House Committee: Hearing on Free Speech - IDW Member, Bret Weinstein, Testifies

RealityForAll

Bret Weinstein, professor in exile from Evergreen State College, recently gave testimony to

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform on campus free speech issues.  Weinstein has many insightful views on campus free speech.





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drummerboy

oy. again?


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RealityForAll
drummerboy said:
oy. again?

 Bret Weinstein did testify before Congress recently.  Which is news for a number of reasons.


Like  
ml1
drummerboy said:
oy. again?

 yes. they need to keep bringing up the same 4 or 5 incidents to make this seem like a "crisis."


Like  2 Likes
Philip

Unless Jeff Sessions or Donald Trump is going to be called to account for their attacks on freedom of speech, this doesn't seem like a good faith hearing.


Like  1 Like
terp
ml1 said:


drummerboy said:
oy. again?
 yes. they need to keep bringing up the same 4 or 5 incidents to make this seem like a "crisis."

 If you knew anything about Brett Weinstein and what happened at Evergreen, you'd realize how one would see this post as particularly douchey.   Especially, from someone who often questions why people don't like Political Correctness by saying things like I don't see why its so bad not to hurt someone's feelings.   So, then we have a real Progressive, a real lefty, someone who had a history of actively fighting racism, get physically threatened and forced to resign(his wife as well) for refusing to participate in a racist event, and you couldn't give a ****. 

Let's see what happens to Suzanna Danuta Walters, a  tenured professor of Women's Gender Studies at Northeastern.  She writes "Why can't I hate Men" in the Washington Post.   From the piece:

Seen in this indisputably true context, it seems logical to hate men. I can’t lie, I’ve always had a soft spot for the radical feminist smackdown, for naming the problem in no uncertain terms. I’ve rankled at the “but we don’t hate men” protestations of generations of would-be feminists and found the “men are not the problem, this system is” obfuscation too precious by half.

But, of course, the criticisms of this blanket condemnation of men — from transnational feminists who decry such glib universalism to U.S. women of color who demand an intersectional perspective — are mostly on the mark. These critics rightly insist on an analysis of male power as institutional, not narrowly personal or individual or biologically based in male bodies. Growing movements to challenge a masculinity built on domination and violence and to engage boys and men in feminism are both gratifying and necessary. Please continue.
So, in this moment, here in the land of legislatively legitimated toxic masculinity, is it really so illogical to hate men? For all the power of #MeToo and #TimesUp and the women’s marches, only a relatively few men have been called to task, and I’ve yet to see a mass wave of prosecutions or even serious recognition of wrongdoing. On the contrary, cries of “witch hunt” and the plotted resurrection of celebrity offenders came quick on the heels of the outcry over endemic sexual harassment and violence. But we’re not supposed to hate them because . . . #NotAllMen. I love Michelle Obama as much as the next woman, but when they have gone low for all of human history, maybe it’s time for us to go all Thelma and Louise and Foxy Brown on their collective butts.

The world has little place for feminist anger. Women are supposed to support, not condemn, offer succor not dismissal. We’re supposed to feel more empathy for your fear of being called a harasser than we are for the women harassed. We are told he’s with us and #NotHim. But, truly, if he were with us, wouldn’t this all have ended a long time ago? If he really were with us, wouldn’t he reckon that one good way to change structural violence and inequity would be to refuse the power that comes with it?

So men, if you really are #WithUs and would like us to not hate you for all the millennia of woe you have produced and benefited from, start with this: Lean out so we can actually just stand up without being beaten down. Pledge to vote for feminist women only. Don’t run for office. Don’t be in charge of anything. Step away from the power. We got this. And please know that your crocodile tears won’t be wiped away by us anymore. We have every right to hate you. You have done us wrong. #BecausePatriarchy. It is long past time to play hard for Team Feminism. And win.



Like  
DaveSchmidt

We’re no longer just telling you what you believe, ml1. We’re also telling you what you do or don’t know.


Like  
terp
DaveSchmidt said:
We’re no longer just telling you what you believe, ml1. We’re also telling you what you do or don’t know.

 Do you have a study to prove the prevalence of this?  I'm responding to a post where ml1 is assigning motivation of others.


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DaveSchmidt
terp said:

 Do you have a study to prove the prevalence of this?  I'm responding to a post where ml1 is assigning motivation of others.

What I have is ml1’s comment in another thread that he disliked when strangers told him what he believed. I also have someone telling him, “If you knew anything about Bret Weinstein.” That was all I needed to dedicate a post to him. I hope he liked it.


Like  1 Like
ml1
terp said:


DaveSchmidt said:
We’re no longer just telling you what you believe, ml1. We’re also telling you what you do or don’t know.
 Do you have a study to prove the prevalence of this?  I'm responding to a post where ml1 is assigning motivation of others.

I'm just observing that the same handful of incidents are trotted out again and again. I'm not minimizing the Weinstein incident. It was terrible. 

But there are thousands of colleges and millions of students and faculty. 

If there was a free speech "crisis" there would be thousands of these incidents, not dozens.  


Like  1 Like
terp
DaveSchmidt said:


terp said:

 Do you have a study to prove the prevalence of this?  I'm responding to a post where ml1 is assigning motivation of others.
What I have is ml1’s comment in another thread that he disliked when strangers told him what he believed. I also have someone telling him, “If you knew anything about Bret Weinstein.” That was all I needed to dedicate a post to him. I hope he liked it.

 Lol  You dedicated a post to him?!?!


Like  
RealityForAll
DaveSchmidt said:


terp said:

 Do you have a study to prove the prevalence of this?  I'm responding to a post where ml1 is assigning motivation of others.
What I have is ml1’s comment in another thread that he disliked when strangers told him what he believed. I also have someone telling him, “If you knew anything about Bret Weinstein.” That was all I needed to dedicate a post to him. I hope he liked it.

 In that other thread I used words of qualification twice in that sentence including the following: "IMHO" and "apparently".  And then for ml1 to conclude that I'm telling him what he thinks after I clearly point out this is my opinion and based on the apparent facts is disingenuous.


Finally why would you get involved in all this?  Just so you know, I did not respond to ml1's spurious claim (in the other thread) because it was so ridiculous on its face.


Like  
RealityForAll
ml1 said:


terp said:

DaveSchmidt said:
We’re no longer just telling you what you believe, ml1. We’re also telling you what you do or don’t know.
 Do you have a study to prove the prevalence of this?  I'm responding to a post where ml1 is assigning motivation of others.
I'm just observing that the same handful of incidents are trotted out again and again. I'm not minimizing the Weinstein incident. It was terrible. 
But there are thousands of colleges and millions of students and faculty. 
If there was a free speech "crisis" there would be thousands of these incidents, not dozens.  

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses.  The chilling effect's very nature is not going to create Free Speech incidents but rather is going to force people to self-censor.  


Like  
terp

As stated on the other thread, I don't think the government is going to crack down on our 1st amendment rights.  I think its more likely that societal pressure will censor people.  

Professors have become more and more liberal on college campuses.  You can promote leftist dogma even if it calls out half of humanity simply for one chromosome(See Walters article above).  But if you challenge this dogma your are censured, risk your job, your character will be attacked.  I mean people on this board attacked Jordan Peterson's character without knowing a thing about him.  

Why is it that comedians are refusing to play college campuses?  Is it a crisis? I don't know.  I think that's more of a strawman.  It does seem like maybe there is a trend and it is a disturbing one.  




Like  
DaveSchmidt
RealityForAll said:

Finally why would you get involved in all this?  

Each night before I go to bed: MOL
Whisper a little prayer for more MOL
To hell with bars, it’s fun
Yes ’twas dedicated to that ml1


Like  
terp

BTW: The interesting thing about these IDW guys are that they don't agree on much.   They just agree on the fact that issues need to be discussed openly.  For instance, Gad Saad who considers himself friends with and respects Jordan Peterson was throwing serious shade at Jordan.  This pissed a lot of people off, but he was like "Hey I like Jordan, but I agree with everything".  And that's that. 

PS  Here is Gad Saad talking about the Walters article above.  He apparently didn't think much of it:



Like  
DaveSchmidt
RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 

In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:

And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities


Like  
ml1
DaveSchmidt said:


RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities

 I admire your tenacity in trying to get people to pay attention to this. 


Like  
drummerboy

The IDW hasn't been laughed out of existence yet?


Like  1 Like
DaveSchmidt
terp said:

I mean people on this board attacked Jordan Peterson's character without knowing a thing about him.

Two, maybe three people. It was a crisis of character assassination. 


Like  
sprout
terp said:
 I mean people on this board attacked Jordan Peterson's character without knowing a thing about him.  

IIRC, it was that you posted about his ridiculous claims of grant award discrimination without knowing a thing about how grant awards work.


Like  
terp
ml1 said:


DaveSchmidt said:

RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities
 I admire your tenacity in trying to get people to pay attention to this. 

 Thanks. I admire your tenacity in ignoring it.  Perhaps when the 500th campus has to close because a professor won't toe the line, you'll think there might be a story there. 


Like  
terp
DaveSchmidt said:


terp said:

I mean people on this board attacked Jordan Peterson's character without knowing a thing about him.
Two, maybe three people. It was a crisis of character assassination. 

 Well on this little corner of the internet, there were probably about 10 people who upon hearing about an original hit piece and the challenge to it, ran out and tried to find cliff notes on why this person should be hated and continue to have their character assassinated.  That is really a great anecdote on how this kind of thing works. 

If you look wider, you will see that the hit pieces continue to roll in.   Lucky for people here, there was a lot to work with. 




Like  
terp
DaveSchmidt said:


RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities

 The link doesn't work


Like  
ml1
terp said:


ml1 said:

DaveSchmidt said:

RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities
 I admire your tenacity in trying to get people to pay attention to this. 
 Thanks. I admire your tenacity in ignoring it.  Perhaps when the 500th campus has to close because a professor won't toe the line, you'll think there might be a story there. 

 there's a huge amount of ground between ignoring and believing this is a crisis 


Like  
RealityForAll
ml1 said:


terp said:

ml1 said:

DaveSchmidt said:

RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities
 I admire your tenacity in trying to get people to pay attention to this. 
 Thanks. I admire your tenacity in ignoring it.  Perhaps when the 500th campus has to close because a professor won't toe the line, you'll think there might be a story there. 
 there's a huge amount of ground between ignoring and believing this is a crisis 

 IIRC you are the one who used the word "crisis" first.  


Like  
RealityForAll
PVW said:
Unless Jeff Sessions or Donald Trump is going to be called to account for their attacks on freedom of speech, this doesn't seem like a good faith hearing.

 I believe your post is a definitional example of "whataboutism".


Like  
terp
ml1 said: 
 there's a huge amount of ground between ignoring and believing this is a crisis 

 And there's a huge amount of ground between an actual argument and a straw man. 


Like  
RealityForAll
ml1 said:


DaveSchmidt said:

RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities
 I admire your tenacity in trying to get people to pay attention to this. 

 Thanks for your kind words.


Like  
sprout
terp said:


DaveSchmidt said:

RealityForAll said:

Part of the Free Speech crisis is the fact that many students and professors are cowed into silence.  This has created a chilling effect on free speech on college campuses. 
In case you missed it in past threads where it was linked, here’s a 2016 report on the topic from PEN America:
And Campus for All: Diversity, Inclusion and Free Speech at U.S. Universities
 The link doesn't work

That link worked for me. 

Maybe try this:

https://pen.org/and-campus-for-all-diversity-inclusion-and-free-speech-at-u-s-universities/


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