GOP2020: What Becomes Of The Collaborators Post-Trump?

Anticipating, and hopeful, that this 4-year national (international?) nightmare may end in a few months, my thoughts have turned to the "collaborators" in this dangerous period. Trump, as any NY-area adult has known for decades, is a buffoon, albeit a very dangerous one when fat-dumb-happy-misogynist Americans elect him to the highest office because of their hatred of perhaps the most competent candidate in recent history, HRC. But the hateful scumbag could not have done half the damage he's done without the collaborators, cowardly Senate Republicans and the ***-licking AG he'd dreamed of since he was "betrayed" by the equally-reprehensible Jeff Sessions, who notably added white-supremacist Stephen Miller to the toxic mix.

Without getting even more long-winded, I wonder what becomes of the collaborators in a post-Trump-presidency world: 

Do they snap back to a relatively-sane conservative bloc?

Are they forever tainted by association and complicity?

Are they humiliated enough to slink back into relative anonymity?

Do they continue down the Trumpist path with "leaders" like Tom Cotton et al?


"To the American reader, references to Vichy France, East Germany, fascists, and Communists may seem over-the-top, even ludicrous. But dig a little deeper, and the analogy makes sense."


The late Harvard scholar Stanley Hoffmann had firsthand knowledge of the subject—as a child, he and his mother hid from the Nazis in Lamalou-les-Bains, a village in the south of France. But he was modest about his own conclusions, noting that “a careful historian would have—almost—to write a huge series of case histories; for there seem to have been almost as many collaborationisms as there were proponents or practitioners of collaboration.” Still, Hoffmann made a stab at classification, beginning with a division of collaborators into “voluntary” and “involuntary.” Many people in the latter group had no choice. Forced into a “reluctant recognition of necessity,” they could not avoid dealing with the Nazi occupiers who were running their country…

Hoffmann further sorted the more enthusiastic “voluntary” collaborators into two additional categories. In the first were those who worked with the enemy in the name of “national interest,” rationalizing collaboration as something necessary for the preservation of the French economy, or French culture—though of course many people who made these arguments had other professional or economic motives, too. In the second were the truly active ideological collaborators: people who believed that prewar republican France had been weak or corrupt and hoped that the Nazis would strengthen it, people who admired fascism, and people who admired Hitler…

Hoffmann observed that many of those who became ideological collaborators were landowners and aristocrats, “the cream of the top of the civil service, of the armed forces, of the business community,” people who perceived themselves as part of a natural ruling class that had been unfairly deprived of power under the left-wing governments of France in the 1930s. Equally motivated to collaborate were their polar opposites, the “social misfits and political deviants” who would, in the normal course of events, never have made successful careers of any kind. What brought these groups together was a common conclusion that, whatever they had thought about Germany before June 1940, their political and personal futures would now be improved by aligning themselves with the occupiers…

To the American reader, references to Vichy France, East Germany, fascists, and Communists may seem over-the-top, even ludicrous. But dig a little deeper, and the analogy makes sense. The point is not to compare Trump to Hitler or Stalin; the point is to compare the experiences of high-ranking members of the American Republican Party, especially those who work most closely with the White House, to the experiences of Frenchmen in 1940, or of East Germans in 1945, or of Czesław Miłosz in 1947. These are experiences of people who are forced to accept an alien ideology or a set of values that are in sharp conflict with their own.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/


GL2 said:


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/

 This is an excellent (albeit long) read


Agree. Really puts things in historical context.


This does illustrate how important it is to not only vote Trump out this November, but also as many of his enablers as possible. Go vote, volunteer, donate, or whatever you can do to help. Most of us know how important it is, but when history is written about this shameful period in American history, it will be that much clearer.


GL2 said:

Agree. Really puts things in historical context.

seems as though there is one important difference here and now.  Even if Trump loses in November, Trumpism will still be alive and well in the minds, hearts, guts, and spleens of 50-60 million Americans who aren't going anywhere.  Those tens of millions of people will be electing members of the Senate and House, as well as state and local officials.  There is absolutely no guarantee that the sickness can be cured any time in our immediate future.


ml1 said:

GL2 said:

Agree. Really puts things in historical context.

seems as though there is one important difference here and now.  Even if Trump loses in November, Trumpism will still be alive and well in the minds, hearts, guts, and spleens of 50-60 million Americans who aren't going anywhere.  Those tens of millions of people will be electing members of the Senate and House, as well as state and local officials.  There is absolutely no guarantee that the sickness can be cured any time in our immediate future.

I am not sure I agree. How would you define "Trumpism"?


basil said:

I am not sure I agree. How would you define "Trumpism"?

 the racism, the misogyny, the xenophobia, the rejection of science, learning and experts, the conspiracy nutterism, and the desire to do anything no matter how destructive (even to themselves) as long as it owns the libs.

Basically the Republican Party post-Tea Party.


Some will be voted out, some not.  But they will overwhelmingly all be just fine.  There won't be a shortage of corporations willing to pay big money to former politicians to do their bidding.  


Think about Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc... they are rich men enjoying their retirement never having suffered any consequences.  


Red_Barchetta said:

Some will be voted out, some not.  But they will overwhelmingly all be just fine.  There won't be a shortage of corporations willing to pay big money to former politicians to do their bidding.  


Think about Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc... they are rich men enjoying their retirement never having suffered any consequences.  

 I doubt either the Democratic Party or the pundit class would ever consider consequences for these people.  Nobody held the Bush Admin accountable.  War crimes, torture, lying the country into a disastrous war weren't anything to be concerned about. Just honorable men and women with different opinions.  Just politics after all.


ml1 said:

basil said:

I am not sure I agree. How would you define "Trumpism"?

 the racism, the misogyny, the xenophobia, the rejection of science, learning and experts, the conspiracy nutterism, and the desire to do anything no matter how destructive (even to themselves) as long as it owns the libs.

Basically the Republican Party post-Tea Party.

 A couple of articles recently have focused on the Never Trump former republicans such as the Lincoln Project guys. In a Trump loss, do they fight for the party label, cede it to the groups you name above, or does something else happen?

Clearly, Trump doesn't slink off into the sunset. He'll still have a giant platform for his giant ego.


This latest ******** regarding Roger Stone's purchased silence makes me feel like Jesse Pinkman, in desperation about Walter White: "He can't keep getting away with it!" But he does.


GL2 said:

 A couple of articles recently have focused on the Never Trump former republicans such as the Lincoln Project guys. In a Trump loss, do they fight for the party label, cede it to the groups you name above, or does something else happen?

Clearly, Trump doesn't slink off into the sunset. He'll still have a giant platform for his giant ego.

 they have no choice but to cede to the voters who come out in GOP primaries. And those are the Trumpist base.

The people like Joe Biden who seem to think Trump is an aberration, and that we can go back to "normal" if we beat him are sorely mistaken IMHO.  If Trump is such an outlier, how did he get himself elected? (Electoral College yeah, I know.  But he got 60+ million votes)  I've always seen Trump not as some weird freak accident, but as a guy who saw that the parade was already underway and got himself in front of it.

Our country is badly broken right now in a lot of ways, and just getting rid of one guy isn't by itself going to fix it.  Even getting rid of Trump and flipping 60 Senate seats won't fix it unless the heretofore feckless Democratic Party doesn't think winning the election is itself the finish line.  If Democrats don't do something to address the deeper seated problems of systemic racism, income inequality, inadequate social safety net, etc., we'll be looking at something worse than Trump that follows them.  Which is, a competent right wing ideologue with Trump's authoritarian nature.


What happens to the collaborators will depend on age and status. McConnell is 78, won't want to serve under a Democrat on his way out and then there is Ann Coulter's comment:

"The lovely Amy McGrath is a Marine Corps veteran. The average donation to her campaign is $36," Coulter tweeted. "Mitch McConnell is a broken-down old man owed by cheap labor lobbyists. #DefeatMcConnell"

If he's defeated I'll buy a bottle of Wild Turkey, in memory of Janis Joplin and enjoy Bluegrass again.


ml1 said:

GL2 said:

 A couple of articles recently have focused on the Never Trump former republicans such as the Lincoln Project guys. In a Trump loss, do they fight for the party label, cede it to the groups you name above, or does something else happen?

Clearly, Trump doesn't slink off into the sunset. He'll still have a giant platform for his giant ego.

 they have no choice but to cede to the voters who come out in GOP primaries. And those are the Trumpist base.

The people like Joe Biden who seem to think Trump is an aberration, and that we can go back to "normal" if we beat him are sorely mistaken IMHO.  If Trump is such an outlier, how did he get himself elected? (Electoral College yeah, I know.  But he got 60+ million votes)  I've always seen Trump not as some weird freak accident, but as a guy who saw that the parade was already underway and got himself in front of it.

Our country is badly broken right now in a lot of ways, and just getting rid of one guy isn't by itself going to fix it.  Even getting rid of Trump and flipping 60 Senate seats won't fix it unless the heretofore feckless Democratic Party doesn't think winning the election is itself the finish line.  If Democrats don't do something to address the deeper seated problems of systemic racism, income inequality, inadequate social safety net, etc., we'll be looking at something worse than Trump that follows them.  Which is, a competent right wing ideologue with Trump's authoritarian nature.

 Rather dark...You gotta start somewhere, and the first logical step is dump Trump and flip the Senate. Then, start working on the issues important to you, me and the lamppost. But until we get step 1 done, it's pointless.


Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Rather dark...You gotta start somewhere, and the first logical step is dump Trump and flip the Senate. Then, start working on the issues important to you, me and the lamppost. But until we get step 1 done, it's pointless.

 it's a first step.  But Trump himself is a symptom, and not the disease.


ml1 said:

 it's a first step.  But Trump himself is a symptom, and not the disease.

 How will the changing American demographic affect that? When the Country is no longer majority White will that disease continue? Will it take a different form?

But in the short run

GL2 said:


Without getting even more long-winded, I wonder what becomes of the collaborators in a post-Trump-presidency world: 

Do they snap back to a relatively-sane conservative bloc?

Are they forever tainted by association and complicity?

Are they humiliated enough to slink back into relative anonymity?

Do they continue down the Trumpist path with "leaders" like Tom Cotton et al?



XX All of the above.


ml1 said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Rather dark...You gotta start somewhere, and the first logical step is dump Trump and flip the Senate. Then, start working on the issues important to you, me and the lamppost. But until we get step 1 done, it's pointless.

 it's a first step.  But Trump himself is a symptom, and not the disease.

 Ya gotta be somewhat inspired by the mainstreaming of BLM. And if my 30-something kids are as take-no-prisoners as they and their cohort seem to be, they (and we?) see Biden as a port in the storm rather than a return to the usual dem politics.


GL2 said:

 Ya gotta be somewhat inspired by the mainstreaming of BLM. And if my 30-something kids are as take-no-prisoners as they and their cohort seem to be, they (and we?) see Biden as a port in the storm rather than a return to the usual dem politics.

 I think all this is true an encouraging.  But our kids' generation is going to need to be prepared to fight this fight for 30 years or so and not give up.  They are going to need to outlast the baby boomers.


The fact remains that the R's have locked in their electoral rigging for the foreseeable future. With the federal courts deformed by McConnell, they will increasingly favor R's manipulations of the electoral process.

If the Dems don't have court reform as one of their very top priorities, we're effed. They have to eliminate the filibuster, enlarge SCOTUS, make DC a state, and enlarge the federal courts.

Anything less and we'll get nothing.


In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.