Did the CDC jump the gun?

beats me.

I would have been more comfortable with a delay of yesterday's announcement. However if it helps spur vaccinations, maybe it's ok.


I trust the CDC. Which is to say I accept what they say with virtually no scepticism. 

Naïve? Maybe. 


The CDC posts guidelines.  The individual States decide whether to adopt them in whole or in part.  We still have States within the Country and communities within individual States that are showing much lower vaccination rates and much higher infection rates than are the norm.  The CDC guidelines, while encouraging, are not a one size fits all solution to our present situation nationally or globally.  Here, we are still seeing a far too low vaccination rate in our bordering neighbor, Newark and in other parts of the State and the region.  Given the fluidity of movement of our local population, we are not out of the woods yet, even though our local numbers in Maplewood and South Orange look promising.


I'm just going to post this virologist's extremely funny thread right here.


Well, it's dandy that vaccinated folks don't have to wear masks, but who's checking whether the unmasked people are actually vaccinated?  I'm concerned that a whole lot of unvaccinated will also be out there unmasked, passing the illness around and incubating mutations.....

Not seeing it as a major incentive to get vaccinated since, as noted, nobody's checking afaik.


My sense is that the advisories from the CDC for the covid pandemic have been on the side of caution.  Dr. Fauci also took a cautious approach in his statements.  You have to read both the CDC and Fauci's comments very carefully since they often contain nuances and "ifs."   This is of course why many people (often for political reasons) criticized them.  


too many people are becoming anti mask. i think CDC is just giving in to them to prevent full revolt.  If people would just grow up and get vaccinated, it may be okay.  There is no good excuse to not have 95-99% of people fully vaccinated.  There are legit issues such as allergy or a real psych disorder that makes someone too terrified to get the vax.  . Most of the anti vax people just refuse to educate themselves or are so stubborn about not giving into the government,, they won't get vaccinated to snub the government.

I would be okay to be on the beach or in a park with a mask as long as I wasn't in the middle of the same crowd for long periods.  If there were others sitting 10 feet from me, I would be okay with, If am am just passing random people for a few hours, I am okay with that.  But something like a full stadium, i would not feel comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with other people.

I am not comfortable in a store or other enclosed space with others I don't  know without a mask.

and too many people will lie about being vaccinated so you can't trust them.  I would be more comfortable with 70% of eligible fully vaccinated to start with....with many more planning on getting it soon.


mjc said:

Well, it's dandy that vaccinated folks don't have to wear masks, but who's checking whether the unmasked people are actually vaccinated?  I'm concerned that a whole lot of unvaccinated will also be out there unmasked, passing the illness around and incubating mutations.....

Not seeing it as a major incentive to get vaccinated since, as noted, nobody's checking afaik.

 who knows what's running through the minds of some of these people. But maybe now it will make some people get vaccinated of they think they are likely to be out and about near other unmasked, unvaccinated people. Right now there's not as much risk if you're unvaccinated but everyone is in masks. 


I am not going to judge someone for wearing a mask or not wearing a mask if fully vaccinated. For me I am not going to wear a mask outside anymore unless it is in a crowded area. Of course I will wear a mask indoor at stores or in a crowded area outside.   


The CDC justification basically says:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Ffully-vaccinated-people.html

  • Risk is reducing because of vaccines, but there's a lot we don't know. 
  • Taking steps towards relaxing certain measures for vaccinated people may help improve COVID-19 vaccine acceptance and uptake.

The CDC guidelines for the fully-vaccinated in non-healthcare settings:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

Fully vaccinated people can:
  • Resume activities without wearing masks or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance
  • Resume domestic travel and refrain from testing before or after travel or self-quarantine after travel
  • Refrain from testing before leaving the United States for international travel (unless required by the destination) and refrain from self-quarantine after arriving back in the United States
  • Refrain from testing following a known exposure, if asymptomatic, with some exceptions for specific settings
  • Refrain from quarantine following a known exposure if asymptomatic
  • Refrain from routine screening testing if feasible
For now, fully vaccinated people should continue to:
  • Get tested if experiencing COVID-19 symptoms
  • Follow CDC and health department travel requirements and recommendations

Every day the NYTimes says Essex County,NJ is a high risk. Even though I am vaccinated I will keep the mask on until Essex County improves. 


Looks like the number of new NJ cases will be under 1000 today. Very good.  The transmission rate has started  to drop again too, after rising a bit.  .84 today.

I see the occasional reports of breakthrough cases among the vaccinated but I don't think I've seen a report of any deaths among the vaccinated.  That means all of the 100s of daily U.S. deaths continue to be a among the unvaccinated.  Given that its mid May, these deaths must overwhelmingly be among people who could have been vaccinated but opted out.  You just wonder if these people on their death beds, or their families, are moved to regret about their decisions.  


galileo said:

Every day the NYTimes says Essex County,NJ is a high risk. Even though I am vaccinated I will keep the mask on until Essex County improves. 

 the NYT reporting also shows Essex County down 86% in cases per day in the past 2 weeks at 5 per 100,000. I don't get how that still computes to high risk. 


bub said:

Looks like the number of new NJ cases will be under 1000 today. Very good.  The transmission rate has started  to drop again too, after rising a bit.  .84 today.

I see the occasional reports of breakthrough cases among the vaccinated but I don't think I've seen a report of any deaths among the vaccinated.  

There seems to have been about 70 reported Covid deaths among the vaccinated as of this May 6th article:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctor-giant-field-infectious-diseases-dies-covid-19/story?id=77503942

[from the end of the article...]

Fully vaccinated people have a significantly lower risk of getting COVID-19 and even lower risk of severe COVID-19. It's possible to die from the virus after being fully vaccinated, but it's exceptionally rare. In the United States, out of 105 million fully vaccinated people, about 70 cases of death from COVID-19 have been reported. Mostly of the vaccinated people who died were older and frail, with significant underlying medical conditions.

According to his ex-wife, the 81-year-old doctor suffered from diabetes and heart complications, WABC reported.

Yeah.  They seem uncertain about whether people who tested positive for Covid actually died of it but I have to believe some of them did.  Still it's a very small number.


The State of NJ now has Essex and the whole state as moderate activity.

I really want to learn how the Yankee players got infected.   I want to know all the details.     Now if the Yanks could just start hitting.


The Yanks started testing positive about 2.5 weeks after the JJ vaccine. So they were barely at the 2 week mark and may have actually got it within the 2 weeks.  Also JJ is only 67% if blocking infection......so it is expected a lot of people will get asymptomatic or mild illness.


Deaths from vaccine breakthroughs aren't many, but they do exist, as this article from the San Francisco Chronicle Indicates from May 12th:

"California has reported 3,620 so-called breakthrough cases of coronavirus infections in people who were fully vaccinated since Jan. 1, state public health officials said Wednesday. Of those cases, at least 150 people were hospitalized and at least 20 died. State officials stressed that they don’t know how many of those patients were hospitalized or died due to COVID-19. Hospitalized people may have tested positive after being admitted for some other condition and may not have been seriously ill from the coronavirus. Those who died may have succumbed to causes unrelated to COVID-19. The reports mark the first time the California Department of Public Health has released hospitalization and death data for people who were infected with the coronavirus after being fully vaccinated. State officials said they “exploring the possibility” of providing breakthrough data on a public dashboard soon, the same way they publish overall case, hospitalization and death numbers. The 3,620 breakthrough cases represent 0.25% of the more than 1.4 million coronavirus cases reported in California from Jan. 1 to May 5. The 20 deaths make up 0.06% of the 35,677 COVID-19 deaths in that time."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/California-reveals-how-many-breakthrough-cases-16172770.php


jmitw said:

too many people are becoming anti mask. i think CDC is just giving in to them to prevent full revolt.  If people would just grow up and get vaccinated, it may be okay.  There is no good excuse to not have 95-99% of people fully vaccinated.  There are legit issues such as allergy or a real psych disorder that makes someone too terrified to get the vax.  . Most of the anti vax people just refuse to educate themselves or are so stubborn about not giving into the government,, they won't get vaccinated to snub the government.

I would be okay to be on the beach or in a park with a mask as long as I wasn't in the middle of the same crowd for long periods.  If there were others sitting 10 feet from me, I would be okay with, If am am just passing random people for a few hours, I am okay with that.  But something like a full stadium, i would not feel comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with other people.

I am not comfortable in a store or other enclosed space with others I don't  know without a mask.

and too many people will lie about being vaccinated so you can't trust them.  I would be more comfortable with 70% of eligible fully vaccinated to start with....with many more planning on getting it soon.

 If you are vaccinated I'm unsure why you are obsessed with others getting vaccinated.   It says right on the CDC site that they don't know if it prevents asymptomatic spread at all.  But being as educated as you are, I'm sure you already knew this.


BTW:  the CDC is about a year late on the mask mandate.  Anyone who is wearing maks outdoors at this point should check themselves into a mental facility.


terp said:

BTW:  the CDC is about a year late on the mask mandate.  Anyone who is wearing maks outdoors at this point should check themselves into a mental facility.

 yeah, ok. This isn't about outdoor masks.


terp said:

jmitw said:

too many people are becoming anti mask. i think CDC is just giving in to them to prevent full revolt.  If people would just grow up and get vaccinated, it may be okay.  There is no good excuse to not have 95-99% of people fully vaccinated.  There are legit issues such as allergy or a real psych disorder that makes someone too terrified to get the vax.  . Most of the anti vax people just refuse to educate themselves or are so stubborn about not giving into the government,, they won't get vaccinated to snub the government.

I would be okay to be on the beach or in a park with a mask as long as I wasn't in the middle of the same crowd for long periods.  If there were others sitting 10 feet from me, I would be okay with, If am am just passing random people for a few hours, I am okay with that.  But something like a full stadium, i would not feel comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with other people.

I am not comfortable in a store or other enclosed space with others I don't  know without a mask.

and too many people will lie about being vaccinated so you can't trust them.  I would be more comfortable with 70% of eligible fully vaccinated to start with....with many more planning on getting it soon.

 If you are vaccinated I'm unsure why you are obsessed with others getting vaccinated.   It says right on the CDC site that they don't know if it prevents asymptomatic spread at all.  But being as educated as you are, I'm sure you already knew this.

 anyone who is not ignorant knows having every vaccinated is better..OBVIOUSLY you can still get sick and die....but if you are in a room with 100 people...and everyone is vaccinated it reduces the risk of a break through as it is highly unlikely anyone there has it..

but if 40 people aren't vaccinated, there is a much higher chance one of them will have the virus....and an increased risk for a breakthrough


terp said:

 If you are vaccinated I'm unsure why you are obsessed with others getting vaccinated.   It says right on the CDC site that they don't know if it prevents asymptomatic spread at all.  But being as educated as you are, I'm sure you already knew this.

 I for one am not me-centered when it comes to the continuing spread of the virus and the resulting world-wide death toll.  I would like to see the spread of this virus reduced and eventually curtailed.  If encouraging others to get vaccinated (assuming they do not have a precluding medical condition), wear face coverings in public, maintain social distancing, and take basic hygiene precautions is going to help reduce spread in even a small way, I am all for it.  Even the me-centered should realize that with every non-vaccinated person, there is a rising probability of community spread, increased hosts for variants, increased pressure on our health care system, and the increased possibility that "I" could become debilitated from the disease.  


terp said:

BTW:  the CDC is about a year late on the mask mandate.  Anyone who is wearing maks outdoors at this point should check themselves into a mental facility.

 If being concerned for the welfare of others makes one a candidate for residence in a mental facility, there is something fundamentally wrong with a society that would set such a standard.


For unvaccinated people, there is still the "2 out of 3" guideline for masks outdoors. In most cases masks are not useful. But if for instance a bunch of unvaccinated people were sitting close together in the bleachers for a couple of hours at a ballgame, it would be prudent to wear masks. 



Still not understanding how masks are so onerous for people. I’m glad my medical professionals don’t feel that way.


terp said:

BTW:  the CDC is about a year late on the mask mandate.  Anyone who is wearing maks outdoors at this point should check themselves into a mental facility.

 Because then everyone around them will be wearing masks?


terp said:

BTW:  the CDC is about a year late on the mask mandate.  Anyone who is wearing maks outdoors at this point should check themselves into a mental facility.

No they are not. There are multiple studies that provide evidence that conversations outdoors with someone infected has passed the infection outdoors.

ETA: As a coach of an outdoor sport with chatty kids that like to sit close to their friends, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I let them all go maskless, and then an infection went through the team, through their homes, and out to others.


jmitw said:

terp said:

jmitw said:

too many people are becoming anti mask. i think CDC is just giving in to them to prevent full revolt.  If people would just grow up and get vaccinated, it may be okay.  There is no good excuse to not have 95-99% of people fully vaccinated.  There are legit issues such as allergy or a real psych disorder that makes someone too terrified to get the vax.  . Most of the anti vax people just refuse to educate themselves or are so stubborn about not giving into the government,, they won't get vaccinated to snub the government.

I would be okay to be on the beach or in a park with a mask as long as I wasn't in the middle of the same crowd for long periods.  If there were others sitting 10 feet from me, I would be okay with, If am am just passing random people for a few hours, I am okay with that.  But something like a full stadium, i would not feel comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with other people.

I am not comfortable in a store or other enclosed space with others I don't  know without a mask.

and too many people will lie about being vaccinated so you can't trust them.  I would be more comfortable with 70% of eligible fully vaccinated to start with....with many more planning on getting it soon.

 If you are vaccinated I'm unsure why you are obsessed with others getting vaccinated.   It says right on the CDC site that they don't know if it prevents asymptomatic spread at all.  But being as educated as you are, I'm sure you already knew this.

 anyone who is not ignorant knows having every vaccinated is better..OBVIOUSLY you can still get sick and die....but if you are in a room with 100 people...and everyone is vaccinated it reduces the risk of a break through as it is highly unlikely anyone there has it..

but if 40 people aren't vaccinated, there is a much higher chance one of them will have the virus....and an increased risk for a breakthrough

 It is possible that what you say is true.  There just isn't any science to back it up.  Also, these vaccines are very new.  They would not be approved for years in normal times.  We do not understand the long term risks and we are not tracking the side effects using the most modern and advanced systems we have.

The younger and healthier a person is the higher the risk of a vaccine side effect becomes against the risk of the actual virus.  For example, a healthy child's immune system offers more protection than the pharmaceutical companies claims regarding vaccine effectiveness. 


terp said:


The younger and healthier a person is the higher the risk of a vaccine side effect becomes against the risk of the actual virus.  For example, a healthy child's immune system offers more protection than the pharmaceutical companies claims regarding vaccine effectiveness. 

 horsesh!t. truly horsesh!t



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