Is it worth it to hire an attorney to fight a NY speeding ticket?

And if so, is $549 a reasonable fee (guaranteed to reduce fine and points) or would a cheaper firm/attorney get the same results? Otherwise clean driving record, but this was "conveniently" just over 15 MPH over the limit on a county road in a small Catskill town. And it wasn't me.

Why not just plead guilty and pay the ticket? Maybe they can argue it down a notch - I don't know.

jasper said:

And if so, is $549 a reasonable fee (guaranteed to reduce fine and points) or would a cheaper firm/attorney get the same results? Otherwise clean driving record, but this was "conveniently" just over 15 MPH over the limit on a county road in a small Catskill town. And it wasn't me.

Guessing it's not feasible for the driver to make it back up there for a hearing to contest the ticket him- or herself?

tjohn, that's the simplest option, but it's hard to tell how much this will impact insurance. No doubt, it will go up - the real question is, by how much, and whether it warrants a pre-emptive up-front payment to the attorney. If they knock down the violation, it will theoretically reduce the insurance penalty.

Pay the ticket and eat the points. If NY is like NJ, 3 points will fall off in a year if said driver doesn't accrue any other traffic violations. It's not worth it (IMO) to pay an additional fine to have the points removed, a common NJ prosecutor's office tactic to the tune of $250. If you show up in court, the prosecutor may be willing to lower the speeding violation from 15 over to under 10 which can affect if you get points at all. My experience was in a Glen Ridge traffic court. It went well.

jasper said:

And if so, is $549 a reasonable fee (guaranteed to reduce fine and points) or would a cheaper firm/attorney get the same results? Otherwise clean driving record, but this was "conveniently" just over 15 MPH over the limit on a county road in a small Catskill town. And it wasn't me.

Dave, it's not impossible, but that driver is disinclined to do it.

It's possible to negotiate a higher fine for less or no points without an attorney, people do it here all the time.

If you're saying $549 is the attorney fee, and the person really wants an attorney, I wouldn't spend time looking for a less expensive attorney, as that seems pretty low. That said, I'd be wary of an attorney who "guarantees" a result.

jasper said:

Dave, it's not impossible, but that driver is disinclined to do it.

I asked because in Philly, my experience was that if you took the time out of the workday to fight a ticket (easy for me, because of my schedule), it earned the benefit of the doubt and a favorable decision.

On the other hand, plenty of jurisdictions have proved draconian in their pursuit of scofflaw revenue, whether or not you show up. So if the driver is disinclined, the gamble probably isn't worth it.

I thought its only two points for any out-of-state MV ticket.

Thanks, Eliz. I was told that in terms of the points on your license, while this would be 4 points in the state of NY, when transferring to a NJ license, it's 2 points per violation. My understanding is that while the NJMVC will drop 3 points per year if you have no further violations, the insurance company will still penalize you for up to 3 years based on the actual violation, not the number of license points.

The problem with going to court is that it's close to a 2 hour drive from here. Mind you, someone doesn't seem to mind doing it for a day of skiing...

A defensive driving course will garner a slight reduction in liability premium for 3 years...this could offset a potential increase in premium from said violation. However, if driving 2 hours is too much for the insured, a 6 hour online class would be too much. You can only lead the horse to water, so to speak. Good luck.

So, according to this, GEICO charges about a 45% premium surcharge for a period of 3 years for the vehicle for which the offending driver is the primary driver for "1 point", which is what they assign for speeding in excess of 20 MPH of the posted limit. Interestingly, this violation was under 20 MPH over the speed limit, so now the whole thing is a big question, and it all feels like a gamble.

Meanwhile, I see that we are supposed to notify the insurance company when our son received his permanent driver's license. Who knows if that won't increase our insurance over his just having a permit, for which he was already on the policy. On the other hand, I also neglected to notify them that I'm no longer driving to work, because I no longer have a job. Oh what fun.

And you're right, Eliz. My stroppy horse is not likely to sit for a 6 hour defensive driving course.

The bottom line is that without the attorney, we will pay $393 in fines and fees, and with the attorney, we will likely pay about $800 in total up front (they estimated they would get the fine and fee reduced to around $250). That extra $400 now would theoretically eliminate 3 years' worth of about $400 or so of insurance premiums, if I'm reading this all correctly.

jasper said:

The bottom line is that without the attorney, we will pay $393 in fines and fees, and with the attorney, we will likely pay about $800 in total up front (they estimated they would get the fine and fee reduced to around $250). That extra $400 now would theoretically eliminate 3 years' worth of about $400 or so of insurance premiums, if I'm reading this all correctly.

This happened to me. You're right, it's the violation that counts not the points so much. The lawyer could get the points removed but it won't change the violation in the insurance agent's eyes. If your son can go and get the speed reduced from 15 to under 10 even better. It could all be an unpleasant memory. For $400 unless he's changing the speeding to a parking ticket, it's asking a lot.

Thankfully it was not my son. He's still a new driver, and I've warned him to be very careful about not getting ANY tickets.

My life motto holds: no good deed goes unpunished. Like a naive fool, I called the insurance company to notify them of my son's permanent driver's license, along with the reduced amount of driving on the vehicles, and I'll be getting a bill for another $300 for the remainder of the policy year.

I'm tired of everything.

BG9 said:

I thought its only two points for any out-of-state MV ticket.

This. It happened to me recently. Out of state. Only 2 points. Not worth it to hire a lawyer.

Thanks, shoshannah. Was it long enough ago to notice if your insurance rates went up at the subsequent renewal?

jasper said:

Thanks, shoshannah. Was it long enough ago to notice if your insurance rates went up at the subsequent renewal?

Auto insurance is my husband's domain. I'll ask him.

Update: He said it didn't go up.

If it is anything like NJ, the standard practice is to plea you down to a lesser charge. A cop told me this about 25 years ago and in recent years everyone I know that has gotten a ticket has been offered a plea. They purposely wait for you to be more than 15 over the limit and then plea you down to less than 15 over the limit which i would think is less points/lower fine.

If it is like NJ, at the 1st hearing, you would enter your plea. You can do this without a lawyer...and see if they offer you a deal. Only if it is going to trial might a lawyer be helpful.

If you can, try to spend a day at the court and see how the operate.

Do you have to appear in court anyway? Or do they have video or online hearings?

Also, Jersey used to and may still have the law that no matter what the violation was out of state it is a 2 point penalty on your license. So it might not really matter for your license/insurance.

There is a difference between license points and insurance penalties...the license points fall off quick now (i think it used to be 1 per year), but it all stays on your insurance for a few years

some insurance is not affected by 2 points

and there are cheap online driving courses that will improve your insurance rate...look on living social and groupon for deals

If the person was speeding, the only way out of a conviction altogether is to discredit the cop..not likely to happen.

Thanks, jmitw. The offending party here doesn't want to spend a day going all the way back up to Ulster County for a day, where he somehow believes that it will turn into more than one day if the court is too busy to hear the case on the assigned day. Never a more glass-half-empty person has there been. : - |

If a court appearance is required, it seems the person needs to make the trip at least once...

If I'm reading the ticket correctly, it's not required. You can simply plead guilty, wait for a bill in the mail, and make a payment.

Oh, this is interesting. I just noticed that if he were to plead not guilty and choose to appear in court, the ticket says he would need to be there by 6:00 AM. He'd have to leave here at around 4:15 AM to get there on time. That seems absurd.

jasper said:

Oh, this is interesting. I just noticed that if he were to plead not guilty and choose to appear in court, the ticket says he would need to be there by 6:00 AM. He's have to leave here at around 4:15 AM to get there on time. That seems absurd.

(Hence, the Philly theory as I experienced it: If you're willing to go through the absurdity, you must have a pretty good case.)

Well, there's no way he's going to go there, especially at that hour, so our only choices are to pay an attorney, or just pay the ticket and hope for the best. Sigh.

The latter.

jasper said:

Well, there's no way he's going to go there, especially at that hour, so our only choices are to pay an attorney, or just pay the ticket and hope for the best. Sigh.

Leaning that way, Eliz. Even so, that was a very expensive day of skiing. Not to mention how many hours I've wasted today researching and debating with myself about which way to go. Thanks, all, for your time and input. Much appreciated.

I have taken care of many tickets for my employer, both in Ulster and Rockland counties. Call the court office. No court starts at 6:00 a.m. You are lucky if anything gets started before 10:a.m.

First appearance, you meet with the prosecutor. You get offered a reduced fine or whatever. If you take it, you get before the judge about 1/2 hour later, then pay the fine an go home.

If, as referenced in an earlier post, the ticket was for 15+ over the speed limit, you get reduced to 14 over and pay the lesser fine. This is because the court, being an ATM machine for the government, doesn't want to waste time hearing your sob story. They just want the money and for you to quietly fade away.

In any case, YOU DON"T NEED AN ATTORNEY!

If the alleged offender is not willing to make the trip to court, why are you concerned about the matter? Remove the alleged offender from your policy, don't allow them the use of your vehicles, and let them fend for themselves.

If there are no consequences, how will the alleged offender learn that there are consequences to their actions?

Driving 15 to 19 mph over the limit on a County road in a small Catskill town makes it sound as though any money spent on driving lessons, was not well spent. County speed limits throughout most of New York are 50 mph.

That being said; New York's Criminal Procedure Law requires (or, at least, used to require) that the complaining party provide a supporting deposition upon timely demand. I have never heard of an instance in which the complaining party provided the supporting deposition for a traffic violation. New York's CPL does not apply in jurisdictions with a traffic Court, separate from the standard Court system. (NYC and one or two other municipalities in NYS).

Sometimes, it's worthwhile to consult with counsel. They know stuff most of us don't.

TomR

Tom_R said:

If the alleged offender is not willing to make the trip to court, why are you concerned about the matter? Remove the alleged offender from your policy, don't allow them the use of your vehicles, and let them fend for themselves.

If there are no consequences, how will the alleged offender learn that there are consequences to their actions?

If you don't know the alleged offender, TomR, you probably don't know why I'm guffawing right now, but thank you.

If you do know him, then this is even funnier.