fox and falcon

mrincredible said:
okay, here is a picture of 7 ounces of water in a wine glass. I added the wine bottle for scale, since the glass is pretty large. I did this to understand for myself how much a normal glass of wine looks like. This is about what I would pour for myself.
Lanky, they charge 17 dollars for this portion of wine? I am probably out of touch with what's the norm these days but that seems like a lot. Were there less expensive wines by the glass?

Their business model may preclude them from offering too many inexpensive dining and beverage options. They might not be sustainable if each patron averaged say $25 (15 dollar burger, 10 dollar glass of wine) vs $35 (18 dollar burger, 17 dollar glass of wine). That's kind of a rock bottom price point I randomly came up with. 
I guess I can understand the 18 dollar burger more than a 17 dollar glass of wine.  

 I didn't look at the whites but of the 6 reds offered (if recollection serves, 5 italian and one beaujolais), the prices only ranged between $17 and $19.  Like I said, I would have loved to have remembered the specific wineries / labels so I could see what bottles retail for.  Seems it would be prudent for them to offer some more reasonably-priced glasses.


mrincredible said:
okay, here is a picture of 7 ounces of water in a wine glass. I added the wine bottle for scale, since the glass is pretty large. I did this to understand for myself how much a normal glass of wine looks like. This is about what I would pour for myself.
Lanky, they charge 17 dollars for this portion of wine? I am probably out of touch with what's the norm these days but that seems like a lot. Were there less expensive wines by the glass?

Their business model may preclude them from offering too many inexpensive dining and beverage options. They might not be sustainable if each patron averaged say $25 (15 dollar burger, 10 dollar glass of wine) vs $35 (18 dollar burger, 17 dollar glass of wine). That's kind of a rock bottom price point I randomly came up with. 
I guess I can understand the 18 dollar burger more than a 17 dollar glass of wine.  

 Also to be fair, based on the pour in the in the quartino, it's possible they squeeze 9 oz in there but still...one can get a pretty darn good (I'd argue better) bottle of red at the liquor store for $19 and bring it to any number of restaurants in the area offering food as good.


I never order wine by the glass in a restaurant.  Never know when the bottle was opened, and always priced too high in comparison to bottles.

And really disappointed to hear the burgers are pre-formed.   will probably avoid ordering one.  




I still don't get the "fine dining hamburger" fixation, but I'll paint some picket signs against that liquor mark-up. And I don't even drink wine!


jersey_boy said:
I still don't get the "fine dining hamburger" fixation, but I'll paint some picket signs against that liquor mark-up. And I don't even drink wine!

It's in the same category as fine fried chicken.  I guess it is for people who don't want to go to Popeyes. I always ask Hank Zona for wine-pairings with fried chicken before I  go there.


tjohn said:


jersey_boy said:
I still don't get the "fine dining hamburger" fixation, but I'll paint some picket signs against that liquor mark-up. And I don't even drink wine!
It's in the same category as fine fried chicken.  I guess it is for people who don't want to go to Popeyes. I always ask Hank Zona for wine-pairings with fried chicken before I  go there.

you can scoff.  But the fried chicken at Modine ain't Popeye's.


boomie said:
And $17 is the lower priced wine option.   I work in NYC and go out there a lot.  Thats high even there - for a casual restaurant.

 That's the question here. They've advertised themselves as a 3-4 times a week place, and I would presume that means it's fine to go in there with a t-shirt and jeans on a Wednesday night. So for two people to pop in there after work, grab a burger and a glass of wine each before seeing a movie at SOPAC with tax and tip you're looking at close to $100.

And I just knew they were going to be charging crazy prices for the wine by the glass, just based on the burger, which as I said is only a gauge as to what they think their clientele expects. I'm not saying a burger can't be worth $18, the burgers at Flip Boutique in Atlanta are definitely worth $18 (though they only charge $11, it's just a marker for me that I simply can't afford to eat AND drink there except on special occasions or if I have a gift card. And the problem I have isn't that it's expensive, it's that it won't be long before everywhere is like that, and I simply won't be able to go out at all. What's the betting that when Luna Stella opens in Maplewood, it'll occupy the same price point?


Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  


boomie said:
Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  

And if you go to a nice restaurant for dinner and there's a burger on the menu, you don't expect that they took a frozen ground meat patty and tossed it on a griddle.  There's an expectation that it's a freshly ground, high end cut of meat, preferably sourced from a purveyor who isn't getting it from some enormous factory halfway across the country. 


Whatever. As long as the neat nachos are under $30, I guess it's okay.


Boomie reminds me what I go for: the nachos.


I have to say - for some reason - I like the name.  One of my "go to" burger place in the City is Burger and Barrels - their BASH burger is $21.  So any place that's on par with that in the $15-20 range is ok in my book.


ml1 said:


boomie said:
Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  
And if you go to a nice restaurant for dinner and there's a burger on the menu, you don't expect that they took a frozen ground meat patty and tossed it on a griddle.  There's an expectation that it's a freshly ground, high end cut of meat, preferably sourced from a purveyor who isn't getting it from some enormous factory halfway across the country. 

 I agree.


ridski said:
Whatever. As long as the neat nachos are under $30, I guess it's okay.

Neat nachos!    question 


The yelp reviews are also pretty humorous - I have to think that the first 2 (from NY, NY and Brooklyn) and probably all 4 are restaurant sponsored....

https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-fox-and-falcon-south-orange?osq=fox+and+falcon


Speaking of the wine prices, somehow a $19 glass ended up on our aforementioned ~$90 tab — yikesamundo.

They stay below the $20 threshold that would really make folks blush (pun intended), but methinks they should massage their $17-$19 range downward. Or at least have a 2-3 hour happy hour where some glasses are half price or something.


boomie said:


ml1 said:

boomie said:
Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  
And if you go to a nice restaurant for dinner and there's a burger on the menu, you don't expect that they took a frozen ground meat patty and tossed it on a griddle.  There's an expectation that it's a freshly ground, high end cut of meat, preferably sourced from a purveyor who isn't getting it from some enormous factory halfway across the country. 
 I agree.

 I also agree. At $18, they're catering to food snobs.


lanky said:
The yelp reviews are also pretty humorous - I have to think that the first 2 (from NY, NY and Brooklyn) and probably all 4 are restaurant sponsored....
https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-fox-and-falcon-south-orange?osq=fox+and+falcon

 Yes, seems to be the new-restaurant playbook these days. At least early F & F reviews aren’t ridiculously over the top like 1South’s were.


jersey_boy said:


boomie said:

ml1 said:

boomie said:
Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  
And if you go to a nice restaurant for dinner and there's a burger on the menu, you don't expect that they took a frozen ground meat patty and tossed it on a griddle.  There's an expectation that it's a freshly ground, high end cut of meat, preferably sourced from a purveyor who isn't getting it from some enormous factory halfway across the country. 
 I agree.
 I also agree. At $18, they're catering to food snobs.

I'm sensing a lot of reverse snobbery in this discussion.


ml1 said:


jersey_boy said:

boomie said:

ml1 said:

boomie said:
Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  
And if you go to a nice restaurant for dinner and there's a burger on the menu, you don't expect that they took a frozen ground meat patty and tossed it on a griddle.  There's an expectation that it's a freshly ground, high end cut of meat, preferably sourced from a purveyor who isn't getting it from some enormous factory halfway across the country. 
 I agree.
 I also agree. At $18, they're catering to food snobs.
I'm sensing a lot of reverse snobbery in this discussion.

No need to be sensitive.  I'm sure lots of people struggle with wine - hamburger/fried chicken pairings.


tjohn said:


ml1 said:

jersey_boy said:

boomie said:

ml1 said:

boomie said:
Its not that you go to a place for a fine dining burger.   Its that you go to a place for all kinds of things, food, people, music, atmosphere, and while there, decide you want a burger for dinner.  There's nothing wrong with that ya dang food snobs.  
And if you go to a nice restaurant for dinner and there's a burger on the menu, you don't expect that they took a frozen ground meat patty and tossed it on a griddle.  There's an expectation that it's a freshly ground, high end cut of meat, preferably sourced from a purveyor who isn't getting it from some enormous factory halfway across the country. 
 I agree.
 I also agree. At $18, they're catering to food snobs.
I'm sensing a lot of reverse snobbery in this discussion.
No need to be sensitive.  I'm sure lots of people struggle with wine - hamburger/fried chicken pairings.

believe me, it's not a struggle.


and fwiw, I'm absolutely not a food snob.  I like some White Castle or Popeye's popcorn chicken as much as anyone.


ml1 said:
and fwiw, I'm absolutely not a food snob.  I like some White Castle or Popeye's popcorn chicken as much as anyone.

 C'mon man.  That's akin to saying some of my best friends are [insert minority group here].

https://www.theonion.com/william-safire-orders-two-whoppers-junior-1819565735


Burgers of the world, unite!


tjohn said:


ml1 said:
and fwiw, I'm absolutely not a food snob.  I like some White Castle or Popeye's popcorn chicken as much as anyone.
 C'mon man.  That's akin to saying some of my best friends are [insert minority group here].
https://www.theonion.com/william-safire-orders-two-whoppers-junior-1819565735

not the same.  I enjoy food.  full stop.


ml1 said:

full stop.

 That’s what Mr. Creosote said.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:


There you have it. Cassidy's may support this. It is smaller. So I predict in three years, we will be posting about the ambiance of the new "Ostrich and 'possum" restaurant.





 Wouldn't surprise me unless some radical menu changes are made, especially toward lower priced wines and kid offerings.  There were a lot kids and a fair number of wine drinkers in the restaurant last night.  Thankfully no apparent overlap between the two.


Just enjoyed a 1 cent Whopper on the Whopper Detour. 


https://amp.news4jax.com/food/get-a-burger-king-whopper-for-only-a-penny


Now I can afford that $17 glass of wine...  


jimmurphy said:
Just enjoyed a 1 cent Whopper on the Whopper Detour. 


https://amp.news4jax.com/food/get-a-burger-king-whopper-for-only-a-penny



Now I can afford that $17 glass of wine...  

 How was the ambiance?


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