Europe trip--July ideas

Am helping a friend plan a first trip to continental Europe--no choice on timing/must be July. We have been fortunate to have gone on non peak times. Any suggestions for visiting Europe during the summer to make it more enjoyable--ie be able to avoid the crowds somewhat? Especially in France and/or Italy--also thinking Amsterdam. I love Rome but think it will be too hot and crowded in July. 

For a July trip, what do you think would help create a good first time (only?) experience. Places that are easy to get to, interesting but away from the crowds? An adult and high school grad traveling together. 

All ideas appreciated! TIA

we were in Ireland in June a few years ago and had Great weather.  flew into Dublin and out of Shannon.

oots

It's gonna be tough to avoid crowding in July, I would imagine, but with regard to finding some not-so-touristy things to see and do I highly recommend they purchase the Rick Steves book(s) corresponding the place(s) they decide to visit. We have tried a number of different travel guides over the years, and for my money none of the others are comparable insofar as giving information on all the touristy highlights while at the same time pointing you off the beaten path. We never travel without them. Read it before you leave, and keep it with you while you're there.

This is kind of a rock-and-a-hard-place question. Crowds at major tourist attractions are formidable. We were in Italy in the fall of 2013 (first time), and even at that time of year some of the crowds were amazing. I wonder if avoiding major urban areas would make for a more pleasurable trip. Specifically, I'm thinking Tuscany, which is rural and gorgeous and has many different towns to visit. I've not been to Rome in the summer, but I imagine it's not a whole lot different from Manhattan in the summer--i.e., swarming with tourists. (It was pretty jammed in the fall!) But if summertime is the only option, I guess the best advice is to reserve in advance whenever possible (e.g., Vatican City, restaurants, tours) and get an early start to each day. (And if you can fit it in, go to Cinque Terre!)

Three words: Venice, Venice, Venice. Find a hotel online and make a reservation. I also loved Salzburg. Take the train from Salzburg to Venice, through the cool majesty of the Alps, stopping and changing trains in Innsbruck. Stay in the mountains, drive the Autobahn, kayak canals in Amsterdam. I loved the Mespelbrun Castle and forest, serene and quiet, even though I was nonplussed to find myself enjoying Germany!  

For a first trip to continental Europe, France. It will be hot and crowded, but beautiful, with great gardens. I think Venice, while beautiful and haunting, is not a first-trip to Europe place. That is, in itself it isn’t Europe 101, but Paris and environs is/are Two or three nights  nights in Paris to start, then train to whichever kind of provincial city appeals, and then other trains or bus trips. Normandy by way of Rouen? The Loire Valley by way of Tours or Amboise? You can also use Paris as a base for lots of day trips by train, places such as Versailles and Chartres.

I was just about to post that the two places I would NOT go in July would be Venice and the Côte d'Azur.  Been there, done that, and not worth it (the former the heat and crowds and the latter the traffic and crowds).

CZ--that is exactly what I am hoping they avoid. Seems like Paris could fit the bill...top attractions will be busy but neighborhoods might not be so bad...easy train access to lots of other places...

Thanks for all the ideas!

grayhill2 said:

For a first trip to continental Europe, France. It will be hot and crowded, but beautiful, with great gardens. I think Venice, while beautiful and haunting, is not a first-trip to Europe place. That is, in itself it isn’t Europe 101, but Paris and environs is/are Two or three nights  nights in Paris to start, then train to whichever kind of provincial city appeals, and then other trains or bus trips. Normandy by way of Rouen? The Loire Valley by way of Tours or Amboise? You can also use Paris as a base for lots of day trips by train, places such as Versailles and Chartres.

 +1 to all of the above (except I think Versailles is over-rated). Driving in France is a blast. Also consider Brittany. The tourist areas of Paris will be crowded, but once they get out of town it will be fine.

What about England? Tons to see in London, and English countryside is gorgeous in summer- full of flowers and greenery. Also parts of France in the Pyrenees are wonderful in summer and not too busy, and you get to see "real" French culture. Can cross over to Spain as well if there is time..

For a non-typical European trip, the Savoie region in France is wonderful at that time of year. The town of Aix Les Bains sits on a beautiful lake and the cheeses are fantastic. Not that one would necessarily choose vacation space around cheese, but in this case you really could. Its also close to Mount Blanc and northern Italy. A quick flight to Geneva and train ride south. Lyon also has a fantastic food culture and is within short drive as well.

Paris us kind of well, everyone does it. As crowded as Venice is, it's so magnificent. The Jewish quarter, the Lido, of course, I like to eat fresh fish, and swim in the Adriatic. Spend lots of time in mountains, Alps or Pyrénées for the beauty and peace, but end up or start with the wild majesty of the Rialto, st Marks Place,  also, concerts, opéra, either in Salzburg or Venice. Mozart's spirit dwells in Salzburg, and the town is so old and as mysterious as Venice. That's what I like about Europe, the sense of mystery. If you like gardens, definitely go to England. If you like ocean and lovely quaint villages, go to Wales and Ireland. If you love music, antiquity and mystery, go to Salzburg and Venice. Besides, Venice is disappearing. Don't you want to see the majestic art before it's gone? 

It is a first trip to continental Europe. Sometimes there is a reason "everyone" does something. While the rue de Rivoli and similar iconic but trite areas of the Right Bank will be awfully crowded in July, as at many other times because of year because of so many tourists, Paris is wonderful and the northern half of France is full of things a high schooler and accompanying adult will like-- or be enthralled by if they are lucky. One caveat: Remember that Bastille Day will break routine in France and may be loud and even inconvenient. But just one day.

About Venice. Hot and crowded in May last year, so likely more so in July of any year. And there is not a lot of space for the overflow of people in Venice. We were there last May and indeed did find the Ghetto was an extraordinary attraction, and an  interesting contrast to the magnificence of the Grand Canal, but I think for a first trip, especially in high summer, France is a better choice"'crowds and all. Based on experience overthe  last few years, a day trip by train to Vernon and shuttle bus  to Giverny is worth the crowds. Farther afield, and agreeing with other posters that driving in France is not scary and in fact fairly easy, picking up a car at a train station in the region you are focusing on opens up all kinds of possibilities. Rouen for a touring loop of Normandy and Brittany to Honfleur, Bayeux, Dinan, and so on. Or Tours to the chateaux and on to Burgundy.

I have to say that having first been to London as a nineteen teen year old many decades ago and to Paris for the first time time when I graduated from college, I waited a surprisingly long time to go to Italy, and perhaps that is shaping my advice her, but I stand by it. There is a reason Paris is a first love. (And the OP did specify continental Europe, which specifically suggested not the British Isles, from which the Continent is famously cut off,)

There's a reason the best cities and top attractions are crowded.   There's a reason they are the places everyone wants to see. It's because they are the best.  Avoiding them to avoid the crowds is throwing the baby out with the bath water.   They should go where they want.  Careful planning will help them avoid crowds and long wait times.

 You mention this is their first trip.   Is this a once in a lifetime trip.  Will they be able to go again.

Also, you don't mention their interests.  If they LOVE  Wolf Hall on TV, then England would be the best spot.   Art - Paris, Florence & Rome.

Also, we don't know how much time they have.

If they have 2 weeks and this is a once in a lifetime trip,  I would recommend 3  1/2 days in London ( first day will be jet lagged,  3 1/2 days Paris, one day & night  Venice,    3 full days in Rome and 3 days Amalfi Coast.  

It will be hot and crowded but it will be the trip of a lifetime.

Very careful planning will ameliorate the crowds.  For instance, it is important to buy tickets for museums and attractions in advance.  You can wait 1 to 3 hours in line for tickets  - or if you purchase in advance you can stroll right in. Most museums are closed one day a week and in tourist season are usually more crowded on the day before & after they are closed.   Careful research will give you more tips on how to avoid crowds.  You can arrive at the Vatican Museums/Sistine Chapel at 10 AM and wait 2 - 3 hours, or arrive at 2 PM and wait 40 minutes. 

The key to a successful trip for your friends will be very careful advance planning. They should invest in some good guide books for the locations they want to travel. Make a list of the most important attractions they want to see in each city, then google each attraction.   A google search of best time Eiffel Tower  gave me this :  http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-03-28/six-tips-for-seeing-the-125-year-old-eiffel-tower-the-right-way

HEre are some more specific suggestions:

They should start with London because it's Europe and we know and love the history and everyone speaks English. It is easier to make your way.  It is a perfect introduction to Europe. 

  The day they arrive they should take a tourist bus tour of London - evening or night time tour would be best.. Must see sights:  Tower of London, Buckingham Palace,  British Museum, Westminster Abbey, London Eye, Harrods,   Many other choices depending on time and interests.

Paris:  Harder to navigate, French are not particularly helpful or nice - but it's worth it.   Take a guided bus tour of the city - I know it is touristy but it's the best way to make sure you see everything.   Must do's:   Notre Dame( don't miss the nearby Sainte Chapelle)  The Louvre Museum, The Orsay Museum, Eifell Tower,  The boat rides on the Sienne are wonderful,  Take a guided walking tour, Visit Montmarte and Le Marais,  MUST DO - take a day trip to Versailles - the palace and gardens are one of the most spectacular things you will see in your life.

More later

Best bang for your buck - Eastern Europe (Prague, Bucharest, Budapest, Krakow etc).  Also nice - Northern Europe (Copenhagen, Sweden, Finland etc).  

Also, I was fortunate to have a consulting gig a few years back which put me all over Europe for about 8 months (UK, Ireland, France, Holland, Germany, Bulgaria, Poland, Finland, Bulgaria, Denmark) - the most amazing place I visited during that 8 months was undoubtedly Auschwitz. It's an astounding place and the caretakers and tour guides do an incredible job.  IMO, every human should visit there once.

Sarah made really good points, and I especially concur with the introductory bus tour idea (boat ride on the Seine if Paris or canals if Amsterdam); those work very well on arrival day. It sounds like one of the travelers is getting this trip as a graduation present, Maybe bang for buck in Krakow and deep depression at Auschwitz are not the way to go this time. 

One thought might be to go to a place like Brussels and then do overnight trips to Amsterdam, Paris, Cologne, Antwerp, Bruge etc.  There are pretty convenient trains and you get a flavor of a few different cultures.  Also, trains are a great way to see the country side without having the stress of driving. 

Or pick a country that appeals to you - Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, the Scandinavian countries, Holland/Belgium etc. and spend time in just that country seeing the larger cities as well as visiting smaller towns and villages.  Depending on the time you have, you will come back with a sense of the people, the landscapes and the culture. Do the touristy spots but try to get off the beaten path, if possible.  In France, Paris is great as is the South of France, but Brittany and Normandy are very enjoyable too.

Thanks for all the comments/ideas. Mom and daughter have been to British Isles, this will be on the continent. I'm waiting for more info re: specific interests. Daughter will likely be back but Mom may not have the opportunity.

Why is it some people on this forum can't resist criticism of others vs. simply offering advice when asked?

grayhill2 said:

Sarah made really good points, and I especially concur with the introductory bus tour idea (boat ride on the Seine if Paris or canals if Amsterdam); those work very well on arrival day. It sounds like one of the travelers is getting this trip as a graduation present, Maybe bang for buck in Krakow and deep depression at Auschwitz are not the way to go this time. 

lanky said:

Why is it some people on this forum can't resist criticism of others vs. simply offering advice when asked?

grayhill2 said:

Sarah made really good points, and I especially concur with the introductory bus tour idea (boat ride on the Seine if Paris or canals if Amsterdam); those work very well on arrival day. It sounds like one of the travelers is getting this trip as a graduation present, Maybe bang for buck in Krakow and deep depression at Auschwitz are not the way to go this time. 

 

 I know, right? Tragic.

Oh, well.

The mega cruise ships have been a burden on Venice.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11023451/Italy-to-ban-large-cruise-ships-in-Venice.html

My suggestions would depend on whether your friend wants the grand European experience - ie Paris, Rome, Venice, etc. Honestly, crowds be damned - they're not to miss. 

I take a annual holiday to Italy in July to visit my in-laws. And we always take a little week-long (parents only) trip from our starting point in Italy. Sometimes we leave the continent. But we also explore Europe too. My favorite place so far that I've visited on one of these trips is Dubrovnik, Croatia. It's a little off the tourist map - with the exception of the cruise ships and you get both a beach vacation and cultural experience. From Dubrovnik we also drove to Montenegro and did some hiking. It was an amazing trip.

Based on my daughter's report on the subject from her summer abroad last summer, I would say that most parts of Italy will be VERY hot then.  She loved her time there but did not love the heat.  (She was in Florence, but also visited Rome, Venice and other destinations.)

DottyParker said:

The mega cruise ships have been a burden on Venice.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11023451/Italy-to-ban-large-cruise-ships-in-Venice.html

When we were in Dubrovnik we took a sail boat around the coast for a few days. Our skipper was telling us how the cruise ships are taking a toll on the city. He said that several will arrive at the same time unloading thousands of passengers on a city that wasn't built for such crowds. Everyone descends on the old city causing nightmare congestion. The tourists flush a million toilets but don't really spend any money because they eat on the boat and spend nominally on souvenirs. And the cruise ships pollute the piers. I don't know if he's right, but he complained that the ships cost more than they bring in revenue. 

DottyParker said:

The mega cruise ships have been a burden on Venice.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11023451/Italy-to-ban-large-cruise-ships-in-Venice.html

When we were in Dubrovnik we took a sail boat around the coast for a few days. Our skipper was telling us how the cruise ships are taking a toll on the city. He said that several will arrive at the same time unloading thousands of passengers on a city that wasn't built for such crowds. Everyone descends on the old city causing nightmare congestion. The tourists flush a million toilets but don't really spend any money because they eat on the boat and spend nominally on souvenirs. And the cruise ships pollute the piers. I don't know if he's right, but he complained that the ships cost more than they bring in revenue. 

Our son spent a bit over a year in the Netherlands (in Maastricht). He loved it and visited Amsterdam, Cologne, the Hague, Prague, Brussels, Paris and London. He also took a few longer trips to Italy and Spain.

I know we visited Austria mid-summer, but went to Salzburg rather than Vienna (not really a choice, the rental car was a bit wonky and we didn't think it would make it to Vienna in time to enjoy being in Vienna, so we stayed in Salzburg). It was not empty, but not unbearable, either. We fell in love with the city, its castle, the buildings - and the people could not have been nicer or more welcoming.  In Italy, we visited the big cities, but also spent some time in San Gimignano, Montepulciano, Urbino, Siena, Turin, Padova and Aosta. All were beautiful, not horridly crowded, and there were so many treasure to see! I particularly loved Urbino. We went to Rimini, too, but that was quite crowded and the Adriatic looked a bit iffy to swim in.

If they are in Italy, the Alt'Adige region (north of Venice, where Italy meets Austria) is a fascinating mix of Italian and Austrian/German food and language and the scenery is amazing. It also tends to be cooler than the areas of Rome and south of Rome.

If I were going back, I'd love to head towards the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium and Germany. The trains make travel so comfortable and easy and there is such a sense of history wherever you go.

@cody. Agree. But the Adriatic off Lido was just fine, in mid-May. We loved the Lido. So, so nineteenth century and quirky and European. You could just sense Thomas Mann at Hotel des Bains.

Also, after you take the river boat down the Danau, which is the name for the Danube as it flows through Salzburg, rent a car and drive up into the Alps, North of the Plains of Maria. Really cool. Incredible scenery.

Go to Salzburg, rent a car and drive up into Unterburg Mountain. Just gorgeous!