Easy solution to the Trump wall problem

Still no deal.  Trump, "the deal maker", made this into a winner take all battle and is still insisting on 5.7 billion for his wall.

If he wanted to negotiate with the Democrats he should have made this proposal to them in a meeting rather than engage in a public relations stunt.

Of course his requests for $ for a wall (or fence) should be directed to the Mexican Congress not the US Congress.

tjohn said:
Let us assume that the 40% of the people who support the wall are stupid.  Let us further assume that 100% of these 40% won't change their minds in response to facts.  What to do?
I think Democrats need to resurrect a more comprehensive immigration bill containing:
1. DACA.
2. Immigration reform.
3. Humanitarian funding for migrants/potential migrants.
4. Border security (technology, agents, some fencing).
And let Trump reject the proposal.

This makes sense to me. 

I worry that the gains made by Democrats in the 2018 election will lead to a sense of hubris. Is anyone actually offering an alternative or are they just playing the obstructionist role?

Trump's  view of deal-making is zero-sum.  If he could imagine win-win, a deal would be easy enough.

Or maybe he understands that if he loses this battle, his enemies will descend upon him likes sharks on chum.

mrincredible said:

tjohn said:
Let us assume that the 40% of the people who support the wall are stupid.  Let us further assume that 100% of these 40% won't change their minds in response to facts.  What to do?
I think Democrats need to resurrect a more comprehensive immigration bill containing:
1. DACA.
2. Immigration reform.
3. Humanitarian funding for migrants/potential migrants.
4. Border security (technology, agents, some fencing).
And let Trump reject the proposal.

This makes sense to me. 
I worry that the gains made by Democrats in the 2018 election will lead to a sense of hubris. Is anyone actually offering an alternative or are they just playing the obstructionist role?

the alternative all along was to decouple the immigration question from the resolution to keep the government running, and work out a deal later.

It's actually really important for the Democrats to oppose Trump on principle.  McConnell has essentially handed over the constitutional budgetary role of the Congress to the executive.  He's not bringing up a bill just because Trump objects to it.  The Democrats can't allow this precedent to stand.  What if a future Democratic president states that he/she'll veto every funding bill and shut down the government unless Congress outlaws handguns or some other similarly quixotic demand?

It's not just that this is a Republican president doing this.  It's that ANY president would try such as stunt.

ml1 said:

mrincredible said:

tjohn said:
Let us assume that the 40% of the people who support the wall are stupid.  Let us further assume that 100% of these 40% won't change their minds in response to facts.  What to do?
I think Democrats need to resurrect a more comprehensive immigration bill containing:
1. DACA.
2. Immigration reform.
3. Humanitarian funding for migrants/potential migrants.
4. Border security (technology, agents, some fencing).
And let Trump reject the proposal.

This makes sense to me. 
I worry that the gains made by Democrats in the 2018 election will lead to a sense of hubris. Is anyone actually offering an alternative or are they just playing the obstructionist role?

the alternative all along was to decouple the immigration question from the resolution to keep the government running, and work out a deal later.
It's actually really important for the Democrats to oppose Trump on principle.  McConnell has essentially handed over the constitutional budgetary role of the Congress to the executive.  He's not bringing up a bill just because Trump objects to it.  The Democrats can't allow this precedent to stand.  What if a future Democratic president states that he/she'll veto every funding bill and shut down the government unless Congress outlaws handguns or some other similarly quixotic demand?
It's not just that this is a Republican president doing this.  It's that ANY president would try such as stunt.

Yeah, I don't get why anyone thinks the Dems should do anything is response to this temper tantrum other than what they are doing.

We were this close to avoiding a shutdown. Trump was ready to sign the budget resolution, until Fox and their friends started going wacko. So he changes his mind on a dime and demands his stupid wall, and McConnell decides to be on Trump's side to complete their obstruction, blocking reconsideration of the resolution in the Senate because he knows it would pass.

At some point the Dems needed to stand their ground against this anti-democratic crap and just say not today bub. Not today.

ml1 said:

mrincredible said:

tjohn said:
Let us assume that the 40% of the people who support the wall are stupid.  Let us further assume that 100% of these 40% won't change their minds in response to facts.  What to do?
I think Democrats need to resurrect a more comprehensive immigration bill containing:
1. DACA.
2. Immigration reform.
3. Humanitarian funding for migrants/potential migrants.
4. Border security (technology, agents, some fencing).
And let Trump reject the proposal.

This makes sense to me. 
I worry that the gains made by Democrats in the 2018 election will lead to a sense of hubris. Is anyone actually offering an alternative or are they just playing the obstructionist role?

the alternative all along was to decouple the immigration question from the resolution to keep the government running, and work out a deal later.
It's actually really important for the Democrats to oppose Trump on principle.  McConnell has essentially handed over the constitutional budgetary role of the Congress to the executive.  He's not bringing up a bill just because Trump objects to it.  The Democrats can't allow this precedent to stand.  What if a future Democratic president states that he/she'll veto every funding bill and shut down the government unless Congress outlaws handguns or some other similarly quixotic demand?
It's not just that this is a Republican president doing this.  It's that ANY president would try such as stunt.

 Right. What Trump is doing is holding the government hostage, and that's the message the Democrats should be repeating again and again. This is not the way our government is meant to work. 

McConnell should be getting much more public condemnation than he's getting. He's not doing his job. He's supposed to present bills to Congress to let that legislative body vote. He's not supposed to be acting as a wannabe dictator's muscle!

McConnell and Schumer have made a deal to bring two different bills to the Senate floor for a vote on Thursday.  McConnell supports one which includes Trump's most recent proposal and the other is a bill that passed already in the House.  Neither is expected to pass in the Senate because 60 votes are needed.

unicorn33 said:
Since his followers believe everything he says, why doesn't Trump just assert that the wall has been built (thanks, Mexicans!) and then open the government. He could even show a picture of the Game of Thrones wall and claim it's his. Problem solved.

 It's remarkable how this is starting to happen. Signs with "Finish the Wall" at the rally he held for instance. This morning I heard a recording of him saying work us underway in the wall "as we speak."

mrincredible said:

unicorn33 said:
Since his followers believe everything he says, why doesn't Trump just assert that the wall has been built (thanks, Mexicans!) and then open the government. He could even show a picture of the Game of Thrones wall and claim it's his. Problem solved.

 It's remarkable how this is starting to happen. Signs with "Finish the Wall" at the rally he held for instance. This morning I heard a recording of him saying work us underway in the wall "as we speak."

yup, he just lies about everything.  And with the wall, it doesn't matter.  It's not as if any voters are going to travel to the border to verify that it was built.

How many campaign rallies will be he hold in front of some section of whatever gets built?

I wish the Dems would keep hammering home his "Mexico will pay for it" lie. They still haven't learned to play the game the way Trump plays it. He uses repetition as a weapon, and he does it very effectively. People who knew nothing about Hillary, for example, believed she was dishonest, simply because Trump called her "Lyin' Hillary" 10,000 times.

unicorn33 said:
I wish the Dems would keep hammering home his "Mexico will pay for it" lie. They still haven't learned to play the game the way Trump plays it. He uses repetition as a weapon, and he does it very effectively. People who knew nothing about Hillary, for example, believed she was dishonest, simply because Trump called her "Lyin' Hillary" 10,000 times.

 "Crooked Hillary"

"Lyin Ted"

"Grabbin Donnie"

STANV said:

unicorn33 said:
I wish the Dems would keep hammering home his "Mexico will pay for it" lie. They still haven't learned to play the game the way Trump plays it. He uses repetition as a weapon, and he does it very effectively. People who knew nothing about Hillary, for example, believed she was dishonest, simply because Trump called her "Lyin' Hillary" 10,000 times.

 "Crooked Hillary"
"Lyin Ted"





Get your memes correct.

 I stand corrected.

If , as reported, Trump declares a National Emergency in order to fund his Wall, and gets away with it I will hope that a Democratic Candidate promises to declare the lack of health care for all Americans a National Emergency and uses his or her powers to impose Medicare for All, Single-Payer or something similar.

How many lives are lost to inadequate healthcare compared to how many people are murdered by "illegal aliens".

According to the CDC, there were 70,000 drug overdose deaths in 2017.  Who knows.  Maybe those were coming in through Middle Earth.  Or the hole in the Ozone.

Robert_Casotto said:
According to the CDC, there were 70,000 drug overdose deaths in 2017.  Who knows.  Maybe those were coming in through Middle Earth.  Or the hole in the Ozone.

Thanks for supporting STANV's point. That's part of the broken healthcare system. Doctors get paid and lunched by drug companies, and then the doctors overprescribe the opioid meds they were bribed and coached to make scripts for:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/drug-company-payments-to-doctors-may-influence-opioid-overdose-deaths/2019/01/18/f265ade0-1aa0-11e9-9ebf-c5fed1b7a081_story.html?utm_term=.f518282e64e7

"Prescription painkillers — rather than heroin or fentanyl — are often the first opioid that consumers are exposed to."