Epstein Commits Suicide While on Suicide Watch (Maybe?)

paulsurovell said:

What's especially notable is the failure of the mainstream media to cite this report and pursue its potential implications.

I agree it’s notable: Mainstream media usually want to verify something like this themselves before running with it, and they generally require at least two independent anonymous sources.

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

paulsurovell said:

nohero said:

nan said:

It is common for countries to entrap powerful people and then blackmail them to do what you want.  So, I would not dismiss theories that include that angle.

Exactly.  For instance, if it's alleged that an American real estate developer was entrapped in Russia and videoed cavorting with prostitutes, that should definitely be investigated.  Especially if the developer is in a position to be a powerful official in the government.

 Especially when the allegation is made by opposition research in a document filled with obvious falsehoods.

Any claim like that would be based on what turned up after investigation.  So a big "fail" for Paul's counter-argument.

 Lots of allegations with lots of credible documentation of Epstein's involvement with intelligence agencies here:

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

Presumably you support investigations by the media as well as the authorities.

The link is to the results of that guy's investigating, and I stopped at his heading: "The picture painted by the evidence is not a direct Epstein tie to a single intelligence agency but a web linking key members of the Mega Group, politicians, and officials in both the U.S. and Israel, and an organized-crime network with deep business and intelligence ties in both nations."

Sure, he can investigate, but he has all the indicia of one of those conspiracy theorists who has a big chart on the wall with push pins and yarn showing connections within the "web".

And according to him, it's the Jews.  

I think he may (or may not) have committed suicide, but the circumstances are suspicious for sure.  And, IF he did not, then the evidence of that was likely also tampered with.  So we may never know.

Many sexual predators, particularly of young children, are at very high risk of committing suicide in the beginning of their incarceration.  There is not only the shame, and loss of freedom probably for life, but they are a target generally among prisoners, and of course this is magnified with Epstein.  So, my guess is that he indeed took his own life.  However, I would not be surprised if someone got the word not to do anything special to protect him beyond strict protocol, and it is possible someone might have been paid off or pressured to do so, including by Epstein himself.

Is anyone entertaining the idea that he was moved into the witness protection program?  He allegedly hung himself, and the picture of him on that gurney is not consistent with how hanging victims present, to put it delicately. 

Okokokok said:

Is anyone entertaining the idea that he was moved into the witness protection program?  He allegedly hung himself, and the picture of him on that gurney is not consistent with how hanging victims present, to put it delicately. 

 I would file that in my "two eyebrows raised, jaw dropped and using profanity" classification. But I suppose it's possible. It wouldn't be the first time someone pretty awful was able to cut a deal. 

I would say that his connections to politically connected people might make it difficult for a really safe witness protection, if we're going with the theory that he'd afraid of getting killed.

DaveSchmidt said:

paulsurovell said:

What's especially notable is the failure of the mainstream media to cite this report and pursue its potential implications.

I agree it’s notable: Mainstream media usually want to verify something like this themselves before running with it, and they generally require at least two independent anonymous sources.

"Usually" but they could note the Daily Beast report that has been unchallenged and as well as one or more of Epstein's connections to intelligence cited by Whitney Webb, as part of the range of possible explanations of why the Epstein was not prosecuted by the US Attorney. It's possible the MSM have decided in advance that the "intelligence" angle will not appear in mainstream discourse.  I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I think the MSM is far too entangled with the intelligence community to look into whether Acosta made the statement in question and if so, what it entails.

Report: You're The Only One Who Really Knows What Happened To Jeffrey Epstein

YOUR LOCATION—Confirming that everyone else had gotten it totally wrong, experts issued a report Monday indicating that you, and you alone, were the sole person who had correctly surmised what happened to Jeffrey Epstein. “Despite widespread speculation and numerous conflicting theories as to the truth behind Epstein’s apparent suicide in his jail cell, we have determined that you, the person currently reading this, are the only one to have arrived at the correct conclusion,” read the report in part, adding that your superior deductive reasoning skills and ability to think for yourself had prevented you from being suckered in like those other oblivious fools. “You are the only one who knows what’s actually going on here. While the rest of them are chasing the wrong leads and getting distracted by red herrings, you have cracked the case. Now the only question that remains: What are you going to do with the bombshell of the century?” At press time, sources issued a follow-up report confirming that the powers that be were onto you and you needed to leave your family and run.

(Yes, it's The Onion)

nohero said:

(Yes, it's The Onion)

 the dumbest one I've heard so far is that Epstein's death was faked so he can disappear, and the proof is that it's a body double in those post mortem photos!  Now why on earth if he was being helped to disappear would they would need a body double is beyond me.  Why not take a photo of the real Epstein in makeup to appear dead?  

the thing with so many conspiracy theories that's stupid is that they so often include one or more completely unnecessary steps that are the giveaways that it's a plot! Why would the authorities go to the trouble of faking Epstein's death but then be so sloppy as to release a photo of someone who isn't Epstein?  Sometimes the only evidence cited of a conspiracy is the dumb, slopped and wholly unnecessary step that the conspirators inserted into the process.

I'm hating that the edit feature is gone.  The word "slopped"  ironically enough should have been "sloppy."

Jim Morrison killed him.

at least they didn’t bury him at sea a la bin Laden, allegedly.

ml1 said:

 the dumbest one I've heard so far is that Epstein's death was faked so he can disappear, and the proof is that it's a body double in those post mortem photos!  Now why on earth if he was being helped to disappear would they would need a body double is beyond me.  Why not take a photo of the real Epstein in makeup to appear dead?  

the thing with so many conspiracy theories that's stupid is that they so often include one or more completely unnecessary steps that are the giveaways that it's a plot! Why would the authorities go to the trouble of faking Epstein's death but then be so sloppy as to release a photo of someone who isn't Epstein?  Sometimes the only evidence cited of a conspiracy is the dumb, slopped and wholly unnecessary step that the conspirators inserted into the process.

 In the one I read along these lines, they said the corpse clearly had a different nose and that they were not following protocol for prison suicides.  No photos or details though.

ml1 said:

I'm hating that the edit feature is gone.  The word "slopped"  ironically enough should have been "sloppy."

 Where did edit go?  Is it coming back?  I need it.  

paulsurovell said:

paulsurovell said:

South_Mountaineer said:

@nan - I don’t argue that some rich influencer couldn’t have wanted to see Epstein dead to avoid embarrassment or worse.  But the Aaron Mate video uses some facts about Epstein to make him out to be some sort of intelligence asset. 

I was mainly reacting to this - - 

paulsurovell said:

More recently, this 3-part investigative report goes into Epstein's many connections to the powerful, including international intelligence agencies (the focus of Part 3).

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

Most of this won't be reported in the mainstream media out of concern over its own connections to the powerful and international intelligence agencies.

We're going to get a sanitized version of Whitney Webb's reporting.

Really? A shadowy Jewish cabal, as “exposed” in part 3?  And the last installment ends with this coming attraction for the next installment: "As will be revealed, despite the Clintons’ willingness to embrace corrupt dealings during the span of their political careers, their mostly friendly relationship with this network still saw them use the power of sexual blackmail to obtain certain policy decisions that were favorable to their personal and financial interests but not to the Clintons’ political reputation or agendas.

 For the record, you omitted the preceding sentence of your quote:

 Right, I was commenting on the “coming attractions”. I didn’t quote the rest of her article. 

nan said:

 Where did edit go?  Is it coming back?  I need it.  

The Clintons had it removed

Kim Iverson connects a bunch of who done it dots and comes up with the Israelis. 

South_Mountaineer said:

South_Mountaineer said:

paulsurovell said:

paulsurovell said:

South_Mountaineer said:

@nan - I don’t argue that some rich influencer couldn’t have wanted to see Epstein dead to avoid embarrassment or worse.  But the Aaron Mate video uses some facts about Epstein to make him out to be some sort of intelligence asset. 

I was mainly reacting to this - - 

paulsurovell said:

More recently, this 3-part investigative report goes into Epstein's many connections to the powerful, including international intelligence agencies (the focus of Part 3).

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

Most of this won't be reported in the mainstream media out of concern over its own connections to the powerful and international intelligence agencies.

We're going to get a sanitized version of Whitney Webb's reporting.

Really? A shadowy Jewish cabal, as “exposed” in part 3?  And the last installment ends with this coming attraction for the next installment: "As will be revealed, despite the Clintons’ willingness to embrace corrupt dealings during the span of their political careers, their mostly friendly relationship with this network still saw them use the power of sexual blackmail to obtain certain policy decisions that were favorable to their personal and financial interests but not to the Clintons’ political reputation or agendas.

 For the record, you omitted the preceding sentence of your quote:

 Right, I was commenting on the “coming attractions”. I didn’t quote the rest of her article. 

You did comment on the rest of the article but you didn't mention that the focus of the article was on Republicans, which provides context for your characterization. Again, this is what you deleted:

Though this series has so far focused on the ties of this network to main Republican Party affiliates . . .

The Actual Facts Behind Jeffrey Epstein's Death Are Worse Than the Conspiracy Theories

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbmjnn/the-actual-facts-behind-jeffrey-epsteins-death-are-worse-than-the-conspiracy-theories

• Broken Jails
• A Corrupt Legal System
• An Ocean of Dark Money

In the meantime, rich people buying special treatment from a government that fails to provide basic services at every level and ultimately eluding justice doesn't require a conspiracy theory to be borne out. It's just how things tend to work.

nan said:

Kim Iverson connects a bunch of who done it dots and comes up with the Israelis. 

 You should probably stop now.

Here's an example of how the mainstream media erases the "intelligence" connection to Epstein:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

In this WaPo profile of Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's recruiter and general assistant, there is no mention that Ghislaine's father, British publisher Robert Maxwell was a high-level agent of the Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, according to numerous journalists, including Robert Fisk and Seymour Hersh.

An MSM sanitized version of Whitney Webb's investigative reporting.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

PVW said:

nan said:

Kim Iverson connects a bunch of who done it dots and comes up with the Israelis. 

 You should probably stop now.

 Because  . . ?

nan said:

 Where did edit go?  Is it coming back?  I need it.  

This is discussed in the MOL updates thread.  There was a bug in a new release of the message board software that allowed anyone to edit any post. Jamie temporarily disabled ‘edit’ until that can be fixed.

Because blaming the Israeli's and "secret intelligence" is such a perfect distraction. It helps us ignore the regular systemic issues around wealth and poverty in our various corrupt American systems that let this guy be who he was (and continue to be who he was), while it overly-penalizes those without such financial resources.

paulsurovell said:

PVW said:

nan said:

Kim Iverson connects a bunch of who done it dots and comes up with the Israelis. 

 You should probably stop now.

 Because  . . ?

 When the edit button comes back, this can be inserted into my post above for the context.

paulsurovell said:

PVW said:

nan said:

Kim Iverson connects a bunch of who done it dots and comes up with the Israelis. 

 You should probably stop now.

 Because  . . ?

 You need me to explain why it's a bad idea to share unfounded conspiracy theories that end at "the Israelis?"

paulsurovell said:

paulsurovell said:

South_Mountaineer said:

South_Mountaineer said:

paulsurovell said:

paulsurovell said:

South_Mountaineer said:

@nan - I don’t argue that some rich influencer couldn’t have wanted to see Epstein dead to avoid embarrassment or worse.  But the Aaron Mate video uses some facts about Epstein to make him out to be some sort of intelligence asset. 

I was mainly reacting to this - - 

paulsurovell said:

More recently, this 3-part investigative report goes into Epstein's many connections to the powerful, including international intelligence agencies (the focus of Part 3).

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

https://www.mintpressnews.com/...

Most of this won't be reported in the mainstream media out of concern over its own connections to the powerful and international intelligence agencies.

We're going to get a sanitized version of Whitney Webb's reporting.

Really? A shadowy Jewish cabal, as “exposed” in part 3?  And the last installment ends with this coming attraction for the next installment: "As will be revealed, despite the Clintons’ willingness to embrace corrupt dealings during the span of their political careers, their mostly friendly relationship with this network still saw them use the power of sexual blackmail to obtain certain policy decisions that were favorable to their personal and financial interests but not to the Clintons’ political reputation or agendas.

 For the record, you omitted the preceding sentence of your quote:

 Right, I was commenting on the “coming attractions”. I didn’t quote the rest of her article. 

You did comment on the rest of the article but you didn't mention that the focus of the article was on Republicans, which provides context for your characterization. Again, this is what you deleted:

 I hit “quote” just now and it left off the end of @paulsurovell’s post. 

Anyway, if it makes him feel better he can add the line anout Republicans to the quote from his article about the Clintons. It doesn’t change my point, and now he can comment and tell me why I should take the quoted nonsense about the Clintons seriously. 

Or he won’t and just come up with some other diversion, or just move on without defending it. 

My theory is that Bernie Sanders did it because he did not like the fact the Jeffrey Epstein, in this video, said that Bernie's policies made no economic sense.  Bernie then wanted to have Jeff murdered but he gave incorrect instructions to his BOTS and they got the wrong guy.

">

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M04F1U1FZg

Kim Iverson should look into it.

Again, these conspiracies are always so convoluted. If powerful people wanted him dead, why not arrange an "accident" for him before he was ever arrested? Why wait until he's in prison and fake a suicide?  Doesn't killing him in prison mean ensuring that a hell of a lot more people keep quiet about what they've seen and heard?

That's why these theories are so absurd. The conspiracy is a Rube Goldberg contraption -- but when all they needed to do was take care of him before he ever got arrested. 

PVW said:

 You should probably stop now.

 Watch the video.  She does a good job putting it all together. Her attitude is that everyone is coming up with a conspiracy theory, so here is hers.  She worked really hard on it.  She seems like the studious type anyway. Worth a listen. 

---because----

Everyone’s A Conspiracy Theorist, Whether They Know It Or Not

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/08/12/everyones-a-conspiracy-theorist-whether-they-know-it-or-not/