Dreamers -- So Long, It's Been Good To Know Ya.
We shall see. I do not think this is the end of the story.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515?lo=ap_f1
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Senate Dems. are now willing to drop their demand for Dreamer relief to be tied to any long term budget agreement. Chuckles the Clown caved.
Most shocking reveal to me was the fact that Schumer had agreed to paying for the wall! Years of contending that the wall was the lunatic dream of Trump, the candidate, and of POTUS, yet considered as collateral by the Dems to get DACA.
The voting public is never fond of government closure — by either party — and Schumer should have realize that the young dreamer cause did not preempt concern for our military and all the other ramifications of shutting down the government.
Firstly, Schumer can't offer to pay for the wall. Mexico is paying for the wall. If we are putting one dime for that wall on our budget, then Trump lied to us.
Secondly, there was a bill from Sen. McCaskill to continue the military payroll through the government shutdown but Sen. McConnell objected to its inclusion and killed it. There was a similar bill in 2013, and it was passed unanimously and signed by President Obama.
Watch here:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4710181/senator-mcconnell-objects-military-pay-protection
well, you know, we're just going to lay out the money for the wall. Mexico's going to pay us back, of course.
Here's what I don't get. Trump says he's for DACA. If that's the case, why do the Dems have to offer ANYTHING to him for it?
drummerboy said:
Here's what I don't get. Trump says he's for DACA. If that's the case, why do the Dems have to offer ANYTHING to him for it?
Because he's a lying sack of ****.
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Senate Dems. are now willing to drop their demand for Dreamer relief to be tied to any long term budget agreement. Chuckles the Clown caved.
Perhaps there is method to their madness
oops. I forgot.
ridski said:
drummerboy said:
Here's what I don't get. Trump says he's for DACA. If that's the case, why do the Dems have to offer ANYTHING to him for it?
Because he's a lying sack of ****.
The problem with that plan is that Republicans don't care.
LOST said:
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
Senate Dems. are now willing to drop their demand for Dreamer relief to be tied to any long term budget agreement. Chuckles the Clown caved.
Perhaps there is method to their madness
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/01/25/democrats-will-make-republicans-the-bad-guys-on-daca/?utm_term=.0363c3cb2e0f
The hardcore Republicans don't care, but they are not the target. It's Independents, young people and Hispanics they have to appeal to and motivate to vote.
The WH seems to think they have to deal with the issue.
This is the strategy: the Democrats double caved on DACA because they don't give a crap. They only care about their donors and the donors don't want the government shut down. They pretend to be against Trump, but then vote to give him more money for the military than he asks for and warrantless surveillance, and now they blow off DACA. So much for "The Resistance."
nan, I think you know that mainstream democrats do not form the bulk of the resistance movement. By definition. "Mainstream."
I really don't get your dismissive attitude toward all who resist the incursions against our democracy and our freedoms.
I'm reading the news this morning, and the Administration is putting some new DACA terms on the table. I don't see the basis for the "Democrats double caved" statement.
nan said:
This is the strategy: the Democrats double caved on DACA because they don't give a crap. They only care about their donors and the donors don't want the government shut down. They pretend to be against Trump, but then vote to give him more money for the military than he asks for and warrantless surveillance, and now they blow off DACA. So much for "The Resistance."
They don't give a crap? The only reason DACA is even an issue is because the Dems give a crap. And they didn't blow off anything. It's a pretty risky thing, politically, to shut down the government over DACA. There is almost no political upside to it. They should be given props that they went as far as they did.
And of course the fight is not over.
ETA: just wondering what the fringe left thinks the Dems should have done? What is there brilliant no-lose strategy?
nan said:
This is the strategy: the Democrats double caved on DACA because they don't give a crap. They only care about their donors and the donors don't want the government shut down. They pretend to be against Trump, but then vote to give him more money for the military than he asks for and warrantless surveillance, and now they blow off DACA. So much for "The Resistance."
The guy running the ads calling for Trump's impeachment is a major donor to the Democratic Party. So are many wealthy people, particularly in Hollywood, who have left-wing politics.
nakaille said:
nan, I think you know that mainstream democrats do not form the bulk of the resistance movement. By definition. "Mainstream."
I really don't get your dismissive attitude toward all who resist the incursions against our democracy and our freedoms.
Actually, yes they do. Who is out of mainstream Democrats except the Sanders wing and a few Justice Democrats? Democrats who take corporate money are mainstream. That's about all of them. I am dismissive of what I see as fake resistance. Many Democratic senators pretend to be against Trump and then vote for his policies or nominations. Last summer, almost all the Democrats voted for 80 billion more for the military, more than Trump asked. Recently, they helped to give him warrentless surveillance. If he's so bad, why would anyone give him this power? A bunch of them supported making Jerusalem the capital of Israel, creating instability in the Mideast. Now they are weak on DACA and Chuck Schemer said we would pay for the wall. Also, starting a new wave of McCarthyism does not help. It's more like McResistance.
The Republicans don't take any guff. They stand up for the horrible policies they want. They refused to even question Merritt Garland for a year. The Democrats just roll over for everything. Because the donors don't want the government shut down. Democrats don't give a crap about their voters. They love to grandstand, but when it comes to voting they give in and often agree with Trump. They gave him 80 billion more for war, and warrentless surveillance and they will probably end up paying for the wall or abandoning the Dreamers too. Look at Tammy Duckworth--who I saw so many great high-five Facebook posts the other day cause she questioned Trump's military avoidance. People were saying we need more like her. Yet, she gave him a huge military budget and the ability to spy on all of us so who cares if she calls him a few names? Time to stop listening to what they say and pay attention to what they do.
drummerboy said:
They don't give a crap? The only reason DACA is even an issue is because the Dems give a crap. And they didn't blow off anything. It's a pretty risky thing, politically, to shut down the government over DACA. There is almost no political upside to it. They should be given props that they went as far as they did.
And of course the fight is not over.
ETA: just wondering what the fringe left thinks the Dems should have done? What is there brilliant no-lose strategy?
nan said:
This is the strategy: the Democrats double caved on DACA because they don't give a crap. They only care about their donors and the donors don't want the government shut down. They pretend to be against Trump, but then vote to give him more money for the military than he asks for and warrantless surveillance, and now they blow off DACA. So much for "The Resistance."
At some point, we may have a stream of refugees moving from the US to Canada.
that's actually already happening, and it's putting a strain on Canada.
Tom_Reingold said:
At some point, we may have a stream of refugees moving from the US to Canada.
I can't say that I'm surprised, but Trump can't even own the fact that it was he that ended DACA. He's blaming it on the courts - saying that they did not uphold Obama's order.
Problem is, there were no lawsuits regarding the order. Hence no court decision.
What a truly execrable man he is.
So, the neoliberal press tries to justify the Democratic cave with the usual happy horsesh**t: if they had persisted in standing up for Dreamers, the 80% of people who support the Dreamers might stop supporting them and anyway, things take time and are really really complicated so they did the right thing by caving.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrat-cave-shutdown-immigration_us_5a665efbe4b002283005c4ca
Meanwhile, the fact that a massive amount of people support the Dreamers is exactly why they should have stood up for them. You stand up for popular causes, and look to negotiate on less popular causes. But, the Democrats cave because they are paid to cave by their donors. They stand up and show spine when it comes to telling the people that voted for them that they are for increased military spending, warrantless surveillance, and now even, Trump's wall. Here is another Jimmy Dore video that shows the repulsive Debby Wasserman Schultz (why is she still a spokesperson for Dems???), justifying the cave as "potential momentum." Even the talking CNN head can't believe how they try to spin it. It's like SNL has nothing on the DNC.
I really don't need to hear Jimmy Dore talk about "standing up for the Dreamers". He made his choice, he didn't give a cr*p about them when he decided not to support the Democratic nominee in the 2016 election.
[Edited to add] And since Trump put "Dreamer" terms on the table and that's what's being discussed now, grumpy tirades about DWS are beside the point.
He mentions how he is glad he did not vote for the Democrats because they clearly don't give a crap about the Dreamers. That is his point. By the way, Obama could have made the Dreamers citizens and then this would not even be a problem now.
I don't think Obama had the power to do that. Other than making someone an Honorary Citizen (of which there are only 8) I'm pretty sure the president can't make a person a citizen by fiat. He did what he could with DACA as an executive order, but he really couldn't do much more than that by himself.
This also addresses another question that was asked at the time.
nan said:
He mentions how he is glad he did not vote for the Democrats because they clearly don't give a crap about the Dreamers. That is his point. By the way, Obama could have made the Dreamers citizens and then this would not even be a problem now.
If that's his point, and he's sincere, then he's clueless on top of everything else. Trump revoked the EXISTING program protecting them, and saying "Democrats wouldn't protect them" is a nonsense claim. And, as already noted, "Obama could have made the Dreamers citizens" is not a statement based in real life.
Obama prioritized help for the Dreamers in his 2008 campaign, but once elected seems to have forgotten.
nan said:
Obama prioritized help for the Dreamers in his 2008 campaign, but once elected seems to have forgotten.
Obama Screwed the DACA Dreamers Before Trump Did
Except for the part about, you know, creating DACA.
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Senate Dems. are now willing to drop their demand for Dreamer relief to be tied to any long term budget agreement. Chuckles the Clown caved.