It goes from bad to worse for Sam Brownback's Kansas

You get what you vote for.

http://on.msnbc.com/1ZaD6n1


Of course, Kansas's unemployment rate has been persistently much lower than the national unemployment rate. 

https://klic.dol.ks.gov/gsipub/index.asp?docid=472

https://www.google.com/search?q=kansas+unemployment+rate&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS612US612&oq=kansas+unemployment&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US

Edited to add BLS data, because obviously Rethugs in Kansas are cooking the books.

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ks.htm


The national rate, for those keeping score, is 4.9%, which is worthy of much clap clapping and cheering yes?

Rachel Maddow either lacks the ability to understand what numbers are significant, or she's intentionally misleading, knowing that the credulous will just believe whatever she says.

Which one do you think it is of the 2? 

This thread to disappear in 3...2...1....


1. I see a link to something called Maddowblog. I do not see any comment by Rachel Maddow herself.

2.Statistics are always subject to interpretation.

3.Why would a thread disappear unless it was just a personal attack on a member of the community?


Hmmm, Rhodes Scholar and everything we've read about Brownback/Kansas in the past few years vs. JF's search? 

I'm gonna go with the lefty propagandist on this one.


GL2 said:

Hmmm, Rhodes Scholar and everything we've read about Brownback/Kansas in the past few years vs. JF's search? 

I'm gonna go with the lefty propagandist on this one.

Shocking. And who is "we"? Surely you meant everything you've read.

Appeals to authority works for some of folks. Hey, Trump,went to Wharton. Maybe you should go with him on business and economic matters.



LOST said:

1. I see a link to something called Maddowblog. I do not see any comment by Rachel Maddow herself.

2.Statistics are always subject to interpretation.

3.Why would a thread disappear unless it was just a personal attack on a member of the community?

Maddow is the editor and it has her name on it. is anyone responsible for anything anymore?

It'll disappear because the OP will recognize it as silly. Or not! Still silly.


Jackson_Fusion said:

Of course, Kansas's unemployment rate has been persistently much lower than the national unemployment rate. 

https://klic.dol.ks.gov/gsipub/index.asp?docid=472


https://www.google.com/search?q=kansas+unemployment+rate&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS612US612&oq=kansas+unemployment&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US


Edited to add BLS data, because obviously Rethugs in Kansas are cooking the books.

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ks.htm





The national rate, for those keeping score, is 4.9%, which is worthy of much clap clapping and cheering yes?

Rachel Maddow either lacks the ability to understand what numbers are significant, or she's intentionally misleading, knowing that the credulous will just believe whatever she says.

Which one do you think it is of the 2? 

This thread to disappear in 3...2...1....

I trust the numbers.  But then again, I'm a huge Obama fan and our decreasing unemployment numbers have always been contested from the right   


Woot said:
Jackson_Fusion said:

Of course, Kansas's unemployment rate has been persistently much lower than the national unemployment rate. 

https://klic.dol.ks.gov/gsipub/index.asp?docid=472


https://www.google.com/search?q=kansas+unemployment+rate&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS612US612&oq=kansas+unemployment&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US


Edited to add BLS data, because obviously Rethugs in Kansas are cooking the books.

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ks.htm





The national rate, for those keeping score, is 4.9%, which is worthy of much clap clapping and cheering yes?

Rachel Maddow either lacks the ability to understand what numbers are significant, or she's intentionally misleading, knowing that the credulous will just believe whatever she says.

Which one do you think it is of the 2? 

This thread to disappear in 3...2...1....

I trust the numbers.  But then again, I'm a huge Obama fan and our decreasing unemployment numbers have always been contested from the right   

Well, there's participation rate, which is bad everywhere- not sure if it's better or worse for Kansas. Part of that is outside Obama's control and cyclical and part of it is secular and policy driven. Given how soft the economy has been for as long as it has, there are those who went out of work with skills the economy valued at the time that are no longer needed or relevant. We may have to accept that a lower level of employment is to be expected- not trying to go into the goods or bads of coal mining, for example, but those jobs ain't coming back. 

Automation is part of this too, which is why labor was screaming about accelarated depreciation schedules that were put in place to encourage capital spending a few years back. It made the machine cheaper and labor looked more expensive by comparison. A lot of service jobs have been automated over the last decade. Not coming back.

A guy who got laid off in 2009 at 55 who hasn't upgraded skills in 7 years is 62 now. He's counted in the math for potentially employable but might just sit it out or work a lower paying job till social security kicks in.

Alot of the softness has been in manufacturing and construction, and most of that is prime age working males. If those sectors don't hire lots of them are going to either train for a new career or accept persistent unemployment or non skilled jobs.


Some good numbers in this article from last year about labor force participation. 

http://qz.com/516023/if-nearly-40-of-americans-arent-working-what-are-they-doing/


I don't think that OPs have the power to delete threads ... only moderators.  (No?)


His approval rating is down to 18%, lower than President Obama's in Kansas.


According to the Kansas City Star, because of the devastating tax cuts and other decisions made on Brownback’s watch, Kansas government now operates in a perpetual state of fiscal crisis.  

Great job Governor. Keep up the good work for the people of Kansas. 


The poor people of Kansas and Louisiana, and what Brownback and Jindal have done to their states.  At least Louisiana has a new Democratic governor who will clean up the mess.  Maybe the same will happen  in Kansas.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/gop-must-answer-for-what-it-did-to-kansas.html


Seriously, what on earth would prompt anyone to post links defending Brownback unless you are his mom?

Or maybe it's just about Maddow. She's scary for a lot of folks.

 



Zoinks? OK, maybe Zoinks.


I think even Brownback's Mom is saying what in the hell are you doing?!


Even the cretins at the Westboro Baptist Church are asking what's wrong with that guy.


GL2 said:

Zoinks? OK, maybe Zoinks.

Yes me. 


GL2 said:

Seriously, what on earth would prompt anyone to post links defending Brownback unless you are his mom?

Or maybe it's just about Maddow. She's scary for a lot of folks.

 

Yes yes. Why bother with facts when we have our feels, our ever so incontinent feels?


Not really interested in JF's or the OP's feelings on Rachel Maddow, but the actual substance of the article is interesting (personally, I'm a bit skeptical of cable news in general, so I'd probably have linked directly to the KC Star newspaper article instead, but to each their own).

What is pretty unavoidably clear is that Brownback's tax experiment has done a number on the Kansas state budget. I'd expect that will have pretty negative long term implications, especially as education is one of the areas most severely impacted.

What's interesting to me with this particular report is its focus on employment. Job creation is clearly far, far below what Brownback was projecting - I don't think even JF is denying that - but unemployment rate is actually looking pretty good.  I don't know why that is, and it would be interesting to hear someone with insight on this. Job growth is anemic, the state budget is in shambles, and yet so far the unemployment rate doesn't seem that affected - not necessarily what I would have expected. Are Kansans just leaving the state rather than staying around and being unemployed? Someone upthread mentioned the participation rate - is this changing, and is that a factor? Kansas is a big agricultural state, and I believe employment data is broken down between farm and non-farm jobs - maybe this is at play? 

I really have no idea. Of course, in terms of answering the question "has Brownback's experiment been a success," this is all beside the point. It's been a pretty clear failure thus far, however academically interesting the mystery of its unemployment rate may be.


PVW said:

Not really interested in JF's or the OP's feelings on Rachel Maddow, but the actual substance of the article is interesting (personally, I'm a bit skeptical of cable news in general, so I'd probably have linked directly to the KC Star newspaper article instead, but to each their own).

What is pretty unavoidably clear is that Brownback's tax experiment has done a number on the Kansas state budget. I'd expect that will have pretty negative long term implications, especially as education is one of the areas most severely impacted.

What's interesting to me with this particular report is its focus on employment. Job creation is clearly far, far below what Brownback was projecting - I don't think even JF is denying that - but unemployment rate is actually looking pretty good.  I don't know why that is, and it would be interesting to hear someone with insight on this. Job growth is anemic, the state budget is in shambles, and yet so far the unemployment rate doesn't seem that affected - not necessarily what I would have expected. Are Kansans just leaving the state rather than staying around and being unemployed? Someone upthread mentioned the participation rate - is this changing, and is that a factor? Kansas is a big agricultural state, and I believe employment data is broken down between farm and non-farm jobs - maybe this is at play? 

I really have no idea. Of course, in terms of answering the question "has Brownback's experiment been a success," this is all beside the point. It's been a pretty clear failure thus far, however academically interesting the mystery of its unemployment rate may be.

Payrolls quoted are all non- farm.

Education spending has gone up under Brownback.

Not particularly interested in defending Kansas's government. Just tiring seeing the goofbag factually challenged declarations of partisan horror.


Jackson_Fusion said:


PVW said:

Not really interested in JF's or the OP's feelings on Rachel Maddow, but the actual substance of the article is interesting (personally, I'm a bit skeptical of cable news in general, so I'd probably have linked directly to the KC Star newspaper article instead, but to each their own).

What is pretty unavoidably clear is that Brownback's tax experiment has done a number on the Kansas state budget. I'd expect that will have pretty negative long term implications, especially as education is one of the areas most severely impacted.

What's interesting to me with this particular report is its focus on employment. Job creation is clearly far, far below what Brownback was projecting - I don't think even JF is denying that - but unemployment rate is actually looking pretty good.  I don't know why that is, and it would be interesting to hear someone with insight on this. Job growth is anemic, the state budget is in shambles, and yet so far the unemployment rate doesn't seem that affected - not necessarily what I would have expected. Are Kansans just leaving the state rather than staying around and being unemployed? Someone upthread mentioned the participation rate - is this changing, and is that a factor? Kansas is a big agricultural state, and I believe employment data is broken down between farm and non-farm jobs - maybe this is at play? 

I really have no idea. Of course, in terms of answering the question "has Brownback's experiment been a success," this is all beside the point. It's been a pretty clear failure thus far, however academically interesting the mystery of its unemployment rate may be.

Payrolls quoted are all non- farm.

Education spending has gone up under Brownback.

Not particularly interested in defending Kansas's government. Just tiring seeing the goofbag factually challenged declarations of partisan horror.

On education spending, depends how you count. During Brownback's last run, a couple of years ago, this was debated - here's an article from the Wichita Eagle looking at how both he and his opponent counted education spending.

If you include things like federal aid and payments to pensions, total spending has been nearly flat (accounting for inflation) - so actually we'd have to be generous to conclude that "education spending has gone up."

If you look at state aid per pupil, spending has clearly decreased.

If I'm counting, I think I care more about money actually spent on educating students, but then again, I'm not trying to justify blowing up my state's budget. 


It's the great Kansas Tea Party debacle. Maybe those goofbags will learn something from it.  Doubt it though.  


Maybe Brownback will hire Jindal as a consultant.  


Jackson_Fusion said:


PVW said:

Not really interested in JF's or the OP's feelings on Rachel Maddow, but the actual substance of the article is interesting (personally, I'm a bit skeptical of cable news in general, so I'd probably have linked directly to the KC Star newspaper article instead, but to each their own).

What is pretty unavoidably clear is that Brownback's tax experiment has done a number on the Kansas state budget. I'd expect that will have pretty negative long term implications, especially as education is one of the areas most severely impacted.

What's interesting to me with this particular report is its focus on employment. Job creation is clearly far, far below what Brownback was projecting - I don't think even JF is denying that - but unemployment rate is actually looking pretty good.  I don't know why that is, and it would be interesting to hear someone with insight on this. Job growth is anemic, the state budget is in shambles, and yet so far the unemployment rate doesn't seem that affected - not necessarily what I would have expected. Are Kansans just leaving the state rather than staying around and being unemployed? Someone upthread mentioned the participation rate - is this changing, and is that a factor? Kansas is a big agricultural state, and I believe employment data is broken down between farm and non-farm jobs - maybe this is at play? 

I really have no idea. Of course, in terms of answering the question "has Brownback's experiment been a success," this is all beside the point. It's been a pretty clear failure thus far, however academically interesting the mystery of its unemployment rate may be.

Payrolls quoted are all non- farm.

Education spending has gone up under Brownback.

Not particularly interested in defending Kansas's government. Just tiring seeing the goofbag factually challenged declarations of partisan horror.

Exactly.  Like quoting Kansas unemployment rates and then debunking the value of unemployment statistics.   


Woot said:
Jackson_Fusion said:


PVW said:

Not really interested in JF's or the OP's feelings on Rachel Maddow, but the actual substance of the article is interesting (personally, I'm a bit skeptical of cable news in general, so I'd probably have linked directly to the KC Star newspaper article instead, but to each their own).

What is pretty unavoidably clear is that Brownback's tax experiment has done a number on the Kansas state budget. I'd expect that will have pretty negative long term implications, especially as education is one of the areas most severely impacted.

What's interesting to me with this particular report is its focus on employment. Job creation is clearly far, far below what Brownback was projecting - I don't think even JF is denying that - but unemployment rate is actually looking pretty good.  I don't know why that is, and it would be interesting to hear someone with insight on this. Job growth is anemic, the state budget is in shambles, and yet so far the unemployment rate doesn't seem that affected - not necessarily what I would have expected. Are Kansans just leaving the state rather than staying around and being unemployed? Someone upthread mentioned the participation rate - is this changing, and is that a factor? Kansas is a big agricultural state, and I believe employment data is broken down between farm and non-farm jobs - maybe this is at play? 

I really have no idea. Of course, in terms of answering the question "has Brownback's experiment been a success," this is all beside the point. It's been a pretty clear failure thus far, however academically interesting the mystery of its unemployment rate may be.

Payrolls quoted are all non- farm.

Education spending has gone up under Brownback.

Not particularly interested in defending Kansas's government. Just tiring seeing the goofbag factually challenged declarations of partisan horror.

Exactly.  Like quoting Kansas unemployment rates and then debunking the value of unemployment statistics.   

Who did that? 



people can cherry pick their own statistics to argue any partisan side on any small detail of Kansas's fiscal circumstances.

But the big picture is this -- Sam Brownback promised the state could cut taxes and the revenue shortfall would be made up by surging growth and lots of new jobs.  And that didn't happen, and the state is having a hard time making ends meet.

I would think that anyone, regardless of partisan orientation would conclude that that's a bad thing.  


ml1 said:

people can cherry pick their own statistics to argue any partisan side on any small detail of Kansas's fiscal circumstances.

But the big picture is this -- Sam Brownback promised the state could cut taxes and the revenue shortfall would be made up by surging growth and lots of new jobs.  And that didn't happen, and the state is having a hard time making ends meet.

I would think that anyone, regardless of partisan orientation would conclude that that's a bad thing.  

+1


exactly like George W. Bush and Bobby Jindal.


Take your choice:

http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/whatsthematter.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_the_Matter_with_Kansas%3F


Even small business owners in Kansas are calling on the legislature to raise their taxes to deal with the budget shortfalls.  Unheard of, but that's how bad it is.


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