Inverter/Battery Pack to Run Boiler archived
Nov 28, 2012 at 2:10am Edited
To be clear, I understand that I will have to have an electrician install the work around plug to allow the boiler to run off an external power source.
You basically need a properly sized UPS wired into your boiler circuit at the appropriate location. No need to plug and unplug this. It would charge from either the grid or the generator, and when neither is available, it would discharge from its battery to power just the boiler.
The UPS unit should have a built in breaker. If it doesn't you'd need to have an additional panel downstream of the UPS.
The UPS unit should have a built in breaker. If it doesn't you'd need to have an additional panel downstream of the UPS.
PS The above assumes that you have a true whole house generator permanently wired to the main panel with a proper transfer switch...
a UPS will deplete itself very quickly!! L.P. REFERNCE THE THREAD ON sOLAR, ETC ETC, BOOKMARK IT. tHERE IS A WEALTH OF INFO THERE!
How large is the draw (in watts / HP / amps)? Oil would be significantly higher
For my oil boiler, which is 1/6hp motor, assuming it's running 20% of the time during the day (I have no idea if this makes sense), you'd need about 80ah worth of battery.
(124watts=10amps@12volts * 20hours*20% = 40ah * allowable discharge of 50% = 80ah)
The question is could you charge the batter back to 100% in the 4 hours you'd want to run the generator, which I think is the limiting factor.
You likely could cycle the generator a bit more, get the house up to temp, and then let it cool in-between easier than keeping the battery charged.
A natural-gas boiler would require significantly less electricity, and be a more practical.
For my oil boiler, which is 1/6hp motor, assuming it's running 20% of the time during the day (I have no idea if this makes sense), you'd need about 80ah worth of battery.
(124watts=10amps@12volts * 20hours*20% = 40ah * allowable discharge of 50% = 80ah)
The question is could you charge the batter back to 100% in the 4 hours you'd want to run the generator, which I think is the limiting factor.
You likely could cycle the generator a bit more, get the house up to temp, and then let it cool in-between easier than keeping the battery charged.
A natural-gas boiler would require significantly less electricity, and be a more practical.
Nov 28, 2012 at 3:26am Edited
If I was to get around to doing this (which I probably won't in this house) I would:
1. "cut-in" a plug for the power inverter between the emergency cut-off switch and the boiler (that method, via putting the emergency switch in the "off" position would prevent the possibility of grid power coming back-on to the boiler during an outage). -This part is not rocket science and is no different than installing any other plug or light fixture via black wire (hot), white (neutral) and green/bare copper (ground).
2. Get an as yet undetermined inverter to convert the DC battery to AC for the boiler. -Google this subject. FYI: These inverters are most commonly used for people camping with RVs etc so they can run small stuff off a car battery. For that reason they often have a UBS port for cell phones etc. A gas boiler does not require much power which is why it has a transformer to knock-down the power from the household 120V.
3. Get a "deep cycle marine" battery which is more expensive than a regular car battery but lasts longer in use.
4. Have a way to periodically charge, monitor the charge of the battery during the year (another google search) and hope that it would last me through a few heating cycles during an outage.
or
5. Move to a much warmer climate.
1. "cut-in" a plug for the power inverter between the emergency cut-off switch and the boiler (that method, via putting the emergency switch in the "off" position would prevent the possibility of grid power coming back-on to the boiler during an outage). -This part is not rocket science and is no different than installing any other plug or light fixture via black wire (hot), white (neutral) and green/bare copper (ground).
2. Get an as yet undetermined inverter to convert the DC battery to AC for the boiler. -Google this subject. FYI: These inverters are most commonly used for people camping with RVs etc so they can run small stuff off a car battery. For that reason they often have a UBS port for cell phones etc. A gas boiler does not require much power which is why it has a transformer to knock-down the power from the household 120V.
3. Get a "deep cycle marine" battery which is more expensive than a regular car battery but lasts longer in use.
4. Have a way to periodically charge, monitor the charge of the battery during the year (another google search) and hope that it would last me through a few heating cycles during an outage.
or
5. Move to a much warmer climate.
Nov 28, 2012 at 5:17am Edited
wnb said:
PS The above assumes that you have a true whole house generator permanently wired to the main panel with a proper transfer switch...
Yup. A 10kw natural gas powered Generac.
jabberwocky said:
How large is the draw (in watts / HP / amps)?
I am not sure about this. The boiler runs on natural gas but we didn't get the manual when we bought the house. I am thinking the electrical draw ought to be pretty low since the boiler is the only thing I am planning on running
One of the plumbers posted about this on another thread - Burnham Independence gas steam boiler draws about 40 watts.
It is rarely (never in NJ?) necessary to run a boiler 24 hours a day. Many of us have setback thermostats that effectively turn off the boiler at night anyway. So, if you are going to have a generator running part of each day, I don't see the justification for an additional backup source for the heating system. Even in very cold weather periods, if you get your house warm, it will stay that way (or at least tolerable) for half a day or more.
sac said:
It is rarely (never in NJ?) necessary to run a boiler 24 hours a day. Many of us have setback thermostats that effectively turn off the boiler at night anyway. So, if you are going to have a generator running part of each day, I don't see the justification for an additional backup source for the heating system. Even in very cold weather periods, if you get your house warm, it will stay that way (or at least tolerable) for half a day or more.
Chuckle.... gotta love Maplewood Online. No matter what the question, sooner or later, someone will tell you that you are wrong for asking it.
Obviously, I have tried various permutations of generator and heating and decided that I would like to add a battery system. Thus the thread.
wnb said:
Single pipe steam correct? That was my other assumption.
I think so. Is there a different configuration?
I was just thinking if it was a hot water instead of steam system, those have an electric pump to circulate the water through the radiators which would require more electricity.
wnb said:
I was just thinking if it was a hot water instead of steam system, those have an electric pump to circulate the water through the radiators which would require more electricity.
Oh, I meant about the "single pipe". Our system is steam. As far as I can tell, the only electrical components are the auto fill pump, a motor that opens and shuts the flue and a motor that opens the gas valve.
Sprout- my thermostats appear to run off electricity from the control circuit of the boiler itself.
L.P.- in an effort to solve exactly the same problem you describe, I opened this thread with a proposal for a solar-charged marine battery backup solution for my steam heat system. It's here:
http://forum.maplewoodonline.com/vc/discussion/89236/solargrid-charged-battery-backup-for-furnacesump-pumps
and as Locowolfy said, there's a ton of good information from Sprout, Tourn, and others.
L.P.- in an effort to solve exactly the same problem you describe, I opened this thread with a proposal for a solar-charged marine battery backup solution for my steam heat system. It's here:
http://forum.maplewoodonline.com/vc/discussion/89236/solargrid-charged-battery-backup-for-furnacesump-pumps
and as Locowolfy said, there's a ton of good information from Sprout, Tourn, and others.
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