ConcernedStudent1950 ("CS1950") vs the Media
The prof was obnoxious and the crowd is wrong, but they do not have the power to "destroy the first amendment."
dave23 said:
The prof was obnoxious and the crowd is wrong, but they do not have the power to "destroy the first amendment."
The prof had to resign her faculty appointment today (right before she was going to be fired). She apologized. I posted the link somewhere earlier.
I believe she had a courtesy appointment w/ the school of journalism. She resigned from that position. I believe she is still an assistant professor in the Communications School.
mjh said:
dave23 said:The prof had to resign her faculty appointment today (right before she was going to be fired). She apologized. I posted the link somewhere earlier.
The prof was obnoxious and the crowd is wrong, but they do not have the power to "destroy the first amendment."
Apparently, Melissa Click merely resigned her courtesy appointment with the School of Journalism. According to the article linked below: "A courtesy appointment allows members of one academic unit to serve on graduate committees for students from other academic units. Click teaches mass media in the Communication Department. The School of Journalism is a separate entity."
Thus, it appears that Ms. Click continues to be a professor with the University's Communication Department despite attempting to incite a riot and intimidate a student in order to squelch 1st amendment rights.
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/higher_education/update-mu-faculty-member-resigns-courtesy-appointment-apologizes-for-photojournalist/article_6e2cedaa-87c7-11e5-ae63-87e5cacea580.html
dave23 said:
The prof was obnoxious and the crowd is wrong, but they do not have the power to "destroy the first amendment."
A "fundamental right" which cannot be exercised is a right in jeopardy. The behavior of CS1950 protesters set forth in the above video clip is part of what appears to be a systematic attempt at suppressing free speech at UMo (and other college campuses).
terp said:
I believe she had a courtesy appointment w/ the school of journalism. She resigned from that position. I believe she is still an assistant professor in the Communications School.
Well, give it time. She may be about to lose her position with the Communications School too. It's pretty clear she's in trouble.
Yes, the PC wars can be silly and even chilling at times. But calling someone the n word is protected by the First Amendment, as is people organizing to express their displeasure about the use of that word.
It's easy to dismiss the behavior of seemingly overzealous twentysomethings. It's also easy to use their seemingly ridiculous behavior to ignore the real problems they are trying to bring to light.
RealityForAll said:
dave23 said:A "fundamental right" which cannot be exercised is a right in jeopardy. The behavior of CS1950 protesters set forth in the above video clip is part of what appears to be a systematic attempt at suppressing free speech at UMo (and other college campuses).
The prof was obnoxious and the crowd is wrong, but they do not have the power to "destroy the first amendment."
I'm not sure why the photographer with his powerful telephoto lens felt the need to get in the faces of the students when he could simply have stepped back and easily have taken close-ups.
What kind of lens did he have?
Elle_Cee said:
I'm not sure why the photographer with his powerful telephoto lens felt the need to get in the faces of the students when he could simply have stepped back and easily have taken close-ups.
Certainly CS1950 didnt understand the significance of the media and the access they needed to be granted.
But my take away is not that there were emotions that were involved here or that some photographer wasnt granted access to photograph the event at the distance he wanted to, but rather that a very determined and well organized group of students is working to be treated as equals.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-wolfe-homecoming-parade_56402cc8e4b0307f2cadea10
the racist environment at this school, in this state, in this country needs to be addressed and faux outrage about 1st amendment rights of any reporters or photographer, doesnt address the reality of living in an environment hostile to your very existence.
I wonder if this is a "a systematic attempt at suppressing free speech at UMo (and other college campuses)."
Missouri University police arrest 19-year-old Hunter Park over threat to ‘shoot every black person I see’
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/missouri-university-police-arrest-suspect-who-threatened-to-shoot-every-black-person-i-see/
hoops said:
Certainly CS1950 didnt understand the significance of the media and the access they needed to be granted.
But my take away is not that there were emotions that were involved here or that some photographer wasnt granted access to photograph the event at the distance he wanted to, but rather that a very determined and well organized group of students is working to be treated as equals.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tim-wolfe-homecoming-parade_56402cc8e4b0307f2cadea10
the racist environment at this school, in this state, in this country needs to be addressed and faux outrage about 1st amendment rights of any reporters or photographer, doesnt address the reality of living in an environment hostile to your very existence.
My understanding of your position: the end justifies the means.
mjh said:
I wonder if this is a "a systematic attempt at suppressing free speech at UMo (and other college campuses)."
Missouri University police arrest 19-year-old Hunter Park over threat to ‘shoot every black person I see’
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/missouri-university-police-arrest-suspect-who-threatened-to-shoot-every-black-person-i-see/
Nice attempt at shifting focus. The actions of one looney are not the responsibility of any one group (unless you believe in collective guilt).
RealityForAll said:
mjh said:Nice attempt at shifting focus. The actions of one looney are not the responsibility of any one group (unless you believe in collective guilt).
I wonder if this is a "a systematic attempt at suppressing free speech at UMo (and other college campuses)."
Missouri University police arrest 19-year-old Hunter Park over threat to ‘shoot every black person I see’
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/missouri-university-police-arrest-suspect-who-threatened-to-shoot-every-black-person-i-see/
There sure are a lot of one looneys in the world.
Just like Prof. Melissa Click, the day after the video ConcernedStudent1950 affirmed the right of the media to cover the demonstrations. As Hoops theorized, emotions got carried away--but were reined in the day after. I'm sure many of us can relate.
Melissa Click is a friend of mine. I know her from having been in the same grad. program at UMass together for years. I do not know what happened to her there that day, but can say for a fact that her actions and words were not in keeping with her intellectual and political beliefs AT ALL.
I'd say she was coming from a place of high emotion, feeling empathy with the pain that the black students were experiencing, and she was acting the mother by being fiercely protective of her brood. That said, from a constitutional POV, her position is untenable and indefensible. It was a stupid thing to do, especially for a professor of Media Studies.
This breaks my heart because I know her as a warm, funny and highly intelligent person, and one not deserving of the hate being spewed against her. It was a f*ck-up. Period. And it has been very distressing to watch her life/career get decimated overnight.
I'm sharing two articles here that deserve a read, and point to the unfairness of making the two women professors at Yale and Mizzou Public Enemy#1.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/race-and-the-free-speech-diversion?intcid=mod-most-popular
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/11/theres-a-good-reason-protesters-at-the-university-of-missouri-didnt-want-the-media-around/?postshare=3771447255831104
That photographer is an admirable person. He has a job to do, understands his rights, and is polite. The rest of the cry bullies need to get back inside a classroom, fast.
it wasn't a powerful telephoto lens... the photographer was not the one getting into anyone's face. It was the protesters who were collectively getting into his face to try to intimidate and physically back him off.
mantram said:
Melissa Click is a friend of mine. I know her from having been in the same grad. program at UMass together for years. I do not know what happened to her there that day, but can say for a fact that her actions and words were not in keeping with her intellectual and political beliefs AT ALL.
I'd say she was coming from a place of high emotion, feeling empathy with the pain that the black students were experiencing, and she was acting the mother by being fiercely protective of her brood. That said, from a constitutional POV, her position is untenable and indefensible. It was a stupid thing to do, especially for a professor of Media Studies.
This breaks my heart because I know her as a warm, funny and highly intelligent person, and one not deserving of the hate being spewed against her. It was a f*ck-up. Period. And it has been very distressing to watch her life/career get decimated overnight.
I'm sharing two articles here that deserve a read, and point to the unfairness of making the two women professors at Yale and Mizzou Public Enemy#1.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/race-and-the-free-speech-diversion?intcid=mod-most-popular
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/11/theres-a-good-reason-protesters-at-the-university-of-missouri-didnt-want-the-media-around/?postshare=3771447255831104
I also don't think Click Should be Public Enemy #1, and I am not surprised to hear that she is a smart, caring person. Hey, we all lose perspective from time to time. We are emotional beings.
That being said, that video has some really bad optics for Professor Click. From where I sit, and given what I know, she has earned the right to be dismissed more than President Wolfe. She was really harassing a student who was just doing his job.
And I've got to say. I'm still not clear on why President Wolfe was fired. I know there were some racial incidents involving on and around campus, and they were clearly perpetrated by ignorant, deplorable people. But, I'm not sure what these events have to do with the University President. I do believe that he even introduced a mandatory diversity training class prior to all this.
I also don't think the First Amendment issue is a distraction from the Race issue as the New Yorker. People look at these events and self relate. I think some people will primarily relate to race issue, and some will relate to the Freedom of Speech issue.
That being said, I think many have identified a trend where these tactics of shaming people who disagree with you, micro-agressions, safe spaces, etc. in Colleges today. There are organizations focused on protecting Freedom of Speech at Colleges. I mean, this stuff has been parodied prior to these recent incidents. To wit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U
I think both are important issues. And you bet the students have a right to protest. Of that there is no doubt. But I am surprised to see people celebrate the football team deciding when its time for the President of the University to go. I'm a really big football fan, but I'm not sure that is the way to go.
It sucks that these students have to put up with racism. It really does. But, there is no University President anywhere who is going to solve this. There are ignorant, hateful cretins everywhere. The lesson these kids should learn is not to cower and look for a safe space or to shout others down. They should learn that when someone yells something like that at them, it is not a reflection on them. Rather it is a reflection on the ignorant ass who is doing the yelling.
There is no "need" that the media must be "granted." This is happening in a public space, open to all.
When people who are exercising their constitutional right to protest in a public space infringe on the constitutional right of the press to cover them (on the campus of one of the nation's top journalism schools), that's just clueless and shameful. In my opinion.
terp said:
... I think both are important issues. And you bet the students have a right to protest. Of that there is no doubt. But I am surprised to see people celebrate the football team deciding when its time for the President of the University to go. I'm a really big football fan, but I'm not sure that is the way to go.
It sucks that these students have to put up with racism. It really does. But, there is no University President anywhere who is going to solve this. There are ignorant, hateful cretins everywhere. The lesson these kids should learn is not to cower and look for a safe space or to shout others down. They should learn that when someone yells something like that at them, it is not a reflection on them. Rather it is a reflection on the ignorant ass who is doing the yelling.
I think you're missing a great deal here. I'm not sure if you're missing it because you've led a sheltered life or if you simply lack the capacity to imagine an environment other than the one in which you live. I mean no disrespect but thoughts like the one bolded above suggest a level of ignorance that is unfortunately all too typical of many well meaning folks who inadvertently support racism by looking to minimize it's effect.
Racism sucks? Really- no *****. Well, you're right it does suck and condoning it by suggesting that nothing can be done to combat it is wrongheaded and smacks of privilege. I know that sounds harsh but you must step away from what you've written and read your words out loud.
"The lesson these kids should learn is to not cower and look for a safe space or to shout others down"
Seems a little illogical to me- don't cower and look for a safe space (seek shelter and protection) or shout others down (defend your position). So, basically your suggestion is to stand up tall and allow others to disrespect you while remaining silent. Nothing more effective than suffering silently right? Quiet stoic, noble Black people resigned to and accepting of second class treatment because hey, that's just the way it is. Sounds to me like the perfect recipe for getting disrespected for the rest of your natural life. Would you suggest this to your own children? Stand up tall honey, don't defend yourself today and above all do not shout back at people who denigrate you.
What complete and utter bull*****.
The lesson these kids should learn is that nothing comes easy in this life and that weak minded racists who have been taught from birth that they are superior to you will always attempt to hold you down and back if you let them. Do Not Let Them. Fight for what you deserve and for what you've earned by any means available to you. Fight long and loud and when and if the situation calls for it- fight dirty. If you don't- you can count on being called and treated like a nigger for the rest of your life.
They should also know that the "cretins" you mention are emboldened by silence and acquiescence so providing that is never a solution.
They should also know that above all else, institutional racism is about power and power is about money. Racists don't care about your rights but they sure as hell care about money. College presidents don't make as much as winning football coaches (4mil v. 460K in this case) so, one is expendable the other is not.
They should do the math and then call their boy, the linebacker or the shooting guard and hit where it hurts.
"They should learn that when someone yells something like that at them, it is not a reflection on them...
Sticks and stones? This is wonderful advice for the skittish 5 year old and a kindergarten nemesis. It is not useful advice for a young adult who is being called nigger while paying thousands and thousands of dollars for an education.
"...Rather it is a reflection on the ignorant ass who is doing the yelling."
Actually it's a reflection on a nation that continues to nurture a disease that is eating it from the the inside out.
A drunk student yelled the N word at another student. I can't tell whether the actor in that incident was identified and a justice process within the university was initiated or not. Is the grievance that that second part did not happen?
Also, an unknown actor smeared feces on a wall to form a swastika. Is the grievance that they did not find out and bring to justice whoever did that?
It would be helpful if specific incidents of wrongs/crimes at the university, where the university failed to hold wrongdoer accountable -- it would be helpful if someone would just say them really plainly.
mantram said:
Melissa Click is a friend of mine. I know her from having been in the same grad. program at UMass together for years. I do not know what happened to her there that day, but can say for a fact that her actions and words were not in keeping with her intellectual and political beliefs AT ALL.
I'd say she was coming from a place of high emotion, feeling empathy with the pain that the black students were experiencing, and she was acting the mother by being fiercely protective of her brood. That said, from a constitutional POV, her position is untenable and indefensible. It was a stupid thing to do, especially for a professor of Media Studies.
This breaks my heart because I know her as a warm, funny and highly intelligent person, and one not deserving of the hate being spewed against her. It was a f*ck-up. Period. And it has been very distressing to watch her life/career get decimated overnight.
I'm sharing two articles here that deserve a read, and point to the unfairness of making the two women professors at Yale and Mizzou Public Enemy#1.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/race-and-the-free-speech-diversion?intcid=mod-most-popular
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/11/theres-a-good-reason-protesters-at-the-university-of-missouri-didnt-want-the-media-around/?postshare=3771447255831104
With due respect for your friendship with her, I'd suggest that in these sorts of moments you learn who someone really is- and it's not the representative they send to the classroom, office or dinner party.
In a moment where a young person was alone and deeply resented by a large group of people, she attempted to make them a mob, and she encouraged them to assault him physically.
That's who she is. She was in a moment of testing, and in a life time if we are lucky we'll only be tested a few times. Will I be brave? Will I shrink from the moment? Will I take what power I have been given in this moment and use it wisely or will I be a monster?
She has her answer, and if she has any self awareness she'll reflect on it, deeply, not just in terms of what it means for her career but what it means about her as a human being.
And unfortunately for her, because cameras are now everywhere, the whole world has their answer too.
dave23 said:
What kind of lens did he have?
Elle_Cee said:
I'm not sure why the photographer with his powerful telephoto lens felt the need to get in the faces of the students when he could simply have stepped back and easily have taken close-ups.
My iPhone could have captured them from a safe distance
Jackson_Fusion said:
mantram said:With due respect for your friendship with her, I'd suggest that in these sorts of moments you learn who someone really is- and it's not the representative they send to the classroom, office or dinner party.
Melissa Click is a friend of mine. I know her from having been in the same grad. program at UMass together for years. I do not know what happened to her there that day, but can say for a fact that her actions and words were not in keeping with her intellectual and political beliefs AT ALL.
I'd say she was coming from a place of high emotion, feeling empathy with the pain that the black students were experiencing, and she was acting the mother by being fiercely protective of her brood. That said, from a constitutional POV, her position is untenable and indefensible. It was a stupid thing to do, especially for a professor of Media Studies.
This breaks my heart because I know her as a warm, funny and highly intelligent person, and one not deserving of the hate being spewed against her. It was a f*ck-up. Period. And it has been very distressing to watch her life/career get decimated overnight.
I'm sharing two articles here that deserve a read, and point to the unfairness of making the two women professors at Yale and Mizzou Public Enemy#1.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/race-and-the-free-speech-diversion?intcid=mod-most-popular
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/11/theres-a-good-reason-protesters-at-the-university-of-missouri-didnt-want-the-media-around/?postshare=3771447255831104
In a moment where a young person was alone and deeply resented by a large group of people, she attempted to make them a mob, and she encouraged them to assault him physically.
That's who she is. She was in a moment of testing, and in a life time if we are lucky we'll only be tested a few times. Will I be brave? Will I shrink from the moment? Will I take what power I have been given in this moment and use it wisely or will I be a monster?
She has her answer, and if she has any self awareness she'll reflect on it, deeply, not just in terms of what it means for her career but what it means about her as a human being.
And unfortunately for her, because cameras are now everywhere, the whole world has their answer too.
Well said
flimbro said:
terp said:
... I think both are important issues. And you bet the students have a right to protest. Of that there is no doubt. But I am surprised to see people celebrate the football team deciding when its time for the President of the University to go. I'm a really big football fan, but I'm not sure that is the way to go.
It sucks that these students have to put up with racism. It really does. But, there is no University President anywhere who is going to solve this. There are ignorant, hateful cretins everywhere. The lesson these kids should learn is not to cower and look for a safe space or to shout others down. They should learn that when someone yells something like that at them, it is not a reflection on them. Rather it is a reflection on the ignorant ass who is doing the yelling.
I think you're missing a great deal here. I'm not sure if you're missing it because you've led a sheltered life or if you simply lack the capacity to imagine an environment other than the one in which you live. I mean no disrespect but thoughts like the one bolded above suggest a level of ignorance that is unfortunately all too typical of many well meaning folks who inadvertently support racism by looking to minimize it's effect.
Racism sucks? Really- no *****. Well, you're right it does suck and condoning it by suggesting that nothing can be done to combat it is wrongheaded and smacks of privilege. I know that sounds harsh but you must step away from what you've written and read your words out loud.
"The lesson these kids should learn is to not cower and look for a safe space or to shout others down"
Seems a little illogical to me- don't cower and look for a safe space (seek shelter and protection) or shout others down (defend your position). So, basically your suggestion is to stand up tall and allow others to disrespect you while remaining silent. Nothing more effective than suffering silently right? Quiet stoic, noble Black people resigned to and accepting of second class treatment because hey, that's just the way it is. Sounds to me like the perfect recipe for getting disrespected for the rest of your natural life. Would you suggest this to your own children? Stand up tall honey, don't defend yourself today and above all do not shout back at people who denigrate you.
What complete and utter bull*****.
The lesson these kids should learn is that nothing comes easy in this life and that weak minded racists who have been taught from birth that they are superior to you will always attempt to hold you down and back if you let them. Do Not Let Them. Fight for what you deserve and for what you've earned by any means available to you. Fight long and loud and when and if the situation calls for it- fight dirty. If you don't- you can count on being called and treated like a nigger for the rest of your life.
They should also know that the "cretins" you mention are emboldened by silence and acquiescence so providing that is never a solution.
They should also know that above all else, institutional racism is about power and power is about money. Racists don't care about your rights but they sure as hell care about money. College presidents don't make as much as winning football coaches (4mil v. 460K in this case) so, one is expendable the other is not.
They should do the math and then call their boy, the linebacker or the shooting guard and hit where it hurts.
"They should learn that when someone yells something like that at them, it is not a reflection on them...
Sticks and stones? This is wonderful advice for the skittish 5 year old and a kindergarten nemesis. It is not useful advice for a young adult who is being called nigger while paying thousands and thousands of dollars for an education.
"...Rather it is a reflection on the ignorant ass who is doing the yelling."
Actually it's a reflection on a nation that continues to nurture a disease that is eating it from the the inside out.
Incredibly well said
breal said:
A drunk student yelled the N word at another student. I can't tell whether the actor in that incident was identified and a justice process within the university was initiated or not. Is the grievance that that second part did not happen?
Also, an unknown actor smeared feces on a wall to form a swastika. Is the grievance that they did not find out and bring to justice whoever did that?
It would be helpful if specific incidents of wrongs/crimes at the university, where the university failed to hold wrongdoer accountable -- it would be helpful if someone would just say them really plainly.
Here's a presentation from faculty and students.
https://vimeopro.com/mizzouvideo/racerelations/video/143048173
what creeped me out was how many times I heard the protesters scream about invading their personal space. And I hardly watched any of the video yet.
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This clip of the CS1950 protesters' response to a photographer is quite incredible. The student photographer does an incredibly great job in keeping his cool despite the abuse he is receiving. Link follows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S3yMzEee18
At about 6:00 minute mark the crowd claims that the photog is pushing them. Clearly, this is a "1984" moment (where the victim is accused of being the perpetrator with it all being accomplished by subverting the language). The behavior of the CS1950 protesters is patently offensive in their attempt to destroy the first amendment.