Dining out spreads contagion of COVID-19. Scientific Fact or Political Fiction?
Jaytee said:
Also list the brothels and illegal massage parlors in town….
And the knowledge of these establishments? There seems to be a particular focus on them. I know I was away from MOL for quite a while but I don't recall much discussion about the topic. Maybe that's where this so-called woman hails from.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
They have no choice and they realize all of this talk of contagion through droplets in restaurants
You haven't addressed any other scenarios involving indoor activities where masking is required, like private businesses. It seems you have a limited range of hobby horses. And why do doctors continue to use masks indoors? Aerosols and droplets carry virus particles. It has been proven over and over.
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ConcernedHighTaxPayer also said:
Thus, vaccination does not prevent you from getting COVID either
-----------------------
Not many people understand immunology and that is a major reason misinformation about COVID and vaccines against it is able to thrive. Here is another discussion of the topic from earlier this summer on data from a clinical study conducted in the U.S. VA health care system.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-1577
"Sterilizing immunity" is misunderstood as completely preventing transmission but is actually closer to preventing an infectious agent from developing into an infection serious enough to cause illness - once it invades your body. No vaccine will ever be able to prevent viruses from getting to our bodies. The data cited above indicate that the two mRNA-based vaccines (Pfizer's & Moderna's) studied provide strong protection but nothing is 100%. The example most people cite for achieving complete immunity is smallpox but although it is considered eradicated, were it to emerge again somehow, it would be devastating until the population was vaccinated. It had about a 30% fatality rate and millions died each year until it was wiped out. Even people who have been vaccinated would need a booster. They stopped giving smallpox vaccines in 1972
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/smallpox/symptoms-causes/syc-20353027
From the article:
If you were vaccinated as a child
Immunity or partial immunity after a smallpox vaccine may last up to 10 years, and 20 years with revaccination. If an outbreak ever occurred, people who were vaccinated as children would still likely receive a new vaccination after direct exposure to someone with the virus.
PVW said:
I must be slow on the uptake, but I still can't follow how restaurants being shut down by covid restrictions leads to restaurants so full it's hard to get a reservation. Or where all those people on the 1&9 are going if everything is shut down.
Ah well -- at this point I don't actually believe CHTP is trying to make any point about covid at all, just trying to stir up reactions on MOL. The earlier posters who called him on this were completely correct.
the thing about trolls is that after a while almost everyone else figures it out, and turns the joke back on them.
ml1 said:
the thing about trolls is that after a while almost everyone else figures it out, and turns the joke back on them.
Well, it gave me a opportunity to vent about those selfishly prolonging the pandemic for their own political ends, so I appreciated that.
On the other covid threads I've mainly tried to respond generously since, regardless of how good (or not) the faith of the questions, other people reading may have legitimate concerns. If there's any chance at all of convincing the vaccine hesitant to overcome their reluctance, I want to be part of the solution and not the problem.
Given the trollishness of CHTP, and the general ridiculousness of this thread, I don't feel those constraints here.
PVW said:
I must be slow on the uptake, but I still can't follow how restaurants being shut down by covid restrictions leads to restaurants so full it's hard to get a reservation. Or where all those people on the 1&9 are going if everything is shut down.
Ah well -- at this point I don't actually believe CHTP is trying to make any point about covid at all, just trying to stir up reactions on MOL. The earlier posters who called him on this were completely correct.
Okay, here goes. Ready? I know it's been a little time since elementary school math, but if you have a restaurant with 40 tables and that restaurant fills reservations for lunch and dinner at a normal pace you have 40 tables to serve, 40 tables to fill, 40 reservations to potentially make during lunch and dinner. Maybe it's a popular place like a Diner or a Starbucks, it really makes no difference. The math is the same. So now, pay attention because here is the tricky part. Let's say you serve lunch from 12:00pm to 3:00pm, and then open for dinner at 5:00pm and close at 11:00pm you have a potential full seating business day equivalent to 360 reservations. If you multiply the 360 by 4 customers at each table you have a grand total of 1,440 customers per day.
Now, if you have some genius come along a he/she comes up with a clever idea that the only way you can prevent the spread of COVID is by only allowing 25% of service to the above described business, then you reduce that total above (the 360 reservations) to a grand total of 90 reservations. If you put in place additional restrictions. For example, seating people 6 feet apart, not allowing patrons without masks, limiting the space someone can seat for outside dining, etc... Then you further reduce the number of reservations. Let's say those 90 reservations are reduced by half. That leaves you 45 reservations a day. Multiply that by 4 and you get a grand total of 180 customers per day.
But wait, there's more. If the community use to make 360 reservations per day and you were fortunate enough to serve 1,440 customers per day. Those same customers may still like to go out and eat occasionally. You still have to serve the same community. However, you now can only serve 1,440 customers per day or (360) reservations per day with the capacity of 45 reservations per day or 180 total customers per day.
When you have 1,440 customers calling a restaurant and you only have the capacity for 180 customers you are always full at 180 maximum customers. That is why the reservation systems are overwhelmed and cannot serve their communities adequately. That is also why if you call any restaurant in Essex County lately, you cannot make a reservation unless you make it one or two weeks in advance. Subtract the amount of reservations made for people who cut in line in front of you because they have more influence or money and you reduce this number further. People leave your community to enjoy dinner somewhere else because this is ridiculous and further reduce the business in the communities who have stronger restrictions. Those people on the 1 & 9 or Pulaski Skyway fleeing from your backwards, fictional, stupid policies that make no sense, take their business elsewhere and (if it is true) spread their COVID having dinner somewhere else. So there is no reduction of COVID and there is no improvement to small business. It's harm all around. Let me know if you need me to go over this again. We will stay here until we learn how basic math explains this issue.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
PVW said:
I must be slow on the uptake, but I still can't follow how restaurants being shut down by covid restrictions leads to restaurants so full it's hard to get a reservation. Or where all those people on the 1&9 are going if everything is shut down.
Ah well -- at this point I don't actually believe CHTP is trying to make any point about covid at all, just trying to stir up reactions on MOL. The earlier posters who called him on this were completely correct.
Okay, here goes. Ready? I know it's been a little time since elementary school math, but if you have a restaurant with 40 tables and that restaurant fills reservations for lunch and dinner at a normal pace you have 40 tables to serve, 40 tables to fill, 40 reservations to potentially make during lunch and dinner. Maybe it's a popular place like a Diner or a Starbucks, it really makes no difference. The math is the same. So now, pay attention because here is the tricky part. Let's say you serve lunch from 12:00pm to 3:00pm, and then open for dinner at 5:00pm and close at 11:00pm you have a potential full seating business day equivalent to 360 reservations. If you multiply the 360 by 4 customers at each table you have a grand total of 1,440 customers per day.
Now, if you have some genius come along a he/she comes up with a clever idea that the only way you can prevent the spread of COVID is by only allowing 25% of service to the above described business, then you reduce that total above (the 360 reservations) to a grand total of 90 reservations. If you put in place additional restrictions. For example, seating people 6 feet apart, not allowing patrons without masks, limiting the space someone can seat for outside dining, etc... Then you further reduce the number of reservations. Let's say those 90 reservations are reduced by half. That leaves you 45 reservations a day. Multiply that by 4 and you get a grand total of 180 customers per day.
But wait, there's more. If the community use to make 360 reservations per day and you were fortunate enough to serve 1,440 customers per day. Those same customers may still like to go out and eat occasionally. You still have to serve the same community. However, you now can only serve 1,440 customers per day or (360) reservations per day with the capacity of 45 reservations per day or 180 total customers per day.
When you have 1,440 customers calling a restaurant and you only have the capacity for 180 customers you are always full at 180 maximum customers. That is why the reservation systems are overwhelmed and cannot serve their communities adequately. That is also why if you call any restaurant in Essex County lately, you cannot make a reservation unless you make it one or two weeks in advance. Subtract the amount of reservations made for people who cut in line in front of you because they have more influence or money and you reduce this number further. People leave your community to enjoy dinner somewhere else because this is ridiculous and further reduce the business in the communities who have stronger restrictions. Those people on the 1 & 9 or Pulaski Skyway fleeing from your backwards, fictional, stupid policies that make no sense, take their business elsewhere and (if it is true) spread their COVID having dinner somewhere else. So there is no reduction of COVID and there is no improvement to small business. It's harm all around. Let me know if you need me to go over this again. We will stay here until we learn how basic math explains this issue.
I kinda feel bad that you went through all that arithmetic when restaurants in NJ currently are not required to have any of the restrictions you're talking about.
But I'll give you a B+ for effort.
drummerboy said:
I kinda feel bad that you went through all that arithmetic when restaurants in NJ currently are not required to have any of the restrictions you're talking about.
But I'll give you a B+ for effort.
Governor Murphy just announced children may not have to wear masks in school for the rest of the year. So, just get ready to agree with me in about 2 weeks to 1 month. Unless, we somehow magically come up with a cure for COVID in the next week, we are about to find out this is all garbage science. As New York City does, New Jersey follows, and as the Governor of New Jersey does Maplewood follows. Before the end of this month, these rules will suddenly drop. Just watch and learn something.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
Governor Murphy just announced children may not have to wear masks in school for the rest of the year. So, just get ready to agree with me in about 2 weeks to 1 month. Unless, we somehow magically come up with a cure for COVID in the next week, we are about to find out this is all garbage science. As New York City does, New Jersey follows, and as the Governor of New Jersey does Maplewood follows. Before the end of this month, these rules will suddenly drop. Just watch and learn something.
I'm still hoping to learn how the non-existent capacity restrictions are responsible for your difficulties in getting restaurant reservations.
PVW said:
I'm still hoping to learn how the non-existent capacity restrictions are responsible for your difficulties in getting restaurant reservations.
Seems he’s under the bridge between the library and the park… he occasionally crawls out to take pictures of sidewalks and plywood structures painted in bright colors. I imagine he will get a first hand view of the duck race come next 4th of July…
PVW said:
I'm still hoping to learn how the non-existent capacity restrictions are responsible for your difficulties in getting restaurant reservations.
The damage was done early. It doesn't matter that restrictions have been loosened recently. Businesses had to scramble and change their business plans and those that adapted well survived but many did not, but someone should be held accountable for this impact. You cannot just have people going around and spreading lies and waiving a magic wand and playing the red light - green light with local business.
This is election season though and Governor Murphy is about to start announcing all kinds of good news. Just wait. Suddenly, no children need masks in schools, suddenly no mandates are necessary, suddenly for the next month or so, somehow, there are no more increasing number of COVID cases or COVID deaths, everything is hunky dory.
Just go to sleep, wake up on election day and vote for the same person who is going to continue to raise your taxes that's what the whole Township of Maplewood is going to do anyway. It's like the whole Township is under a spell where they can never see things a different way that could actually work. Go ahead, just vote for more taxes on election day. Let's see how much longer before everyone has to flee the state. That's all you are voting for - more taxes, more taxes, more taxes.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
The damage was done early. It doesn't matter that restrictions have been loosened recently. Businesses had to scramble and change their business plans and those that adapted well survived but many did not, but someone should be held accountable for this impact. You cannot just have people going around and spreading lies and waiving a magic wand and playing the red light - green light with local business.
This is election season though and Governor Murphy is about to start announcing all kinds of good news. Just wait. Suddenly, no children need masks in schools, suddenly no mandates are necessary, suddenly for the next month or so, somehow, there are no more increasing number of COVID cases or COVID deaths, everything is hunky dory.
Just go to sleep, wake up on election day and vote for the same person who is going to continue to raise your taxes that's what the whole Township of Maplewood is going to do anyway. It's like the whole Township is under a spell where they can never see things a different way that could actually work. Go ahead, just vote for more taxes on election day. Let's see how much longer before everyone has to flee the state. That's all you are voting for - more taxes, more taxes, more taxes.
Basic as this math may be, I'm afraid I must be in need of some remedial instruction. You are having trouble getting a reservation because restaurants are too full. There are not currently capacity restrictions at restaurants. So your complaint is that the restrictions from last spring have made restaurants.. too popular? They're getting too much business now?
Jaytee said:
I imagine he will get a first hand view of the duck race come next 4th of July…
Currently among MOL’s most popular comments:
joan_crystal said:
The duck race is on Memorial Day. Let's not confuse the OP further.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
This is election season though and Governor Murphy is about to start announcing all kinds of good news. Just wait. Suddenly, no children need masks in schools, suddenly no mandates are necessary, suddenly for the next month or so, somehow, there are no more increasing number of COVID cases or COVID deaths, everything is hunky dory.
Not that there's data or anything showing that NJ's 7-day running average of new daily COVID cases has been over 1,700 cases per day since the middle of August. 1246 new cases yesterday according to Worldometer.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-jersey/
The COVID death rate is lower in NJ because of the high rate of vaccination, yet COVID infections are still being recorded each day at a rate over 4-times higher than in June & July of this year. Does this say anything about the current risk THIS MONTH or are you like the other stupid agitators that care more about money than your neighbors?
If the data go down sharply over the next couple of weeks, perhaps we'll get some of the restrictions relaxed but you can see the 6-month stretch starting last year in September, can't you? So, here we are with a similar pattern beginning, only it's with the delta variant causing breakthrough infections and more serious illness in unvaccinated people who contract it.
PVW said:
Basic as this math may be, I'm afraid I must be in need of some remedial instruction. You are having trouble getting a reservation because restaurants are too full. There are not currently capacity restrictions at restaurants. So your complaint is that the restrictions from last spring have made restaurants.. too popular? They're getting too much business now?
Dude, you are hopeless, but I know this is intentional. You understand very well what I am saying. Find out for yourself, try to make a reservation at a restaurant.
People are scared from these ignorant statements from last year. There was no proof and still is no proof whatsoever that COVID is spread by dining out. Nor is there any proof that COVID somehow slows down if you order in. The entire effort to slow down or curtail restaurant eating is totally bogus. You cannot get COVID when you eat at a restaurant. There are no documented cases, illnesses, hospitalizations, or deaths that can be traced to dining out.
Question: You are having trouble getting a reservation because restaurants are too full.
Answer: Yes
Comment: There are not currently capacity restrictions at restaurants.
Answer: There are restrictions enforced on restaurants by Townships and their health departments. This has developed into restaurant owners policing themselves and their customers with restrictions. That is what Townships should have done in the first place. They should have trusted local businesses to police themselves instead of slowing down business, shuttering others and chasing some out of town.
Question: So your complaint is that the restrictions from last spring have made restaurants.. too popular?
Answer: Absolutely NOT! Where did you get that from? The restrictions from last Spring diminished the amount of patrons a restaurant could serve. The restaurants continue to use the same depleted capacity as was instructed last Spring, because otherwise, thanks to the political hacks the people will be TOO SCARED TO DINE THERE. This results in a diminished reservation system still having to serve the large number of people who like the restaurant and makes the local restaurant and other businesses suffer. Basically, it's like when you were in High School and the cool, and popular kids said someone was not popular because they spread diseases. This is, in a nutshell, the effect the announcements of last Spring have had on local business. Now restaurants, if they want to survive, have to either become more exclusive or become unpopular with the broader public. For example, if a local restaurant owner suddenly said, "I'm not going to comply with this Township's policy of social distancing because I do not believe dining out spreads COVID." This restaurant owner would probably be assumed to be a Trumpster and nobody would dine in that restaurant ever again. This is the stupidity of political hacks, it's as simple as spreading rumors in high school. That's wrong! Someone should be held accountable for this incompetent decision and how it has seriously affected many of the businesses in the community. Including losing Kings Supermarket.
I truly hope this helps. Otherwise, just show up at the polls on election day and ask to be taxed more. The election ballot for this year should say:
Line A - Get Taxed More plan 1
Line B - Get Taxed More plan 2
These are your two options. Not a person, a leader, or a personality. Just more tax.
Not sure why they even hold elections in Maplewood anymore. You can literally copy paste last year's election ballots and resubmit.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
Dude, you are hopeless, but I know this is intentional. You understand very well what I am saying.
Oh, I know what you're saying. My questions has always actually been, do you know what you're saying?
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
Dude, you are hopeless, but I know this is intentional. You understand very well what I am saying. Find out for yourself, try to make a reservation at a restaurant.
People are scared from these ignorant statements from last year. There was no proof and still is no proof whatsoever that COVID is spread by dining out. Nor is there any proof that COVID somehow slows down if you order in. The entire effort to slow down or curtail restaurant eating is totally bogus. You cannot get COVID when you eat at a restaurant. There are no documented cases, illnesses, hospitalizations, or deaths that can be traced to dining out.
Question: You are having trouble getting a reservation because restaurants are too full.
Answer: Yes
Comment: There are not currently capacity restrictions at restaurants.
Answer: There are restrictions enforced on restaurants by Townships and their health departments. This has developed into restaurant owners policing themselves and their customers with restrictions. That is what Townships should have done in the first place. They should have trusted local businesses to police themselves instead of slowing down business, shuttering others and chasing some out of town.
Question: So your complaint is that the restrictions from last spring have made restaurants.. too popular?Answer: Absolutely NOT! Where did you get that from? The restrictions from last Spring diminished the amount of patrons a restaurant could serve. The restaurants continue to use the same depleted capacity as was instructed last Spring, because otherwise, thanks to the political hacks the people will be TOO SCARED TO DINE THERE. This results in a diminished reservation system still having to serve the large number of people who like the restaurant and makes the local restaurant and other businesses suffer. Basically, it's like when you were in High School and the cool, and popular kids said someone was not popular because they spread diseases. This is, in a nutshell, the effect the announcements of last Spring have had on local business. Now restaurants, if they want to survive, have to either become more exclusive or become unpopular with the broader public. For example, if a local restaurant owner suddenly said, "I'm not going to comply with this Township's policy of social distancing because I do not believe dining out spreads COVID." This restaurant owner would probably be assumed to be a Trumpster and nobody would dine in that restaurant ever again. This is the stupidity of political hacks, it's as simple as spreading rumors in high school. That's wrong! Someone should be held accountable for this incompetent decision and how it has seriously affected many of the businesses in the community. Including losing Kings Supermarket.
I truly hope this helps. Otherwise, just show up at the polls on election day and ask to be taxed more. The election ballot for this year should say:
Line A - Get Taxed More plan 1
Line B - Get Taxed More plan 2
These are your two options. Not a person, a leader, or a personality. Just more tax.
Not sure why they even hold elections in Maplewood anymore. You can literally copy paste last year's election ballots and resubmit.
where, exactly, do you get your "ideas" from?
and you still haven't answered the question (as far as I've seen anyway): How do you think covid spreads?
try this on for size and tell us how it's wrong.
ConcernedHighTaxPayer said:
...
Now restaurants, if they want to survive, have to either become more exclusive or become unpopular with the broader public. For example, if a local restaurant owner suddenly said, "I'm not going to comply with this Township's policy of social distancing because I do not believe dining out spreads COVID." This restaurant owner would probably be assumed to be a Trumpster and nobody would dine in that restaurant ever again.
speaking personally, I wouldn't dine in that restaurant because the owner is apparently as clueless as you are.
I'm starting to wonder an even more basic question -- does CHTP believe all these people have died? Or is he so far into fanatasyland he's questioning the existence of the pandemic itself?
anyone I've spoken to who runs a restaurant cites the difficulty in attracting workers as the cause of reduced hours or reduced capacity.
people don't want to work crappy jobs in poor conditions and be treated poorly by customers, for low pay. Makes sense to me.
ml1 said:
anyone I've spoken to who runs a restaurant cites the difficulty in attracting workers as the cause of reduced hours or reduced capacity.
people don't want to work crappy jobs in poor conditions and be treated poorly by customers, for low pay. Makes sense to me.
OMG, come on man. What are you under the assumption that these jobs are worked by U.S. Citizens. Please, don't make me laugh! As if anybody in this country ever cared about the work conditions of people who cook your food at restaurants, most of which are undocumented foreign workers. Were you born yesterday? Do you really think there are unwilling, undocumented, foreign workers out there who are refusing these jobs because they are just not getting all the fringe benefits and cuddly teddy bears you have to give U.S. workers when they get sad because they don't get the proper tip? Talk about me being in La La land, have you ever been to a restaurant? Oh, man. Thanks for the giant belly laugh, but come on. LOL You buy that nonsense? No wonder you all vote for more taxes every year.
ml1 said:
anyone I've spoken to who runs a restaurant cites the difficulty in attracting workers as the cause of reduced hours or reduced capacity.
people don't want to work crappy jobs in poor conditions and be treated poorly by customers, for low pay. Makes sense to me.
Yes, I see your point. I guess it took the pandemic to make restaurant servers understand that their job is a) crappy and b) under poor conditions, and c) treated poorly.
"people don't want to work crappy jobs in poor conditions and be treated poorly by customers, for low pay. Makes sense to me."
Hey listen to this Breaking News! ml1 Thinks that this is the first time in history that restaurant servers think their job stinks. LOL
Jeez. Who are you talking about? Do you imagine all restaurants hire ivy league students from Harvard and Yale? Unbelievable.
Hey, this has been a lot of fun. I would continue to play online like you guys. It seems you all have a vast amount of time to BS back and forth while you continue to collect your stimulus money and unemployment, but the adults have to go to work and I, being an adult, will be in Rome, Italy for the next 3 to 6 months banging out deals.
As the great lyricist of our time Ludacris would say, "Cuz I'll be in Rome mackin on chicks and stickin'em, and you'll be at home pickin your boogers and flickin'em."
Bye, don't forget to vote for more taxes. LOL
drummerboy said:
I'll miss you. You were such an easy target.
He realized he wasn't getting any traction with his limited repertoire of unwarranted assumptions and patently obvious children's games. Rome sounds like a good place to fantasize about with his "woman". Don't drink from the Trevi fountain though.
PeterWick said:
He realized he wasn't getting any traction with his limited repertoire of unwarranted assumptions and patently obvious children's games. Rome sounds like a good place to fantasize about with his "woman". Don't drink from the Trevi fountain though.
I dare him to stick his hand into the Bocca della Verità.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
I think he meant Rome, NY...near Utica.
I have had family there since 1972. I grew up in one of the other "No, not that one" towns up in CNY. Liverpool.
drummerboy said:
I'll miss you. You were such an easy target.
I think he has to replenish his electrolytes after this bout of explosive diarrhea…he’s tired.
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