fox and falcon

mrincredible said:

jeffl said:
$14 for a very meager Dewars on the rocks.  That’s disappointing.  

 Did you have it with dinner? If so, how was the food?
I'm not accustomed to ordering liquor when I go out to eat. Is that excessive?

 We had dinner.  Some had the burger which I thought was tasty.  Most didn’t like the pepper fries.  I hope you can get them without the pepper.  

I had bolognese which was tasty but odd.  Nothing but corkscrew pasta even though it was called fettuccini.  No red sauce at all.  Very little sauce period, but it was still tasty.  Small portion. I could have eaten two of them. 

$14 for a shot of Dewars is Four Seasons pricing.  Assuming it was 1.5 ounces of scotch and a handle of Dewars costs $32, the restaurant would collect $462 for that handle of Dewars; 14 times their cost.  

I really hope they make some adjustments because we need it to be good.  But if I have two drinks and it costs $33, including tip, I won’t go there very often.  The only glass of wine less than $17 was a Pinot Grigio for $12.  

I think the Snug has a gas fireplace.

the Snug does have a gas fireplace. It was lovely. 

I went there over the weekend with a few people for dinner.  

They have drinks cocktails for $10.00.  Wine by the glass options were fine and they definitely had a $12.00 (quartino pour) white wine.  

Biggest complaint was how limited the menu is and for at least one it was a challenge to come up with something to order.   All the food was very good.  Service was good.   They do not serve bread which for me is not a big deal but considering how few appetizers they have it would be nice to have something while waiting for the entrees.  

They need more appetizers and desserts.  

And the place was packed.  We did not have a reservation and only got a table because they had a no-show (they had waited 20 minutes).  Both bar areas were packed.  

Four of us had dinner on Sunday. Two liked the burgers, and two of us shared a steak, which for me was more than enough. Really liked the flavor of the roasted brussels sprouts, would like them even more with another 5 minutes' roasting, but that's quibbling. The very delicious cauliflower app I've had before was MIA because of the cauliflower recall. Noise level, despite a fairly large crowd with lots of children, was just right, and the playlist was nice (especially if you like REM). The bartender was lovely. And the Steelers won.

callista said:

j_r said:
Dropped in last night. They have SOMA Reservation IPA and Two Towns on tap, and the bartender was happy to replace a warm one with a pint ($8) from another part of the restaurant -- even though I had finished the warm one before saying something. 
I noticed a $10 pinot grigio quartino on the bar menu. And they are knitter-friendly.

 Is 'knitter friendly' code for something?  

 Not code, literal: you are welcome to sit at the bar and drink & knit

So I went to the snug last night for drinks. Two neat (measured) whiskeys came to about 26 with tip, which isn’t terrible. However, for some reason when my friend tried to order a rum and coke, they couldn’t make that (it was too loud to hear the reason why) so they had to get a third of wine instead. 

The third bartender we asked to turn down the music didn’t ignore us, which was nice.

apple44 said:
From looking at a menu someone posted somewhere, drink prices seem to be all over the place. $14 for that drink is high, but they also have mixed house cocktails for $10, which is low. Am not aware of beer prices.
I often find that unless it's an old-school divey bar, whiskey pours are kind of meager. Ridiculous prices for liquor licenses around here can't help.

 Beers were mostly 7-9 bucks. Decent list of drafts which I wish they'd put online. I didn't feel crass enough to take pictures of the menu.

You could get a bottle or can (not sure which) of Miller High Life for $4 if so inclined.

We went for dinner.  First, it felt exactly like the last two restaurants.  There was not much difference in the look and feel.  Unfortunately, there was not much difference in the service either.  Service from our main waiter was slow at best.  When we have empty drinks for 20-25 minutes, you're missing an opportunity and when it takes another 15-20 minutes to get the drinks once we order them then the service just sucks.

The food was really good but it doesn't make up for high cost and poor service.

We went last night. Service started out strong but toward the end of our meal it tailed off. Our server had three tables seated in rapid succession while we were asking for our check and trying to pay her, so I understand the distraction I guess. She was very knowledgeable about the menu and made some recommendations.

I had the meatball sliders which were tasty. However I wouldn't get them again at the price ($12). I would compare the flavor and quality to a meatball parm sub from Trattoria, but much smaller. A delicious thing I enjoyed, but the price tag was too high for me to try it again. I would try a different app next time.

We also shared the seasonal greens salad which was good and a generous portion.

My wife got the mezzi rigatoni which was good. Not a huge portion, a little bit of heat to it.

I ordered a special which was a pork belly in a red sauce (I don't remember what it was called). Very delicious. I couldn't finish it and am looking forward to heating up the leftovers for breakfast. That was $25. They are considering adding it to the main menu which I thought was a good idea. It's not something I've seen elsewhere nearby.

The other special was a 40 ounce ribeye (they called it a Tomahawk steak) for two with Brussels sprouts and fingering potatoes. $90 for that, which we did not go for.

I had a pint of pilsner and my wife had a Magners cider. 

Our whole dinner ran about $87 without tip. Two apps, two entrees, two pints.

Children's menu: chicken nuggets and fries; burger and fries; pasta with marinara or butter. All were 10-12 simoleons. 

I agree with yahooyahoo that the look of the place hasn't changed. There are new chairs but I don't know if they changed the tables. The lighting and woodwork are all the same. I think it looks nice but I know some others disagree. The music in the main dining room was pretty loud, and we were offered a table in the separate dining room. It was a little quieter but there seemed to be a battle for volume control. It occasionally went up, then would come back down again.

The Snug looks the same and offers the same menu as upstairs. 

I think they're doing some things really well. Overall I thought the food was good. I think they come closer to providing the value for the quality of the food than Ricaltons did, but I still think a couple of items are too pricey. I could see going for a beer and the meatball sliders in the pub if they were like $9. I knowing doesn't seem like a big difference, maybe it's psychological. I'm happy about the beer prices and selection. 

The place was hopping so that's a good sign. I will probably try again in a little while to see if they've added any menu items. It's not going to be a regular place .... I'm too cheap for that.

finally ate there tonight.  got there about 7:15-not very busy.  we split an order of roasted cauliflower to start , very good.  my better half had the vegetarian dish ( gratin) which was also very good.  i opted for the burger, no roll and salad instead of fries.  the salad was a generous portion, the burger was excellent and perfectly cooked at medium rare as requested.  i had two pints of soma ale and my wife had a quartino of vino.  bill with tax and tip was $100.  we both look forward to returning.

It feels like service is ALWAYS the problem.   Are the staff on the lowest pay range with almost no restaurant skills?   Are they not receiving adequate training, and why, knowing this is the problem, or at the very least good service can take a mediocre experience and turn it into a good one, do operators NOT invest in the training needed???  (this is more of a general comment than one specific to F&F)

boomie said:
It feels like service is ALWAYS the problem.   Are the staff on the lowest pay range with almost no restaurant skills?   Are they not receiving adequate training, and why, knowing this is the problem, or at the very least good service can take a mediocre experience and turn it into a good one, do operators NOT invest in the training needed???  (this is more of a general comment than one specific to F&F)

I would guess that finding and retaining good employees is a constant problem for restaurateurs.  It's hard work and you can't really make a career out of being a server.

But wouldn't it be good experience for budding restauranteurs or those going into Hospitality in general?   Why is it that other restaurants have good service while so many do not?  What is missing and how many restaurants have to fail before the investments needed are made?

boomie said:
It feels like service is ALWAYS the problem.   Are the staff on the lowest pay range with almost no restaurant skills?   Are they not receiving adequate training, and why, knowing this is the problem, or at the very least good service can take a mediocre experience and turn it into a good one, do operators NOT invest in the training needed???  (this is more of a general comment than one specific to F&F)

 It's a good question.  Too many operators don't understand that front waiters are the face of the restaurant and more importantly, the primary sales force.  Too many restaurants think of waiters as "order takers" rather than the force behind keeping clientele happy, upselling and turning tables (ultimately what drives profits).  The restaurant group I worked for in college had waiters train (sit in class) for 5 days and then shadow a top waiter for 3 shifts before putting them on the floor.

Unemployment is also significantly down (nationally anyway) so the labor pool has shrunk.

I'm talking about an on going issue, for years.  

Really good waiters rarely go to a new restaurant unless they know the owner or chef.   Most of their income is from tips and not worth giving up a solid job unless they know the new one is at least as good.  And yes, training can play a big role but for a new restaurant but only a steady crowd can keep them.

A place that is always busy will never have a problem hiring and retaining the best.  

So for a place like the Fox and Falcon has to do a lot of training, and there needs to be a lot of oversight for the first few months.   The longer they stay open and has a decent crowd, the better staff members will come.  On a busy Saturday night a good waiter can expect to make several hundred dollars.  When I waited on tables (years ago), I would only do so if I knew I could make a hundred dollars a night (plus the small hourly wage).  Today that number would be much higher.  

And of course there are some places where service is always lousy but either the location, the prices or some amazingly good food item(s) keeps people coming back.  

Just for the record the two nights I ate at the Fox and Falcon, the service was good although it did take longer than expected to get our food (assume that was the fault of  the kitchen).  

To boomie's point, which is really valid-

I also think owners skimp on service, which is a huge mistake. I have never owned a place, but worked in plenty (bar, and floor). What can happen is, you get some good folks and the place doesn't take off-- you can't keep them cause of low tip amounts during ramp up. If i ever open a  place, I would budget a minimum take home guarantee for all servers for the first 3 months. Build the loyalty and the business- I think it'd be well worth it

But beyond that the other issue is just lack of training and experience. It's like having a great sound system with crummy speakers- what's the point? (I realize how I just dated myself).

drewdix said:
It's like having a great sound system with crummy speakers- what's the point? (I realize how I just dated myself).

 In your defense, you didn't say "a great HiFi".

I agree with the many previous posters about the importance of good waitstaff.  I think anyone opening a restaurant in SOMA should consult with Fred at Arturo's.  The staff is predominantly teens, who have been well trained and provide excellent service.  In my opinion the only place in the area with better service is Lorena's.

Some of the best service in the area is at the Trats. Staff are always alert, friendly, helpful, and quick, especially given how young they mostly are. Lorena's is a whole different level of dining, of course.

kthnry said:
Some of the best service in the area is at the Trats. Staff are always alert, friendly, helpful, and quick, especially given how young they mostly are. Lorena's is a whole different level of dining, of course.

 I assume you mean the one in MW because the one in SO is inconsistent at best.  

If I were opening a business around here I would ask the folks at Arturo's how they get such amazing wait staff.   It helps that the food is amazing.    Has anyone had an Italian wine at Fox and Falcon they thought was amazing?  Picking a predominantly Italian list for this place seems like a poor choice.   Perhaps they can get a better mark up without people realizing they are being had.    

Seems to be a mix of recos here and on FB about who the owner and chef should be seeking out for advice. Both are SOMa residents, I imagine they've been to Arturo's and other local places. The owner is a partner of successful places in the city and JC, the chef has been at places such as Del Posto and Maialino. Maybe they need some time to evolve, but perhaps this just isn't going to be a place that appeals to everyone, just as Arturo's has folks who don't like the wait or think the food is better somewhere else. If F&F gets enough repeat business from SOMa residents, gets some good media reviews and draws folks from other towns they should do very well.

Agree with Apple..  I am one of those who has given up on Arturo's due to the wait times.  one time we waited 40 minutes for a table only to be told they were not making any more pizzas for the night and kitchen was backed up so it would be a while.  

Arturo’s  front of house is one of the best in our area. I talked with Fred about this, and I’m paraphrasing- basically he hires based on attitude and willingness to learn. That trumps previous experience.  And the training is rigorous. 

I finally made it to Fox & Falcon on Friday. The place was hopping. I don't know if we just chose the wrong table, but people who came in after us were getting food long before us. We had to wait over a half hour for our appetizer (meatball sliders) to arrive and over an hour and a half before our entrees (point pleasant skate), a pasta dish and a side of roasted brussels sprouts. There were a couple of times where we had no drinks as well though I did enjoy the Kane High Head IPA when I finally got it. My wife asked for a lychee martini and ended up with I'm not sure what the drink was, but it had no lychees and a lime garnish.  I liked the sliders, but was disappointed with the brussels sprouts. There was some vinegar taste to them that I didn't enjoy. The skate and pasta were fine, but not awe inspiring and the waiter put the wrong entrees in front of us without asking who is having the fish. I'm guessing they don't offer dessert or coffee, because I didn't see a menu online and the waiter rushed the check over once we finished our entrees. 

jfinnegan said:
I finally made it to Fox & Falcon on Friday. The place was hopping. I don't know if we just chose the wrong table, but people who came in after us were getting food long before us. We had to wait over a half hour for our appetizer (meatball sliders) to arrive and over an hour and a half before our entrees (point pleasant skate), a pasta dish and a side of roasted brussels sprouts. There were a couple of times where we had no drinks as well though I did enjoy the Kane High Head IPA when I finally got it. My wife asked for a lychee martini and ended up with I'm not sure what the drink was, but it had no lychees and a lime garnish.  I liked the sliders, but was disappointed with the brussels sprouts. There was some vinegar taste to them that I didn't enjoy. The skate and pasta were fine, but not awe inspiring and the waiter put the wrong entrees in front of us without asking who is having the fish. I'm guessing they don't offer dessert or coffee, because I didn't see a menu online and the waiter rushed the check over once we finished our entrees. 

Yes, something was off. I ordered the meatball sliders at the bar once and was amazed at how quickly them came out, and they were very good. Maybe they have kinks to iron out, as it is a big dining space, and they also serve food at all three of their bars, so it's a lot to orchestrate.

They shouldn't have rushed you out, but when the check came, you could have said that you were hoping for dessert and coffee, which they do serve. But agree you should have been asked.

Agreed I could have asked about dessert. I just figured they didn't have it since they don't show it on their website. I know, I know, don't ***/u/me. I'll give them another try to see how the burger is, but it didn't make it into the regular rotation.