Meanderings...

nan said:

mjh said:

I really liked this one, which sums up my feelings nicely:

http://afterhourskg.blogspot.com/2014/09/can-we-talk-unruly-life-and-legacy-of.html


+1 perfect


yeah, good piece.


I don't like comedy that's based on cruel and nasty personal attacks on people's physical characteristics or the way they dress. So I didn't like Joan Rivers' comedy.

Not quite as early as 1965, but there were several female comics on Laugh-In every week starting in 1968. All trail blazers: Lily Tomlin, Ruth Buzzi, Goldi Hawn...

Lucille Ball had been on the air for years with I Love Lucy. Not stand-up but VERY funny. Or does that not count? (Serious question, not snark.) The Carol Burnett Show started in 1967.

It was a great era for funny women. I don't know whether you can argue Joan Rivers started that or she was merely a major player in a growing trend.

And it really is serious BS for Broadway's lights not to dim for her. Like her or not, you can't deny she was a huge presence in the world of entertainment.

I think stand-up is a bit different from straight comedy, only because women stand-ups were so rare back then. I'd forgotten all about Lily Tomlin and the Laugh-in crew. Tomlin did stand-up and I've always though she was great. She's scheduled to get a Kennedy Center Center award, I just saw as I googled her.

Yeah, you can't say Rivers started it - I think Phyllis Diller preceded her in the 60's, but Diller was mostly shtick, while Rivers was more of a traditional stand-up, and I can't think of another women who was as big as her from that time or before. mjh's link, above, mentions 3 women, only one of whom I've heard of before, who probably influenced Rivers - Sophie Tucker, Pearl Williams, and Belle Barth.

But at least in the early age of television, when comedy was dominated by men like Milton Berle and Sid Caesar and Red Skelton, Rivers was one of the trailblazers who opened it up for women.

Broadway lights were dimmed for Rivers.

Because when they originally announced that they wouldn't several individual theaters said if so then they would do it on their own...

Scully said:

Because when they originally announced that they wouldn't several individual theaters said if so then they would do it on their own...


question

DB, I was thinking perhaps stand-up was different from straight comedy, but I'm not exactly sure how. I can see how doing stand-up with a live audience in a club could be VERY intimidating, compared with television, but I'm still thinking that through.

In television, they heckle you after the show.

buzzlightyear said:

Facts are important and you left out a very important fact. He hated her after Fox hired her to compete with him on a late night show. Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things

Carson's issue with her wasn't with her being hired away at all. (All one has to do is look at the relationship he had with Joey Bishop: he encouraged him to leave for his own show, took his repeated calls for advice while a competitor, and brought him back when his show was cancelled.) His issue was strictly with Rivers not discussing her pending decision with him before accepting their offer.

Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things, and all that.

It's generally acknowledged that the first three female stand ups were Totie Fields, Phyllis Diller and Joan. They were all doing it in the early-mid 60s. The laugh in crowd came five or so years later.

dawprod said:

It's generally acknowledged that the first three female stand ups were Totie Fields, Phyllis Diller and Joan.

The Forgotten Genius of Moms Mabley

I do think you'll find that Sophie Tucker should be included in that list: she influenced most of the others and was well known for her chat linking the staging of her songs (her pianist acted as straight man).

Gracie Allen was taking the lead in comedy duos before acting as foil to George Burns; it's generally acknowledged that her comic timing and skill lent special pizzazz to his jokes.

So I think the definition of 'stand up' is a bit wider than we think of in the male-dominated wiki generation, and also that there have many very very funny women on a cabaret/review stage in single and starring roles who have faded from memory.

Agreed that the definition can broadened. (Ba-dum tish.) Based only on what I've read, however, I imagine Moms Mabley's performances were more like the standup we've been accustomed to since the 1960s than, say, those of Sophie Tucker, Gracie Allen, Pearl Williams or Belle Barth. More directly comparable in format to Fields, Diller and Rivers -- just decades earlier.

Depends on the era - Sophie didn't always sing towards the last couple of decades, for example, as her vocal stamina and range became more limited.

And while all that was going on, we had really cheeky jazz singers who were really comediennes in disguise. I'm thinking of Blossom Dearie and some of the catchy but cheeky songs of the 50s and 60s.

I'm happy to defer, and happy for the reminder of Tucker, Allen and the others. If not general acknowledgment, it appears that at least two of us believe that female standup just may have predated F., D., R.

joanne said:

Depends on the era - Sophie didn't always sing towards the last couple of decades, for example, as her vocal stamina and range became more limited.

And while all that was going on, we had really cheeky jazz singers who were really comediennes in disguise. I'm thinking of Blossom Dearie and some of the catchy but cheeky songs of the 50s and 60s.


Love Blossom Dearie's version of I'll Take Manhattan. But The Gentleman is A Dope is more humorous.


Now I'm searching and storing Blossom on my Spotify...

Are there any recordings of Tucker, Pearl Williams or Belle Barth? There must be of Sophie Tucker.
hmm, why don't I look?

definitely not 60's Ed Sullivan material

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlhalwDKckA

Hide the kiddies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipv2EYYnfJc

ctrzaska said:

buzzlightyear said:

Facts are important and you left out a very important fact. He hated her after Fox hired her to compete with him on a late night show. Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things

Carson's issue with her wasn't with her being hired away at all. (All one has to do is look at the relationship he had with Joey Bishop: he encouraged him to leave for his own show, took his repeated calls for advice while a competitor, and brought him back when his show was cancelled.) His issue was strictly with Rivers not discussing her pending decision with him before accepting their offer.

Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things, and all that.


uh oh, CTrazska is using Inside Edition as his source. Kind of like his new Mary Mann.

Or not, on both counts.

Carson is still a putz for how he behaved. As if he has to give his blessing for her career moves. She obviously felt bad about it and tried to apologize.

I've been contemplating for some time whether to post about this and obviously I've finally decided to do so.

The few of you who know me IRL know that I'm a big guy. Very big. Well, I'm pushing 60, I've got diabetes that is very hard to control, I can barely walk through the Home Depot without running out of breath and I've decided that maybe I'd like to live awhile longer. So, I'm going to have weight loss surgery (WLS). Tentatively in December. The delay due to my moron insurance company.

Specifically, I'm having a vertical sleeve gastrectomy, or just gastric sleeve for short. In this operation, they remove about 85% of the stomach and leave you with a banana shaped (and sized) section of the stomach left. That's the "sleeve". No other plumbing is changed. The entry and egress remain the same. This is different than the classic weight loss surgery, the gastric bypass,(the Al Roker surgery), which involves constructing a small pouch to replace the stomach, and reroutes your intestines a bit so that your caloric and nutrient absorption is affected. i.e. not all the food you eat is actually processed by your digestive system. This is called malabsorption. The sleeve is purely restrictive - no malabsorption is involved. (The sleeve is the operation that Rosie O'Donnell had.)

Apart from that difference, post surgical life is very similar for the two operations, though bypass patients usually require extra dietary supplements that sleeve patients normally don't. The amount you can eat at one time is severely restricted, but you still have to embark on a lifelong change in eating habits, or you will regain the weight. The surgery is a tool that helps the weight loss process, but it's not a total solution, and it's not an easy way out by any means. I'm finding that out in spades because I've joined several WLS support groups on FB and other places to get an idea of what people are experiencing, and hooboy is it a minefield. I'm expecting quite a journey, not all of it pleasant, but I'm looking forward to starting it.

One of the reasons I'm posting about this is the off chance that someone out there has had the surgery too. I can't remember anyone ever talking about it on MOL, in any way, except for Christie's lap-band (which, I've learned, is quickly falling into disfavor among much of the surgical community due to it's low effectiveness and high complication rate.)

It's a subject that a lot of people keep private, for good reason. It's bad enough that there is a lot of fat shaming that goes on, but once people hear that you're going to have life altering surgery to try and lose weight, many people's response is a barely hidden disdain that you're taking the easy way out, or it's comments like "why don't you just go to the gym?". On the support forums comments like these even come from people's PCP's, which shows you how far we still have to go.

So that's it. I'll post more on this in the future. Comments are welcome, of course.

Good for you for going through with it and for sharing your story. I am definitely aware that this is not the "easy way out". I have no experience or advice, but I wish you the best and will be very interested in "sharing your journey" (so to speak).


I haven't ever been overweight and consequently not needed any type of surgery to help move forward on a more healthy path (I could use some other things however), and so please disregard my comments as you see fit, but I've no idea why someone not in your position would exhibit disdain for what you're about to do.

Regardless, I'll offer the opposite: sounds like this is a rather big decision/move, sure as hell doesn't seem "easy" to me in the least (and on a whole host of counts), and clearly has its own risks and future demands. Here's wishing you the best of luck and all success with it.

I actually know people who've had the older style surgeries, managed well, and are forever grateful that they made the change. So good for you on even contemplating it: this is becoming recognised now as a way to manage difficult-to-treat diabetes (type 2), and will hopefully forestall all the other stuff you dread.

Best wishes Drummerboy, I'm confident that you have thoroughly studied all the literature, pros and cons, and are making the best decision for yourself.

Wishing you well, DB. Remember that it's a process. You certainly didn't put on the weight overnight so, even with the sleeve, don't expect it to come off overnight. Be patient and most importantly, follow your doctor's orders about it! I had a friend who wouldn't and she ended up having the sleeve removed. It's going to be hard, but keep at it.

My SIL had the older gastric bypass surgery many years ago and did extremely well for awhile. Lost nealry 100 pounds and looked great. Unfortunately, though, she has put back on a fair amount of that weight in the past couple of years, so I have mixed feelings about that particular surgery. I'm hoping the potential to regain the weight is smaller with the sleeve version. As Marylago said, be sure to follow your doctor's advice to the letter. I suspect that might be where my SIL went astray.

I hope everything goes perfectly for you, DB, and that you have an easy procedure and completely successful recovery afterward. I'm not familiar with this new twist on the surgical options, but I am in no doubt that it's not "taking the easy way out."

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