Game of Thrones Season 5 for Book Readers (Spoilers)

I didn't see another GoT thread on here, so I wanted to create a place for people who have read the books (through 5) to discuss the current and past seasons of the show and speculate on where this is all headed.


There's just one problem with that... I read Dances with Dragons so long ago I have no idea what's in the book any more, compared with the show! It's very confusing.


I know!  But it comes back sometimes with the somewhat major deviations in the show, like killing Mance in the premiere 


Yeah, I'm bummed to be losing Mance. Why couldn't they have saved someone in spite of the books instead, like, say, Ygritte? Just kidding.

Anyway, I have felt pretty sure for sometime that Martin is working his way toward a grand reunion of just a handful of significant characters in King's Landing when Dany comes to claim her throne, but some major monkey wrenches have been thrown into the works. For one thing, my very favorite character appears to be dead at the end of Dances with Dragons, barring an absolute miracle. And I'm frustrated at Dany's ongoing incompetence as a leader... and she's not in very good shape either when last seen in the books.

I also find myself wondering what the hell is going on in the books with the young man who is claiming to be yet another Targaryen (can't remember his name right now). Is that a red herring, or what?

I have a problem with the books, generally speaking, in that Martin seems desperately to need a better editor. Often the books just wander along aimlessly with all the characters spinning their wheels and no real progress on any front. The show is actually an improvement when it comes to pacing and content that keeps my attention.

Are we trying to avoid spoilers at all? If not, maybe you should put "Spoiler Alert" into the thread title before we really get into it. (ETA: Oops, never mind. You already did.)


If, in fact, anyone else feels like joining. smile


How do I change the title of the thread?


Oh. Oops, I forgot it doesn't seem to be possible at the moment. One of the things they are working on.


Pretty soon it's not going to matter whether we've read the books or not. GRRM, Benioff, and Weiss have already made it known that they will surpass the books, as well as make changes to the books, during this season and the next. Without saying who, they have said that some characters who are alive in the books will be killed in the show, and vice-versa. (We've already seen some deviation for Mance and some of the other characters, obviously.)


DO we know that GRRM and B/W will both end up at the same place?  



BubbaTerp said:

DO we know that GRRM and B/W will both end up at the same place?  

 GRRM said quite some time ago that he has given B & W the roadmap for the entire story, because he knew they would finish the show before he finishes the books. I suppose that doesn't technically mean they intend to follow the roadmap, but I think it's probably safe to assume that the overall story will remain intact even though the details differ.


I can go along with that.  For instance J+L+R is a thing, and will likely be confirmed on both platforms.

J+L+R?

SPOILER ALERT for those who have not read the books.

You have been warned.



I guess it's possible to make changes to some characters' trajectories without changing the overall direction and conclusion of the books, but I hope they don't go too far. Although, now that I'm thinking about it, the books have become very trying for me to read. They are simply too long and contain far too much extraneous junk. The show is more streamlined and easier to follow, for me.

My biggest wish is that Jon Snow isn't either dead or a White Walker. At the end of Dances with Dragons it wasn't looking good for him at all. And I really, really, REALLY don't want Arya dead or zombified. LOL I don't love the idea of her becoming a trained killer able to change her face at will, but it's better than a lot of GofT alternatives. And Bran is apparently being trained as some kind of magic wise man from the woods, complete with warging ability.

I keep waiting for a few things to happen... I want the wolf Nymeria to return, because Arya simply drove her into the woods, and the books refer to bands of dire wolves in the forest, led by a strong female. Dany has Drogon, why not a powerful dire wolf for Arya? And I wonder why Bran is the only Stark child to be able to warg into his wolf. Sansa's wolf is gone, but the others?

I have wondered for awhile if Jon Snow might really be the child of Ned Stark's sister Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen. I've seen many guesses that make sense, but to me this is the most interesting one, as it would make Jon a serious contender for the throne. But I've also wondered what would happen if he and Dany were to get together.

Gendry is on my mind a lot. As a surviving child of Robert Baratheon, he might have a very interesting future.


The only thing that bothers me (a little) is the part about different characters being killed off --or not-- in the show vs. in the books. Assuming this is true, it'd hard for me to see how this wouldn't spoil the books when/if they every get written. Seems like if they kill off a character in the show, then we will know that character is not going to play an important role in the end, whether he or she is alive or not.

Of course, these guys have shown that they are more inventive and creative than I am, so who knows how any of it will go....


I suppose most of us who watch the show realize all bets are off for consistency at this point, as the show catches up to the books and passes them. Be nice if Martin could write faster, but he has his process.

It would be great if they could avoid killing off anyone who is supposed to be essential in the books. That would be extremely confusing.


*** POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT ***



*** POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT ***


It's also been ages for me since I've read the books, so things are fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure than Jon was able to to warg into his dire wolf, Ghost, and had demonstrated that on several occasions. In fact, I've convinced myself that that's how will survive the assassination -- by warging into Ghost... Since they interred his body into the ice Wall, it should be well-preserved for possible resurrection...

I'm also pretty convinced that Jon is the love child of Stark and Targaryen and, thus, has a pretty damn good claim on the throne and that there will be a final showdown between Daenarys and her dragons, representing Fire and Jon and the White Walkers or something else, representing Ice, hence "A Song of Fire and Ice." 

Of course, I could also be completely and utterly wrong grin

Just wished that damned GRRM would finish the books already!


Cheers,


Blueheeler


PeggyC said:

J+L+R?

SPOILER ALERT for those who have not read the books.

You have been warned.



I guess it's possible to make changes to some characters' trajectories without changing the overall direction and conclusion of the books, but I hope they don't go too far. Although, now that I'm thinking about it, the books have become very trying for me to read. They are simply too long and contain far too much extraneous junk. The show is more streamlined and easier to follow, for me.

My biggest wish is that Jon Snow isn't either dead or a White Walker. At the end of Dances with Dragons it wasn't looking good for him at all. And I really, really, REALLY don't want Arya dead or zombified. LOL I don't love the idea of her becoming a trained killer able to change her face at will, but it's better than a lot of GofT alternatives. And Bran is apparently being trained as some kind of magic wise man from the woods, complete with warging ability.

I keep waiting for a few things to happen... I want the wolf Nymeria to return, because Arya simply drove her into the woods, and the books refer to bands of dire wolves in the forest, led by a strong female. Dany has Drogon, why not a powerful dire wolf for Arya? And I wonder why Bran is the only Stark child to be able to warg into his wolf. Sansa's wolf is gone, but the others?

I have wondered for awhile if Jon Snow might really be the child of Ned Stark's sister Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen. I've seen many guesses that make sense, but to me this is the most interesting one, as it would make Jon a serious contender for the throne. But I've also wondered what would happen if he and Dany were to get together.

Gendry is on my mind a lot. As a surviving child of Robert Baratheon, he might have a very interesting future.

 


Oooo, now I definitely have to go back and read DWD again! That is an excellent thought, about warging into Ghost. I have no idea how I could have forgotten that! In fact, I'm kind of shocked now that I haven't done any searching through the various GofT discussion sites to see the theories on how he survives, because if he doesn't I am going to be HEARTBROKEN. I have my heart set on a reunion between Jon, Arya, and Bran at some point. Sansa can just stay wherever she has landed, unless she does a lot of growing up and learns to love Tyrion.

Yes, that's right. I think Sansa and Tyrion should end up together, despite the forced marriage. Clearly he has feelings for her, and if she had any sense she would have equal regard for him. But she can't see past teenaged girl angst and shallow concerns like bearing beautiful blonde children to Joffrey, no matter how horrible he was, and eating lemon cakes. WAKE UP, SANSA! Honestly, I hope Littlefinger doesn't ruin her.

A fun piece of trivia. The actress who plays Sansa (Sophie Turner, is it?) says fans keep sending her lemon cake because it's her favorite sweet on the show. Only problem is she can't stand the stuff IRL. Love it. Although in a much nicer piece of real life Game-of-Thrones crossover, the actress has adopted the dog that played her dire wolf Lady, which I think is lovely.


I missed episode 2 and 3, should I go ahead and watch this one tonight anyway? I have been dying to watch it!


i'm going to watch it. Wish me luck!!


Watch it. You might be a little confused, but you will catch up as time goes on. Have you read the books? That might help, although there are so many departures in the show that it might just confuse you further!

ETA: So, did you watch? And what did you think??


I think the recent episode confirmed in subtle ways the R+L=J


Couldn't agree more, Bubba.


I'm very worried about the Sansa plot diverging from the books.  Now she'll be exposed to the Wedding Night bedding with Ramsay?  Will Reek/Theon perform his role like in the books?  GROSS.  Will we see the Stannis/Bolton battle the book 5 promised us?


Yes, I'm pretty worried about that, too. I have no clue where all that is heading. I think we are on the verge of shooting past the books in terms of the Battle of Winterfell.


BTW, am I alone in wondering if Daenerys is going to be just as bad as the Mad King Aerys?? Now she's feeding the heads of the great families of the city to her dragons after letting them torch the guys (so far only one, but she seems to think it's a promising tactic). I'm trying to figure out what on earth could turn her into a real leader. I seem to recall that after total disaster strikes at the end of Dances With Dragons she flies off, badly wounded, on Drogon, but I have a lot of difficulty imagine anything good after that.



BubbaTerp said:

I'm very worried about the Sansa plot diverging from the books.  Now she'll be exposed to the Wedding Night bedding with Ramsay?  Will Reek/Theon perform his role like in the books?  GROSS.  Will we see the Stannis/Bolton battle the book 5 promised us?

 Holy freakin' CRAP. I'm horrified by what happened last night. There had better be some serious payback coming around the corner for Sansa and Theon.


Kinda surprised, no one else has a reaction to last night's episode?


Don't even bother, Bubba. We are so far behind on this thread it's almost pointless to try to get the discussion caught up. My last comment was about Sansa's "wedding night" horror, that's how long ago it was!


these GoT threads are dangerous for people, like me who haven't read the books. I thank you for the warnings of SPOILER ALERT. I'll exit now and maybe return after episode 10.


Have you seen the entire show? If so, you really aren't in very much danger regarding spoilers. But if you are a purist and really want to see what's in the books without any danger of spoilers, these threads are probably a mistake for you.

Although, it could take you a decade to get caught up, considering how much extraneous stuff he put into the most recent books. Holy crap.



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