How will the "Wall" Shutdown end?
The most probable ending will be a compromise that will allow both sides to claim victory.
LOST said:
The most probable ending will be a compromise that will allow both sides to claim victory.
That alone would be something different for Trump who seems to view every transaction as zero-sum.
GL2 said:
No matter how it ends, he'll declare victory.
Well, he is unencumbered by the facts in all of his dealings. And the truth. And, for that matter, the law if he finds it burdensome.
tjohn said:
GL2 said:Well, he is unencumbered by the facts in all of his dealings. And the truth. And, for that matter, the law if he finds it burdensome.
No matter how it ends, he'll declare victory.
Most of all he’s unencumbered by concern for the people this hurts. If Dems can’t get him to back down , then I hope activist groups move to shut down his businesses. Block the entrances to his country clubs. Use social media to incite traffic mobs to crate gridlock during events (e.g. golf tournaments and weddings). Interrupt his supply chain. Flood Trump properties with phone calls. That being said I’m a middle aged homeowner dude so I’d only be will to engage in a couple of such activities where legal risk is minimal. But I’m really disappointed that such tactics haven’t been used to date.
tom said:
Maybe never. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/appeals-court-grants-trump-emoluments
tom, are you saying DJT would pursue a course of action to benefit himself which would adversely affect LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE in the country? That would make him a sociopath.
It won't end it but I want Schumer/Pelosi to say they will give him the $5B for the wall, in exchange for a clause in the bill that protects the Mueller investigation. $5B is not a lot to pay to ensure the American people get the truth. It would be interesting to see McConnell and Trump try to wriggle out of that one -
Trump might end up with a beaded curtain and still claim Mexico paid for it....and he won...
luigi said:
It won't end it but I want Schumer/Pelosi to say they will give him the $5B for the wall, in exchange for a clause in the bill that protects the Mueller investigation. $5B is not a lot to pay to ensure the American people get the truth. It would be interesting to see McConnell and Trump try to wriggle out of that one -
I'd love to see that. Call his bluff.
Trump's an idiot. He doesn't believe in compromise, only winning or losing.
I'd like to think they give Trump bupkis. At this point, it's the new House that Trump will have to deal with, and hopefully they'll pass something that re-opens government, includes real border security measures, and makes Trump look like an idiot if he says he doesn't like it.
A DACA deal would have the most sense. Trump would score major points across the aisle, it would have even been more effective had he done it before Christmas. It's also tough for him to let anything move forward that Obama started.
My guess is that he wants the wall started without a DACA deal, then will use them as a bargaining chip to complete it.
(I really wish they would have "Scale the wall" contests on his current test models.)
The last time the Mexicans attacked was at the Alamo. The wall was breached and that didn't work out too well for the leaders of the defense. Maybe we'll get lucky again,
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
The last time the Mexicans attacked was at the Alamo. The wall was breached and that didn't work out too well for the leaders of the defense. Maybe we'll get lucky again,
Not exactly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_War_(1910%E2%80%931919)
McConnell is trying to dodge this. So Pelosi should offer the 5 billion in exchange for a pledge to not nominate any more judges until after the next election.
I wasn't very clear in my post. I meant a public deal with Trump . He's not trustworthy either, but at least it would be in the open.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Would anyone trust a pledge from McTurtle?
This. McConnell is beyond odious. It was bad enough he publicly declared it his mission to make Obama a one term President. Then after the stunt with Garland? I know it’s childish to say but “let them pound sand”. After the New Year they have little leverage.
Welk, you misread my post as well, and also my follow up. But there will have to be some type of deal. This problem won't solve itself when the new Congress convenes.
FilmCarp said:
Welk, you misread my post as well, and also my follow up. But there will have to be some type of deal. This problem won't solve itself when the new Congress convenes.
As long as the deal does not include reduced prison time for him and his kids
No matter how it ends, Trump will declare victory like no one has ever seen in history.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-i-may-be-forced-seal-southern-border-n952591
Now he want to shut down the entire southern border. Reduced prison time should definitely be off the table now!
At what point should the workers who are not getting paid walk off the job?
Tweeted from Office of Personnel Management:
From the Feds, here are sample letters you may use as a guide when working with your creditors during this furlough. If you need legal advice please consult with your personal attorney.
This is a link to their word document: opm.gov/policy-data-ov
Here's some verbiage from one of the sample letters:
As we had agreed in our conversation, I will be able to make regular payments in the amount of $_______. I realize that I will be responsible to pay the remainder of the payments and, when I return to work, I will contact you immediately to work out a plan to take care of the reduced payments. I will keep in touch with you to keep you informed about my income status and I would like to discuss with you the possibility of trading my services to perform maintenance (e.g. painting, carpentry work) in exchange for partial rent payments.
jamie said:
As we had agreed in our conversation, I will be able to make regular payments in the amount of $_______. I realize that I will be responsible to pay the remainder of the payments and, when I return to work, I will contact you immediately to work out a plan to take care of the reduced payments. I will keep in touch with you to keep you informed about my income status and I would like to discuss with you the possibility of trading my services to perform maintenance (e.g. painting, carpentry work) in exchange for partial rent payments.
Does the landlord to whom that is addressed then forward the letter to his Mortgage holder or his Tax Collector and ask for the same consideration?
Pathetic. Can't they put some legislation in place whereby every time the government shuts down, congress and the president also don't get paid, but unlike federal workers they won't get back-pay once the situation is resolved. Or, if that is too hard, just abandon the rule that critical employees still have to show up for work. We"ll see how many shutdowns happen when it also stops security detail of president and congressional leaders, or if the TSA stops working and all airports have to shut down. Very few I predict.
basil said:
Pathetic. Can't they put some legislation in place whereby every time the government shuts down, congress and the president also don't get paid, but unlike federal workers they won't get back-pay once the situation is resolved. Or, if that is too hard, just abandon the rule that critical employees still have to show up for work. We"ll see how many shutdowns happen when it also stops security detail of president and congressional leaders, or if the TSA stops working and all airports have to shut down. Very few I predict.
Of course they can. But do you expect them to act against their own self interest?
Then, again, Donald says ht gives his money away to charity.... probably the Trump Foundation.
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Will one side budge? It's a fascinating stalemate situation.
How and when will it end?
Dems support money to go to security, but NOT for the wall.
Trumps wants his wall.
What is really dumb is that Trump could of had 20 billion with a DACA deal - that seemed to be a no-brainer. But with Trump's major blunders with separating families and building the tent cities, Dems should really stand their ground and not trust any spending unless we're 100% sure how it's being allocated.