferson to the middle school.  Would that pose a problem with the one way proposal.  Just trying to picture what you have in mind.


joan_crystal said:

Dunnell has two separate sections.  A short stretch runs from Parker to Jefferson.  One then has to drive on Jefferson to reach the second segment which runs from Jefferson to the middle school.  Would that pose a problem with the one way proposal.  Just trying to picture what you have in mind.

Just one way going from Jefferson to Parker, to correspond to one way on Maplewood from Parker down to Jefferson. 


The real problems are speeding and inattentive driving. Jefferson is a long downhill straightaway. People also speed like hell between Maplewood Ave and Dunnell . But fortunately Dunnell isn't a through street there. (And fwiw, a lot of people speed like hell on Maplewood Ave toward the village, but that's another issue)

I've lived near this intersection for more than 20 years and seen more than my share of crashes. Until drivers on Jefferson are forced to slow down (a lot) we'll be having this discussion until the end of time. 


joan_crystal said:

Dunnell has two separate sections.  A short stretch runs from Parker to Jefferson.  One then has to drive on Jefferson to reach the second segment which runs from Jefferson to the middle school.  Would that pose a problem with the one way proposal.  Just trying to picture what you have in mind.

Nohero is saying make dunnel a one way going north, from Jefferson to west Parker. 


And I'll add that this is part of a larger issue of speeding and general ignoring of traffic laws in and near the village. As a pedestrian I've lost count of how many times I've nearly been struck by vehicles running stop signs, going the wrong way against a one-way, running through crosswalks. And often far above the 15 MPH limit. 

It shouldn't be that hazardous to cross a street in Maplewood village. Enforcement needs to be better. Not overbearing, but enough to provide a deterrent to dangerous driving. 


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