College Admissions Scandal

tjohn
conandrob240 said:
if a rich kid were going to wind up in a family business or with preferential career placement anyway, what difference did it really make where they went to school?

 Indeed.  Look at the foul Trump brood.


j_r
Red_Barchetta said:



tjohn said:

j_r said:
On CNN this morning, Asha Rangapaa made the interesting point that there are three categories of harm: Qualified applicants who were displaced by the cheaters; the universities, whose degrees have been devalued through association this scheme; and students in the future who, believing the system is hopelessly rigged, will be discouraged from ever applying to some of these schools.
 Cool.  Does that mean that the perps could be sued for damages?
 How can any of that be quantified?

 I don't see any reason that any of that needs to be quantified; I simply thought that it was a nuanced way to frame her position. (These schools' waiting lists are one way to measure; application numbers might at some future point be another.) 

To your larger point, paying a proctor to tamper with answers or take the ACT or SAT outright is clearly fraud, if proven. I don't think we need to accept one kind of corruption simply because other kinds exist. And jail time for education-related racketeering is not unheard of.

And perhaps this will help bring to an end the ridiculous US News-style "rankings," which put a premium on high test scores.  (as if . . . ) 


tjohn

I have less of a problem with the case that Daddy buys a building to get his kids in than I do with explicit fraud.  At least all students benefit.  In any case, I don't think we will ever get to a point where the wealthy can't purchase some advantages for their kids.



susan1014
j_r said:
On CNN this morning, Asha Rangapaa made the interesting point that there are three categories of harm: Qualified applicants who were displaced by the cheaters; the universities, whose degrees have been devalued through association this scheme; and students in the future who, believing the system is hopelessly rigged, will be discouraged from ever applying to some of these schools.

 A fourth class of harm is anyone who is invested is some of the companies owned by the accused (I’ve just been informed that my late MIL was invested in one, which has dropped significantly, so we are included in this class!)


mjc

DaveSchmidt (?) cites:  "Self Awareness Test and the MPATHs"

And this gives me a few minutes of so-welcome relief from the many varieties dreck currently in the news.


Tom_Reingold

Shouldn't libertarians be happy about this practice? Because, free markets, right? Money is speech.


nohero
conandrob240 said:
if a rich kid were going to wind up in a family business or with preferential career placement anyway, what difference did it really make where they went to school?

It's not for the kids, it's for the parents.  It's another way the parents "keep score", that they're doing better than others.


bub
nohero said:


conandrob240 said:
if a rich kid were going to wind up in a family business or with preferential career placement anyway, what difference did it really make where they went to school?
It's not for the kids, it's for the parents.  It's another way the parents "keep score", that they're doing better than others.

 expensive, criminal fraud for the sake of bragging.


conandrob240
nohero said:
It's not for the kids, it's for the parents.  It's another way the parents "keep score", that they're doing better than others.

 Yup. 


bub
tjohn said:
And so it begins...


https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/us/college-admissions-scheme-lawsuit-class-action/index.html

 Putting my lawyer hat on, I have real doubts about the viability of claims like this.  


mrincredible

With everything else going on in the world this issue is what occupies the top spot on Fox News' website. Right above attacking their favorite Muslim Congresswoman. 


ctrzaska
j_r said:
On CNN this morning, Asha Rangapaa made the interesting point that there are three categories of harm: Qualified applicants who were displaced by the cheaters; the universities, whose degrees have been devalued through association this scheme; and students in the future who, believing the system is hopelessly rigged, will be discouraged from ever applying to some of these schools.

Given the size of the classes, the size of the applicant pools, and that of those involved here, and also that none of this involved work done for the after the fact... I highly doubt #s 2 and 3 will even register a blip. 


bub

Also don't think there will be the slightest blip downward in applications at any of these schools.  Kids want to go to these schools.  The fact that powerful cheaters have been found out and put in the crosshairs of criminal prosecution should, if anything, offer encouragement.


yahooyahoo

I doubt the schools will do it, but every single kid involved should be booted if they are still enrolled. Even if they didn't know.  This would be a far better deterrent than just slapping mommy and daddy on the wrist.


tjohn
yahooyahoo said:
I doubt the schools will do it, but every single kid involved should be booted if they are still enrolled. Even if they didn't know.  This would be a far better deterrent than just slapping mommy and daddy on the wrist.

For what it is worth, I think each kid of these parents is going through a mild version of Hell right now.


bub
yahooyahoo said:
I doubt the schools will do it, but every single kid involved should be booted if they are still enrolled. Even if they didn't know.  This would be a far better deterrent than just slapping mommy and daddy on the wrist.

 This has been my thought too even though it seems harsh with respect to students ignorant of their parents' actions (of course any kid with academic numbers way below the normal acceptance range for a selective college has to be a little suspicious, no?).  The ideal of social mobility and meritocracy is just too important.  It's enough that privileged kids get the open, legal advantages of their background.  Cheating like this must be deterred.


ml1
mrincredible said:
With everything else going on in the world this issue is what occupies the top spot on Fox News' website. Right above attacking their favorite Muslim Congresswoman. 

 the right wingers seem convinced all the offenders are "leftists."  I saw the list of the accused with their professions listed and I'm not seeing how anyone can determine their politics from that.  Two of them are actors, but to my knowledge Lori Laughlin has been a very outspoken Christian.  That doesn't necessarily mean she's conservative either, but it also doesn't fit the stereotype of a "Hollywood liberal" either.


BG9
yahooyahoo said:
I doubt the schools will do it, but every single kid involved should be booted if they are still enrolled. Even if they didn't know.  This would be a far better deterrent than just slapping mommy and daddy on the wrist.

Why should the innocent be booted? Do we want to visit the sins of the parents upon their children?

Let them remain. If they're not capable they can be booted should they not meet the schools required academic standard.


yahooyahoo
BG9 said:

Why should the innocent be booted? 

They were admitted based on fraudulent/forged information.


yahooyahoo
tjohn said:


yahooyahoo said:
I doubt the schools will do it, but every single kid involved should be booted if they are still enrolled. Even if they didn't know.  This would be a far better deterrent than just slapping mommy and daddy on the wrist.
For what it is worth, I think each kid of these parents is going through a mild version of Hell right now.

If hell is leaving your vacation on a private yacht in the Bahamas early, then so be it.


bub

They may be ignorant but as YY said, they are the beneficiaries of a benefit procured by false pretenses.  They got something they did not deserve and would not have obtained but for fraud.



tjohn
yahooyahoo said:


tjohn said:

yahooyahoo said:
I doubt the schools will do it, but every single kid involved should be booted if they are still enrolled. Even if they didn't know.  This would be a far better deterrent than just slapping mommy and daddy on the wrist.
For what it is worth, I think each kid of these parents is going through a mild version of Hell right now.
If hell is leaving your vacation on a private yacht in the Bahamas early, then so be it.

Whether you are rich or poor, being the target of hate posts on social media has got to be awful.  Whether or not they are expelled from their college not withstanding, they are being punished for the crime their parents committed.


nohero

I know this doesn't apply to (most) folks on this message board, but I suspect that many of the people saying "Don't punish these students for what their parents did" have no problem with deporting Dreamers.


mrincredible

Maybe make the students involved have to reapply as if they were transfer students. 


sprout
ml1 said:
 the right wingers seem convinced all the offenders are "leftists."  I saw the list of the accused with their professions listed and I'm not seeing how anyone can determine their politics from that.  Two of them are actors, but to my knowledge Lori Laughlin has been a very outspoken Christian.  That doesn't necessarily mean she's conservative either, but it also doesn't fit the stereotype of a "Hollywood liberal" either.

Political donations are listed on HuffPo:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/political-donors-college-admissions-scandal_n_5c883861e4b0fbd7661ed2fb

This scandal appears to include supporters of Democrats as well as Republicans -- with some donors giving to both parties. 


bub

Each case will have differences.  I would have no trouble throwing out a student who, like the dopey daughter of one of the celebs, went on line last year to proudly announce that she had no interest in class, just partying. 


ml1
sprout said:


ml1 said:
 the right wingers seem convinced all the offenders are "leftists."  I saw the list of the accused with their professions listed and I'm not seeing how anyone can determine their politics from that.  Two of them are actors, but to my knowledge Lori Laughlin has been a very outspoken Christian.  That doesn't necessarily mean she's conservative either, but it also doesn't fit the stereotype of a "Hollywood liberal" either.
Political donations are listed on HuffPo:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/political-donors-college-admissions-scandal_n_5c883861e4b0fbd7661ed2fb

This scandal appears to include supporters of Democrats as well as Republicans -- with some donors giving to both parties. 

I would tend to doubt that a single one of them is really a progressive of the AOC/Sanders variety.  Which is the accusation I was seeing right wingers making on FB.


mrincredible
bub said:
Each case will have differences.  I would have no trouble throwing out a student who, like the dopey daughter of one of the celebs, went on line last year to proudly announce that she had no interest in class, just partying. 

 Hence my comment about making someone like that reapply as a transfer student.  If she was true to her word and has a 1.9 GPA none of these schools would accept her as a transfer.

On the other hand maybe some of these kids have been working hard, carrying high grades and being involved in meaningful extracurricular activities.  If they were unaware of how they got in and proved themselves worthy, should they get another chance?



nohero

Apparently, one of the Dad's ratted out his daughter and the whole scheme, to try to get out from another criminal charge.

The tip that triggered the investigation into the largest alleged collegiate entrance scam ever prosecuted came from a financial executive's last-ditch effort to squirm out of the crosshairs of federal authorities, a law enforcement official tells CNN.

The executive, identified by the Wall Street Journal as Morrie Tobin, was being investigated as part of a separate financial fraud case and gave investigators enough information that they were able to identify William Rick Singer as the mastermind of the plot, the official said.

Tobin faced two charges of securities fraud for his role in a pump-and-dump scheme involving the manipulation of stock from two companies he secretly owned. The Securities and Exchange Commission said the stock from both of those companies was artificially inflated for Tobin's own profit.

He told investigators that Rudolph "Rudy" Meredith, the head women's soccer coach at Yale University, had sought a bribe in return for getting his daughter into the Ivy League school, the Wall Street Journal reported.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/us/college-cheating-scam-how-authorities-found-out/



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