Demolishing Homes In Maplewood

jimmurphy said:

It does not surprise me that you know the particulars in greater detail than I do. Especially given your background in government administration in NYC.

What does surprise me is that you do not see that the soccer and baseball and courts and school district and fire department statuses as what they are - means to achieve economies of scale or more efficiently use resources by combining, sharing, etc. The same things that would happen in combining the municipalities.

Speaking of NYC, the boroughs used to be separate cities, right?

I’ll leave the conversation as it is clear that nobody’s minds are particularly open on the subject, as is the case in most internet discussions.

Big opportunity just sitting there . It’ll happen in a couple of decades, I guess…

Shared recreation youth programming and SO's shared use of the Court Room at the Maplewood Police Station are just two examples of efficiencies we have been able to achieve without consolidation. The partnership Maplewood and South Orange have achieved over the years is commendable but we are going to need inter-municipality cooperation on a far more regional scale if we are going to see any real cost savings.  Combining with six other municipalities to get a more favorable rate for electricity is just one example of what we can accomplish if we plan regionally. 


You have to take the small steps as well as the big ones.  Who says merging these two towns is the end of the line?


mrincredible said:

kthnry said:

There are only three houses for sale in M/SO for less than $550,000, nothing under $460,000. Is that a problem? Can your kids afford to move here?

Well, she’s 14. And babysitting pays pretty well these days but she hasn’t saved the down payment yet. 
oh oh

When my wife and I were first married we could not afford a house in MapSO. We ended up buying a condo in Somerset County in 1996. It was only after we’d accumulated some equity through paying our mortgage and the price increase that we were able to buy a fixer-upper in Maplewood. 

My point is I don’t know how many people are able to buy their first home in these two towns. But I’ll agree to your point that housing prices have gotten very problematic in the last (fill in the blank) years. 

Back belatedly to this point... my kids harbor no illusions that they will automatically be able to to afford to live here.  They know that they have been raised in an upper-middle class community full of successful strivers and that they aren't being given "generational wealth" to live off of. They know that the decisions that they make about life and career may or may not lead them to live in a similar place, and that earning enough money to live in this bubble may or may not be one of their goals. 

We've tried (however imperfectly) to raise them not to have automatic upper-middle class tastes that their career choices may not support.  They've grown up with cars that we drive for 10 years, haircuts at SuperCuts, clothing from inexpensive places (excepting B'nai mitzvah clothes), vacations more modest than some of their peers, etc. (allowing us to stuff our 401Ks).  Right now (as late teens), they have no conception that a SOMA house might be what they want someday -- watching what it takes to maintain our aging money pits, I think they dream of lovely apartments.


OK, officially NOT cool.

Is this conforming?


jimmurphy said:

OK, officially NOT cool.

Is this conforming?

This building is huge. It's so tall and the roof will make it taller. It certainly doesn't conform with the neighborhood.


This will certainly be the tallest house in the area.  I can't find anywhere on the town site that provides residential building restrictions.


Formerlyjerseyjack said:

Did they get a variance?  

If they did, it's my understanding that houses around it would receive some notification and that didn't happen. 


If this is a concern to neighbors, contacting the building department and including a photo might be a good idea before the construction is finished.  That should provide a ruling from the town as to whether the structure is a permitted height for its location.


Appears to be in Zone R-1-5, which has a maximum building height of 35’ and eave height of 24’ and maximum of 2 stories. Seems non-compliant on all three.


they gotta be pushing the 35 ft limit-going to depend on the roof

its not like they are blocking my :water views"  but i was surprised to see the 3rd floor go up


But someone posted on FB that permits were posted.  The plans had to be reviewed before that could happen


DanDietrich said:

But someone posted on FB that permits were posted.  The plans had to be reviewed before that could happen

I read that too, but also saw that someone mentioned that just an HVAC permit was pulled.

Regardless, Dean Dafis is on it and promised an answer on Monday.

If it is conforming by some loophole, the loop should be tightened, or this will be repeated over and over if there is money to be made.


Thanks,jimmurphy. I live right near this building and it is so out of line with the neighborhood. If this is allowed ,it may start more teardowns and large monstrosities. We were never notified of anything and never saw any permits. It is being built very quickly. Glad that Dean Dafis is on  it.


Maybe the whole street should raise their roofs to fit in.  grin


Even if they put a flat roof on the house, the eave height is over 24 feet already. Anyone familiar with this house knows if it has a basement or crawl space? 


It has a basement.  

Let's say they go above the required height.  What's the repercussion - a fine?  The developer may have factored in that the value of the additional height will have a lot more value then any possible fine.

I suppose a flat roof would be possible


jamie said:

It has a basement.  

Let's say they go above the required height.  What's the repercussion - a fine?  The developer may have factored in that the value of the additional height will have a lot more value then any possible fine.

I suppose a flat roof would be possible

If they go above required height without notifying the town engineer, they will have to reduce the top floor to become an attic I think. They just can’t pull a stunt like that and expect to pass inspection. Maybe they got a variance, because it sure looks bigger than the rest of the houses in that neighborhood.


With today's smaller families you wonder why so many rooms are needed.  Also the driveway is very short. .Makes me wonder if they will tear up more yard for parking.


I've seen a lot of new construction with third floors and was told at some point that "two and a half" is allowed. I'm not sure what constitutes a "half story", but in and of itself the third floor is not really inconsistent in our towns. The majority of homes all around me (and mine) have finished attics, if not full third floors. (Older houses may be "grandfathered" from a zoning point of view, but it still begs the question of whether it is an objectionable inconsistency.)

Of course, if there's an attic level above that level, then that's another matter.


2 and a half stories translates as a dormer or equivalent on the third floor. Thus the living space on the third floor is considered to be half the living space on the lower two floors due to the slope of the roof.  During the last reval, a number of houses on my street were considered to be two and a half stories  because they have a bedroom (and possibly a bathroom) on the attic level.


Jaytee said:

If they go above required height without notifying the town engineer, they will have to reduce the top floor to become an attic I think. They just can’t pull a stunt like that and expect to pass inspection. Maybe they got a variance, because it sure looks bigger than the rest of the houses in that neighborhood.

a variance would have had a requirement to notify all within a200 foot radius 

Permits are required- no notice is needed for neighbors.  ( not just hvac).  So you have to surmise that they will not exceed the height limit 


oots said:

a variance would have had a requirement to notify all within a200 foot radius 

Permits are required- no notice is needed for neighbors.  ( not just hvac).  So you have to surmise that they will not exceed the height limit 

Yes, if this is somehow compliant, it doesn’t seem to be within the sprit of the ordinance.

Hope there is significant reflection, discussion, and subsequent action.


seems to me that they're currently at the old height.  So, there's a possibility that they go modern with a flat roof?  We don't have any rules on the book in regards to design.


jamie said:

seems to me that they're currently at the old height.  So, there's a possibility that they go modern with a flat roof?  We don't have any rules on the book in regards to design.

Or maybe just a crawl space up there for HVAC equipment and ductwork. Definitely not a walk up attic. By next week we will know for sure. 


Locally here in the midwest, houses in our similar older suburbs seem to be replaced (or supplemented?) by building to the maximum allowed footprint, with a full "cube" profile like that in the pic.  Flat or flattish roofs.  Not all of them look terrible, but not really harmonious either.  otoh some of our traditional/bungalow/Mediterranean areas already have Wright-ish and/or midcentury houses interspersed.


Weren’t we promised an answer on Monday?


He said he would look into it on Monday.  Give the guy a break.  It may take a day or two .


In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.