Ferocious Six-Alarm Fire Destroys Condo Complex

Thankfully no one was living there. But it looks like a total loss. Interesting after all the questions about the building in light of the Avalon fire in Edgewater.


Edgewater Avalon has suffered two major fires. I believe there were promises made by the builder that more

safety features would be installed in this complex before he was permitted to begin construction by by the Township

I am open to correction


or someone doesn't like the developer.



ska said:

Thankfully no one was living there. But it looks like a total loss. Interesting after all the questions about the building in light of the Avalon fire in Edgewater.

There is a history of Avalon fires, some of them occurring during construction. A construction fire happened with the Edgewater complex.

Edgewater Apartment Complex Fire Raises Questions Over Construction, Company's Safety History

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/AvalonBay-Apartment-Complex-Fire-Safety-Lightweight-Wood-Construction-289515371.html


* In 2000, while the same Edgewater complex was under construction, a fire burned everything to the
ground and destroyed nine nearby homes. Later, six people who lost homes in the fire won settlements from AvalonBay.

* In July 2011, fire destroyed an AvalonBay apartment complex in Quincy, Massachusetts. Faulty
construction and a lack of fire barriers were found to have contributed to the damage.

* Fire also destroyed a building at an AvalonBay complex under construction in Garden City, New York in April 2012.






Is this where the PSEG building was, opposite the pool?



mumstheword said:

Is this where the PSEG building was, opposite the pool?

Yes


BTW, many blessings and thanks to the firefighters and first responders. Many were coated in ice fighting the fire; it was bitter cold. Here's a News12 report with video:

http://newjersey.news12.com/news/fire-damages-new-apartment-complex-in-maplewood-1.13063425


How was this building even built with these past violations? Why did Maplewood allow this???? Is there any justice in this world? Feeling down about the whole worldly state of affairs....this is just another example that ****** people can keep doing what they want.


In addressing the many fires that Avalon experiences, including two in Edgewater, Vic said new and more

stringent fire prevention methods would be used in the building of the project. Improved firewalls etc.



h4daniel said:

How was this building even built with these past violations? Why did Maplewood allow this???? Is there any justice in this world? Feeling down about the whole worldly state of affairs....this is just another example that ****** people can keep doing what they want.

WOW ! The building was built because it is private property and met all code standards, to the best of my knowledge. Following the Englewood fire, the builder met with town officials and agreed to additional steps, above and beyond the mandatory. It's private property and the town had ZERO right to prohibit its construction. While I understand your feelings that the world is going to hell, on this you should at least get some facts before you opine.


What Dennis said! Who knows why it burned??!! It might have nothing to do with the way Avalon built it. Yes, thank you firefighters. That must have been an awful night.

Dennis_Seelbach said:



h4daniel said:

How was this building even built with these past violations? Why did Maplewood allow this???? Is there any justice in this world? Feeling down about the whole worldly state of affairs....this is just another example that ****** people can keep doing what they want.

WOW ! The building was built because it is private property and met all code standards, to the best of my knowledge. Following the Englewood fire, the builder met with town officials and agreed to additional steps, above and beyond the mandatory. It's private property and the town had ZERO right to prohibit its construction. While I understand your feelings that the world is going to hell, on this you should at least get some facts before you opine.




DottyParker said:



ska said:

Thankfully no one was living there. But it looks like a total loss. Interesting after all the questions about the building in light of the Avalon fire in Edgewater.

There is a history of Avalon fires, some of them occurring during construction. A construction fire happened with the Edgewater complex.



Edgewater Apartment Complex Fire Raises Questions Over Construction, Company's Safety History

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/AvalonBay-Apartment-Complex-Fire-Safety-Lightweight-Wood-Construction-289515371.html




* In 2000, while the same Edgewater complex was under construction, a fire burned everything to the
ground and destroyed nine nearby homes. Later, six people who lost homes in the fire won settlements from AvalonBay.

* In July 2011, fire destroyed an AvalonBay apartment complex in Quincy, Massachusetts. Faulty
construction and a lack of fire barriers were found to have contributed to the damage.

* Fire also destroyed a building at an AvalonBay complex under construction in Garden City, New York in April 2012.

How big is this firm, and are these numbers out of line, or are a certain percentage of fires to be expected?



Dennis_Seelbach said:



h4daniel said:

How was this building even built with these past violations? Why did Maplewood allow this???? Is there any justice in this world? Feeling down about the whole worldly state of affairs....this is just another example that ****** people can keep doing what they want.

WOW ! The building was built because it is private property and met all code standards, to the best of my knowledge. Following the Englewood fire, the builder met with town officials and agreed to additional steps, above and beyond the mandatory. It's private property and the town had ZERO right to prohibit its construction. While I understand your feelings that the world is going to hell, on this you should at least get some facts before you opine.

Yes the town had zero right to prohibit the building............providing it met all zoning standards etc.

However are inspections permitted during the building process to certify it is being built to code.? A little late to do that once the building is constructed. Also since the project got a tax abatement, don't they all. I would think the town would have the right to inspect during construction. Maybe it is a different matter , but the building I live in was built in 1929 and has yearly inspections from town inspectors as well as separate inspections by the fire department



+1

And that these guys have to risk their lives for a$&s that build in a substandard way or because somebody wants an insurance payout is infuriating (whether this is the case here or not)

DottyParker said:

BTW, many blessings and thanks to the firefighters and first responders. Many were coated in ice fighting the fire; it was bitter cold. Here's a News12 report with video:

http://newjersey.news12.com/news/fire-damages-new-apartment-complex-in-maplewood-1.13063425




author said:

...However are inspections permitted during the building process to certify it is being built to code.? A little late to do that once the building is constructed. Also since the project got a tax abatement, don't they all. I would think the town would have the right to inspect during construction. Maybe it is a different matter , but the building I live in was built in 1929 and has yearly inspections from town inspectors as well as separate inspections by the fire department

Of course the town has the right and actually does conduct inspections during construction.


given Avalon Bay is a large company with many properties...but i wouldn't want to live in any of their properties even if they paid me...or any of these brand new buildings...new construction with modern materials doesn't seem to do as well as older buildings. I know a few older buildings that had fires..and all are still standing and were repairable.

Also with these vary large buildings there are more opportunities for fire to start...even things like unattended cooking or candles.

The most concerning thing is how the last Edgewater fire started, if they will pull a stunt like hiring incompetent and unlicensed contractors once they will do it again, Seriously, those people were so dumb that they didn't know to call 911 when the fire started.



Wow! I didn't think there were so many construction and fire prevention experts in our community.


conandrob240 said:

+1

And that these guys have to risk their lives for a$&s that build in a substandard way or because somebody wants an insurance payout is infuriating (whether this is the case here or not)
DottyParker said:

BTW, many blessings and thanks to the firefighters and first responders. Many were coated in ice fighting the fire; it was bitter cold. Here's a News12 report with video:

http://newjersey.news12.com/news/fire-damages-new-apartment-complex-in-maplewood-1.13063425

If it were intentionally set for insurance money then obviously they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But I didn't see where the article said it was the case. It could also be that the company is so large that just by extension they lose a certain number of properties to fire. Or it could be shoddy craftsman ship, which while bad isn't the same as torching a building for money.

I remember seeing an interesting show about the Bermuda Triangle, where if you take the same size piece of ocean from another part of the world you can find the same percentage of missing boats and airplanes. Just because an area, or a company, suffers what seems like a larger than average number of losses doesn't mean it is actually true. When comparing like to like the losses may actually be in line with what is expected.


I am thinking there is a simple answer here. The main systems, electric, furnaces etc would not have yet been operational. Frequently it happens that derelicts break into unoccupied buildings and in cold weather like this,

start fires for warmth. A lit cigarette discarded by a construction person would have smoldered and gone out

long before one in the morning. So I think the fire was deliberately set but not for any nefarious reason


could have been arson. We don't know anything. So it might be worthwhile to delay jumping to conclusions about the builder.



Woot said:

could have been arson. We don't know anything. So it might be worthwhile to delay jumping to conclusions about the builder.

The fire marshals and insurance adjusters will do through inspections. Might be months till the results are announced


Yes Dennis I don't know all the facts, but you don't either, so we have to wait and see if they are at fault. We don't know if these additional steps, "above and beyond the mandatory" were indeed taken.


I don't know about anyone else, but until I have some facts, I don't assume malice, malfeasance, or negligence.


Right, but we can't rule out misfeasance or nonfeasance.


As a former instructor in fire fighting & rescue, allow me to comment:

The typical US construction (mostly wooden/particle board exterior walls) is subject to far greater fire risk than the typical European construction (mostly brick or concrete exterior walls).

Yes, it costs more to build with brick & concrete, but those buildings are designed to last centuries, as families tend to remain in the same house for generations. In the US, where many families move repeatedly, housing is barely designed to last decades.


The fire went through areas that were still under construction where components meant to act as fire breaks were not yet installed. So I think judgement should be reserved.


http://www.northjersey.com/story/news/essex/2017/02/04/fire-destroys-maplewoods-avalon-apartment-complex/97486008/



author said:



Dennis_Seelbach said:



h4daniel said:

How was this building even built with these past violations? Why did Maplewood allow this???? Is there any justice in this world? Feeling down about the whole worldly state of affairs....this is just another example that ****** people can keep doing what they want.

WOW ! The building was built because it is private property and met all code standards, to the best of my knowledge. Following the Englewood fire, the builder met with town officials and agreed to additional steps, above and beyond the mandatory. It's private property and the town had ZERO right to prohibit its construction. While I understand your feelings that the world is going to hell, on this you should at least get some facts before you opine.

Yes the town had zero right to prohibit the building............providing it met all zoning standards etc.

However are inspections permitted during the building process to certify it is being built to code.? A little late

to do that once the building is constructed. Also since the project got a tax abatement, don't they all. I would

think the town would have the right to inspect during construction. Maybe it is a different matter , but the

building I live in was built in 1929 and has yearly inspections from town inspectors as well as separate inspections

by the fire department

Keep up the ignorance quotient...Vic specifically stated that they had been in last week for an inspect.



h4daniel said:

Yes Dennis I don't know all the facts, but you don't either, so we have to wait and see if they are at fault. We don't know if these additional steps, "above and beyond the mandatory" were indeed taken.

I don't believe I indicated fault in either direction. My comment was against your ignorant screed against a company that may, or may not, have been at fault. I merely pointed out that, contrary to your assertions, the town had no jurisdiction over them building, as long as they met appropriate construction standards. That's called a FACT, something with which more people in this town should familiarize themselves.


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