FDA takes historic action against e-cigs/vaping: Why does S.O. want to allow vape and hookah lounges?
yahooyahoo said:
Thank you Sheena for the feedback.
You address the issues of zoning, parking needs, economics, and the process that S.O. went through. However, my concern is related to public health. Why would S.O. change its ordinances to allow a business that we know causes serious health issues and that promotes an industry that is actively targeting teenagers?
How do you feel regarding the health issues of this relatively new consumer product?
There are already bars and liquor stores. I don't think a vaping place is going to be targeting teenagers. As I mentioned before, there's the example of Cryan's for anyone who thinks about getting away with serving an underage crowd.
annielou said:
So that brings up the issue of healthy food alternatives in SO. Before we start vaping, let’s promote the idea of organic/vegetarian restaurants. We have an abundance of hamburger and pizza spots but maybe one organic restaurant if that.
If the market is there the restaurant will open. The government didn't order pizza places to open.
I think Sheena's point is that vegetarian and "organic" (vague term) restaurants are already allowed under current code, so there's no reason for the town to revise code regarding food places. Vaping was added as these stores have come into the marketplace.
Promoting healthy eating is another issue and really isn't related to code.
annielou said:
So that brings up the issue of healthy food alternatives in SO. Before we start vaping, let’s promote the idea of organic/vegetarian restaurants. We have an abundance of hamburger and pizza spots but maybe one organic restaurant if that.
"We" can all do that as consumers, but it's not the job of the municipal government to promote or give preferential treatment to such businesses. If there's a market for a business that is legitimate and legal and is in compliance with zoning, it generally should be permitted with few exceptions, IMO. Especially given the vacant storefronts...
I agree but think that 90-95% or more of S.O. downtown storefronts are occupied or are being renovated for a new tenant, "vacant" storefronts really isn't an issue.
I don't vape, but I also don't want the government telling me that I cannot do so if I choose.
conandrob240 said:
I don’t think that’s what this thread was about
They’re questioning why the government would allow a vaping lounge. This is absolutely what this thread is about.
Did you question the rule that disallowed smoking in public or private establishments or within several feet of those establishments?
There have been numerous comments above regarding marketing to/targeting teens for e-cigs.
Could somebody provide some examples? I presume that the manufacturers are not advertising in Seventeen.
Just wondering here in Maplewood.
TomR
Tom_R said:
There have been numerous comments above regarding marketing to/targeting teens for e-cigs.
Could somebody provide some examples?
Go on the internet tubes and find the google. On the search bar, enter Juul advertisements.
Beyond that, the entire product is aimed at young'uns. Bubblegum flavor for example?
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Tom_R said:Go on the internet tubes and find the google. On the search bar, enter Juul advertisements.
There have been numerous comments above regarding marketing to/targeting teens for e-cigs.
Could somebody provide some examples?
Beyond that, the entire product is aimed at young'uns. Bubblegum flavor for example?
Different from flavored vodkas/whiskeys? You're talking about googling Juul ads, but what are your thoughts about the prevalence of alcohol marketing virtually everywhere, including to teens? I was at a Yankees game last year with my kids and their hat giveaway was sponsored by Budweiser and our tickets were in the Jim Beam suite (not unlimited whiskey, btw). I'm not trying to apply whataboutism, I just don't understand the double standard applied to certain vices and not others.
And I also thought this thread was about trying to prevent a hookah/vape lounge in South Orange, which does smack of over regulation, as pointed out by spontaneous.
spontaneous said:
conandrob240 said:They’re questioning why the government would allow a vaping lounge. This is absolutely what this thread is about.
I don’t think that’s what this thread was about
I never said the government should not allow someone to vape. These products are legal and sold in stores everywhere. My question was why allow a vaping lounge when we already know these products are potentially dangerous to one's health? And for certain, the lounge will affect underage consumers despite any age restrictions. Vaping is rampant in Columbia High School and among college students.
In my opinion, this is a serious public health issue.
yahooyahoo said:
spontaneous said:I never said the government should not allow someone to vape. These products are legal and sold in stores everywhere. My question was why allow a vaping lounge when we already know these products are potentially dangerous to one's health? And for certain, the lounge will affect underage consumers despite any age restrictions. Vaping is rampant in Columbia High School and among college students.
conandrob240 said:They’re questioning why the government would allow a vaping lounge. This is absolutely what this thread is about.
I don’t think that’s what this thread was about
In my opinion, this is a serious public health issue.
You are mixing two issues. Underage activity and legal businesses. Bars are allowed, but may not serve underage drinkers. How would a lounge serve high school students? They wouldn't be allowed in.
Alcohol and cigarettes have killed millions, probably two or three people we know. For that reason regulations have been in place to protect the general public from driving drunk and smoking in areas where the public gathers. Are those regulations bad? As far as I know cigarette smoking had decreased in the teenage population until vaping came along. Now it’s being given a new life, with the nicotine in vaping being the addictive ingredient.
FilmCarp said:
yahooyahoo said:You are mixing two issues. Underage activity and legal businesses. Bars are allowed, but may not serve underage drinkers. How would a lounge serve high school students? They wouldn't be allowed in.
spontaneous said:I never said the government should not allow someone to vape. These products are legal and sold in stores everywhere. My question was why allow a vaping lounge when we already know these products are potentially dangerous to one's health? And for certain, the lounge will affect underage consumers despite any age restrictions. Vaping is rampant in Columbia High School and among college students.
conandrob240 said:They’re questioning why the government would allow a vaping lounge. This is absolutely what this thread is about.
I don’t think that’s what this thread was about
In my opinion, this is a serious public health issue.
I'm not mixing issues. I'm saying they are related. Underage kids will get into any vaping lounge or hookah lounge that might open. Fake ID's are ridiculously easy to get.
yahooyahoo said:
FilmCarp said:I'm not mixing issues. I'm saying they are related. Underage kids will get into any vaping lounge or hookah lounge that might open. Fake ID's are ridiculously easy to get.
yahooyahoo said:You are mixing two issues. Underage activity and legal businesses. Bars are allowed, but may not serve underage drinkers. How would a lounge serve high school students? They wouldn't be allowed in.
spontaneous said:I never said the government should not allow someone to vape. These products are legal and sold in stores everywhere. My question was why allow a vaping lounge when we already know these products are potentially dangerous to one's health? And for certain, the lounge will affect underage consumers despite any age restrictions. Vaping is rampant in Columbia High School and among college students.
conandrob240 said:They’re questioning why the government would allow a vaping lounge. This is absolutely what this thread is about.
I don’t think that’s what this thread was about
In my opinion, this is a serious public health issue.
https://www.fake-id.com/
So should we ban bars and stores that serve alcohol? You could go the Ocean City, NJ route and make South Orange a dry town and then also ban the sales of cigarettes. Is that the solution? Just looking for some consistency in your argument.
I'll likely never patronize this theoretical hookah/vape lounge, but I just don't understand the uproar about it.
Hookahs originate from the Middle East. Is that also true of vaping? Just wondering.
ltc said:
Different from flavored vodkas/whiskeys? You're talking about googling Juul ads, but what are your thoughts about the prevalence of alcohol marketing virtually everywhere, including to teens?
Advertising liquor on TV was illegal for about 20 years. Then, palms were greased and the prohibition was removed. I believe such advertisement is not in the public interest. However, the advertisers to tell us to drink responsibly. So there you have it.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
...
Advertising liquor on TV was illegal for about 20 years. Then, palms were greased and the prohibition was removed. I believe such advertisement is not in the public interest. However, the advertisers to tell us to drink responsibly. So there you have it.
Was the advertisement of alcoholic spirits actually illegal (or against regulation), or was it just the result of of a so called gentleman's agreement?
I had thought it the latter.
TomR
annielou said:
Alcohol and cigarettes have killed millions, probably two or three people we know. For that reason regulations have been in place to protect the general public from driving drunk and smoking in areas where the public gathers. Are those regulations bad? As far as I know cigarette smoking had decreased in the teenage population until vaping came along. Now it’s being given a new life, with the nicotine in vaping being the addictive ingredient.
What is the differential between the use of e-cigs amongst teens presently; and teens' use of cigarettes in the 70's, 80's or 90,s?
TomR
Tom_R said:
Was the advertisement of alcoholic spirits actually illegal (or against regulation), or was it just the result of of a so called gentleman's agreement?
I had thought it the latter.
TomR
I don't know. It had nothing to do with a gentleman's agreement. I believe it was FCC regulations.
well, we now know they have a direct correlation to cancer and other related illnesses. We know we were lied to about how addictive they are. And so on. Yet, they were able to re-package the deadly substance in a new suit and market to and addict a whole new generation. To me, that’s the crux of this. It’s a huge difference.
It’s like saying why use car seats or seatbelts? We didn’t use them in the 70s.
Tom_R said:
annielou said:What is the differential between the use of e-cigs amongst teens presently; and teens' use of cigarettes in the 70's, 80's or 90,s?
Alcohol and cigarettes have killed millions, probably two or three people we know. For that reason regulations have been in place to protect the general public from driving drunk and smoking in areas where the public gathers. Are those regulations bad? As far as I know cigarette smoking had decreased in the teenage population until vaping came along. Now it’s being given a new life, with the nicotine in vaping being the addictive ingredient.
TomR
Cig advertisement in earlier times was based on selling sophistication. Gear that advertised cigs. was prominent. Who wouldn't want a Joe Camel, phallic symbol shirt or hat? Who wouldn't want to be as cool and sophisticated as the Marlboro Man? Well, fear not, young man, save the coupons on the side of your Marlboro and you can get Marlboro gear for the cost of a postage stamp. Young adult celebrities were pictured smoking.
On urban street corners and on college campuses, you were given free 10 packs of cigs, handed out by attractive, women. I don't recall ever seeing men handing them out.
Starter cigs, Newport and Parliament were designed to be milder to produce less beginner's throat irritation.
Parliament's was my favorite story. The cigs magically produced a cooler burn. They did that by putting asbestos in the filter.
I already directed you to Juul ads but I guess you didn't go there. The google could also direct you to images of earlier cig. company ads.
But as the great Cz says, "Carry on."
The plot thickens with vape supplier Juul.
E-cigarette maker Juul recently received a surprise visit from the Food and Drug Administration, CNBC first reported. Last week, the FDA seized thousands of documents from the startup’s headquarters, TechCrunch has confirmed.
The unannounced inspection of the startup’s headquarters on Friday was part of the FDA’s efforts to seek documentation related to Juul’s sales and marketing practices, according to the FDA.
“The purpose of these inspections was to determine compliance with all applicable FDA laws and regulatory requirements,” an FDA spokesperson told TechCrunch. “The new and highly disturbing data we have on youth use demonstrates plainly that e-cigarettes are creating an epidemic of regular nicotine use among teens. It is vital that we take action to understand and address the particular appeal of, and ease of access to, these products among kids.”
So that brings up the issue of healthy food alternatives in SO. Before we start vaping, let’s promote the idea of organic/vegetarian restaurants. We have an abundance of hamburger and pizza spots but maybe one organic restaurant if that.