Do the Kochs run America? And does Ellsworth Toohey figure into it?
wow, the most important thread here and no one's reading it. 
more to read
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/new-koch
The short answer is yes. I heard all three interviews on NPR and plan to buy the hardcover book as I want to support the author for doing this.
They are the modern conservative movement with a lot of followers sadly.
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/25/they_see_themselves_as_heroes_instead_people_are_saying_theyre_manipulating_american_politics_jane_mayer_on_the_method_behind_the_koch_brothers_brilliant_madness/
this is ugly and sad for democracy, but I'm optimistic that its a passing phase and that the Koch's are not immortal and their ideas and ideals, and deeds, will be nothing more than footnotes to American history.
jeffhandy said:
They are the modern conservative movement with a lot of followers sadly.
Maybe, but maybe the "modern conservative movement" is Donald Trump and Sarah Palin, which may be worse.
db says: "don't be sad. it's ok."
But I'm 
for the country, not for his thread. (For the thread, thx!)
hoops said:
this is ugly and sad for democracy, but I'm optimistic that its a passing phase and that the Koch's are not immortal and their ideas and ideals, and deeds, will be nothing more than footnotes to American history.
oh, it's hardly a passing phase. The Koch's (and others, like Richard Mellon Scaife) have been working this for decades. I think it started with the Cato Institute, but they've been funding "alternative" information sources for a long time, and have managed to push the political discourse far to the right.
Their recent direct funding for political campaign is the least of their evils.
What is not talked about enough, I think, is the effect of groups like Cato, The Heritage Foundation, The American Enterprise Institute - and on and on - in pushing our country's politics to the far right.
And I say our "politics" specifically for a reason, because I think the country as a whole still broadly supports liberal-ish principals (polls consistently bear this out). But these right wing groups are not meant to inform (dis-inform, actually) the general public. They are meant to influence the relatively small handful of Washington insiders (and lately, state governments too, through ALEC) that actually run the country. At most all they have to do is influence a few thousand people. Which they have done spectacularly well.
When I'm up to it, I'll explain the Ellsworth Toohey angle, as I believe they are using this Ayn Rand character as the model for changing opinions.
jeffhandy said:
Tried to find Dark Money in the Library, they don't have it yet.
Expect a ton of "holds."
I agree thats an/the issue. My comment is based solely on the hope that the Koch's and their allies all die off and their heirs are not as influential. -- likely not realistic as I read it.
So whats the recourse, if not hope for better days?
Well the left should be happy - After the FB earnings release Mark Zuckerberg has gone ahead of the Koch's on the wealth chart.
bramzzoinks said:
Well the left should be happy - After the FB earnings release Mark Zuckerberg has gone ahead of the Koch's on the wealth chart.
Yes, it's news like this that makes the left do a happy dance.
New book is out - Dark Money, investigating the Kochs, by Jane Mayer of the New Yorker.
Listen to this interview. It's long.
Let me know if this link to the show works or not.
link